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One interesting thing about these shares that hasn't been confirmed as far as I can tell is that they were rumored to have been used as collateral for loans FTX

One interesting thing about these shares that hasn't been confirmed as far as I can tell is that they were rumored to have been used as collateral for loans FTX took out. If this is true, then someone else(Genesis) has a $500M hole in their balance sheet due to this. Which will lead to knock on issues, just like how Luna -> 3AC -> Celsius and Voyager -> FTX In additional knock on effects, the US sized about $100M of crypto assets from FTX that Silvergate bank was holding. This put more stress on Silvergate bank that was already in alot of trouble over their loans and shrinking crypto assets. Based on the Government asking Silvergate for the HOOD shares and $8B in customer withdrawals they've gotten, they're down almost 50% today alone. We'll probably see someone acquire them for nothing or we'll have a bank failure pretty soon. Almost certainly people like Elizabeth Warren will use this to show that crypto is having a spill on effect to the real world economy and therefore should be under their regulatory control

rhacker 4y ago
Without regulation, it's just a huge casino. Then again, it's not really possible to regulate.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > it's not really possible to regulate Hell of a lot easier than cash.
  - etothepii 4y ago
    This is both true and not true. Cash is notionally untraceable but try moving $10m in cash illegally for less than 10% fee, and good luck buying anything if that cash represents a sizeable portion of your legitimate net worth.
    - LarryMullins 4y ago
      > Cash is notionally untraceable but try moving $10m in cash illegally for less than 10% fee, That's easy if you can tolerate risk; just put it in the back of a u-haul and obey the speed limit. Of course if the "cash" is actually a number in a bank account, not actual cash, then it's not so easy.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - etothepii 4y ago
        In this context "moving" was intended to mean from one person to another not within one country.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      Yep. Most people do not believe me, when I tell them that having even 10k USD on their person is asking for trouble. Sometimes I wonder if people understand the world they operate in. Then I remember more and more people pay with plastic or phone and it kinda starts to click.
- user3939382 4y ago
  It can easily be regulated. Enforcement is a different issue. The reason I’m not set for life is because when I discovered bitcoin at $0.25 my immediate reaction that the banking cartel that runs the world would get it regulated out of existence the second it got on their radar. In the long run I’m probably right but I could have made out in the meantime.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    > The reason I’m not set for life is because when I discovered bitcoin at $0.25 my immediate reaction that the banking cartel that runs the world would get it regulated out of existence the second it got on their radar. I think about this too, but I'm conservative enough that I would not held onto (all) BTC as it went past $1000, so I suspect my gains would have been large relative to my investment, but not life-changing.
    - dec0dedab0de 4y ago
      I think about this too, but I'm conservative enough that I would not held onto (all) BTC as it went past $1000, so I suspect my gains would have been large relative to my investment, but not life-changing. I tell myself the same thing, except I would have sold at $100
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  If crypto becomes regulated (and actively enforced!), the whole thing will crater. There is absolutely no point to crypto besides being used as a way to bypass regulation. With regulation, crypto is a completely boring pseudo-investment. But hey, maybe I’m wrong and regulation will be a positive for crypto. I doubt it very much though.
faangiq 4y ago
It’s all a huge ponzi. When exiting a ponzi if you’re not first, you’re last.
- CyberDildonics 4y ago
  What if you're second and there are more than two people?
  - _boffin_ 4y ago
    Be hopeful you were one of the first to get in so you’re still in the green.
lordfrito 4y ago
Popcorn time. Is it wrong that I'm smiling?
- smcl 4y ago
  A few irritating people will get a moment of being shamed in public and a large amount of people ranging from "stay poor" cryptobros to naive people swayed by shiny advertising will lose a lot of money. Just savour the moment the SBFs and the CZs of the world get their just deserts and pray that it isn't the first domino of a bigger problem that spreads outside crypto
  - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
    The people I feel worst about are friends and family of someone with some tech credentials that convinced them all to jump in. You can say these people should have vetted their investment but that's being a bit absurd. Media has been blasting stories about crypto successes uncritically for a couple years now. Some of the most high profile investors in the world are in all this. And on top of that, for our elderly relative, the young tech relative is exactly the person they ask for help in evaluating this investment opportunity. So you can say they shouldn't have invested if they weren't 100% certain, but again I think that's just denying the reality of things.
    - lordfrito 4y ago
      Plenty of people were saying crypto was nonsense for a long time. Yeah it sucks average Joe's got suckered. I feel the pain. But every generation brings a new group of greedy people that fall for get rich quick schemes, and they all usually learn there ain't no thing as a free ride the hard way. People like this won't listen to the warnings. "Have fun staying poor". I'm sorry there's collateral damage. But people like this are going to get conned somewhere. Best these people learn a lesson, then they can be smarter with the rest of their lives. Yeah, the media was all hype. Well guess what, the media isn't reality folks. And they're certainly not looking out for you. More timeless lessons to learn. Be careful who you trust. Keep the government away from money!! Hey FBI someone stole my bitcoins! So much old wisdom being re-learned right now. It's about time. The longer this was going to go on the more people were gonna get hurt.
jagthebeetle 4y ago
Financial Times reported on Silvergate's disclosure of $8.1B in withdrawals [1], but curiously, don't mention a $100M seizure. Is this new / verified? [1]: https://www.ft.com/content/69cd8629-278d-4cd5-a3e7-96d2f6c85f34 https://www.ft.com/content/69cd8629-278d-4cd5-a3e7-96d2f6c85...
- snypher 4y ago
  https://tokenist.com/judge-orders-seizure-of-ftxs-silvergate-balance-as-doj-takes-alamedas-hood/ https://tokenist.com/judge-orders-seizure-of-ftxs-silvergate... I believe there is also a WSJ source but I cannot login there.
shuntress 4y ago
Crypto is as much a part of the "real world" as anything else. Like everything else in the real world, we need to decide at a societal level how we want to use it then regulate that use with "regulatory control".
- r00fus 4y ago
  > Crypto is as much a part of the "real world" as anything else. I disagree. It's tulip mania all over again and serves only to facilitate corruption and fraud. Name any single legit use cases that are more than 20% of transactions.
  - JacobThreeThree 4y ago
    Purchasing crypto as an investment asset is the primary use case. Just because this asset was part of a speculative bubble, doesn't mean it's a fraudulent or corrupt asset.
    - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
      Investment implies some sort of earnings. Otherwise it’s just speculation on prices rising. People invest in businesses, and speculate on commodities.
      - JacobThreeThree 4y ago
        You can invest in any asset for speculative reasons, not just commodities.
  - shuntress 4y ago
    What I meant by that is that laws and regulations still apply. Crypto exchanges are not exempt from society just because they are online. And it's not only corruption and fraud. That implies some level of intent. I'm sure more than 20% of transactions are honest day traders just trying to make a quick buck before the speculation collapses.
1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
"Almost certainly people like Elizabeth Warren will use this to show that crypto is having a spill on effect to the real world economoy and therefore should be under their regulatory control." Under this analysis one could argue that Madoff was having no effect on the "real world economy" so his conduct should not have been regulated. His "advisory service" made zero investments. All he did was accept money from clients, spend it on himself, his family, his employees and charitable donations. His advisory service was arguably "disconnected" from the real world economy. For example, when the real world economy was going into a "meltdown", when Madoff knew he could not pay all of his clients' withdrawals, he wanted to use the limited funds he did have in the Ponzi account to give bonuses to his sons.^1 It was the real world economy, i.e., the 2008 conditions, that ultimately brought Madoff down. 1. That tipped them off, they discovered the fraud and once they knew about it, they had to turn him in or else risk facing criminal charges themselves. One of them later committed suicide, the other died of cancer. Madoff was not buried as is customary for his faith. He was cremated and his family refused to accept the ashes. They are allegedly in his lawyer's office. How will SBF's family react to what he has done if and when all the facts are revealed. Unlike Madoff's family it seems like they knew what he was doing. Time will tell.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
  To be fair, Madoff did send out fabricated account statements impact printed on green bar continuous form paper. Likewise, FTX probably provided its customers with an impressive "user interface" and "user experience". With respect to Madoff, clients thought it was an investment fund, outsiders thought it was a hedge fund, while it was actually no such thing. Whereas with respect to FTX, customers thought it was a "futures exchange", not conduit into a hedge fund.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> One interesting thing about these shares that hasn't been confirmed as far as I can tell is that they were rumored to have been used as collateral for loans FTX took out. FTX in the broad sense (Alameda borrowing from BlockFi, specifically), which is why SBF (who nominally owned the shares), FTX (from whom SBF appears to have “borrowed” the purchase funds), and BlockFi were in litigation over ownership of the shares, as I understand it.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
  "FTX (from whom SBF appears to have "borrowed" the purchase funds)" The funds to purchase the Robinhood shares were borrowed from Alameda, according to this SBF affidavit https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njb.1094107/gov.uscourts.njb.1094107.19.7.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njb.109...
coffeebeqn 4y ago
Silvergate is basically banking for all the crypto companies. Probably as big if a deal if not bigger than tether going down
- AustinDev 4y ago
  This won’t effect bitcoin though.
tr_user 4y ago
Some would argue that being regulated gives credibility and the better thing is no regulation beyond Buyer Beware.
- scrubs 4y ago
  I feel like recognizing crypto giving it some sort of official provenance from the real world (fed, sec, irs, FINRA) is a net harm. Certainly genisis/Gemini/miners/etc would benefit but I think this ill placed legitimacy will just end up bilking end users. I recommend against. I def agree with parent,: buyer beware. There's no guarantees; not insured, and no recourse for the most part if you are hacked

rhacker 4y ago

Without regulation, it's just a huge casino. Then again, it's not really possible to regulate.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> it's not really possible to regulate Hell of a lot easier than cash.
- etothepii 4y ago
  This is both true and not true. Cash is notionally untraceable but try moving $10m in cash illegally for less than 10% fee, and good luck buying anything if that cash represents a sizeable portion of your legitimate net worth.
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    > Cash is notionally untraceable but try moving $10m in cash illegally for less than 10% fee, That's easy if you can tolerate risk; just put it in the back of a u-haul and obey the speed limit. Of course if the "cash" is actually a number in a bank account, not actual cash, then it's not so easy.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - etothepii 4y ago
      In this context "moving" was intended to mean from one person to another not within one country.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    Yep. Most people do not believe me, when I tell them that having even 10k USD on their person is asking for trouble. Sometimes I wonder if people understand the world they operate in. Then I remember more and more people pay with plastic or phone and it kinda starts to click.
user3939382 4y ago
It can easily be regulated. Enforcement is a different issue. The reason I’m not set for life is because when I discovered bitcoin at $0.25 my immediate reaction that the banking cartel that runs the world would get it regulated out of existence the second it got on their radar. In the long run I’m probably right but I could have made out in the meantime.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > The reason I’m not set for life is because when I discovered bitcoin at $0.25 my immediate reaction that the banking cartel that runs the world would get it regulated out of existence the second it got on their radar. I think about this too, but I'm conservative enough that I would not held onto (all) BTC as it went past $1000, so I suspect my gains would have been large relative to my investment, but not life-changing.
  - dec0dedab0de 4y ago
    I think about this too, but I'm conservative enough that I would not held onto (all) BTC as it went past $1000, so I suspect my gains would have been large relative to my investment, but not life-changing. I tell myself the same thing, except I would have sold at $100
spookthesunset 4y ago
If crypto becomes regulated (and actively enforced!), the whole thing will crater. There is absolutely no point to crypto besides being used as a way to bypass regulation. With regulation, crypto is a completely boring pseudo-investment. But hey, maybe I’m wrong and regulation will be a positive for crypto. I doubt it very much though.

faangiq 4y ago

It’s all a huge ponzi. When exiting a ponzi if you’re not first, you’re last.

CyberDildonics 4y ago
What if you're second and there are more than two people?
- _boffin_ 4y ago
  Be hopeful you were one of the first to get in so you’re still in the green.

lordfrito 4y ago

Popcorn time. Is it wrong that I'm smiling?

smcl 4y ago
A few irritating people will get a moment of being shamed in public and a large amount of people ranging from "stay poor" cryptobros to naive people swayed by shiny advertising will lose a lot of money. Just savour the moment the SBFs and the CZs of the world get their just deserts and pray that it isn't the first domino of a bigger problem that spreads outside crypto
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  The people I feel worst about are friends and family of someone with some tech credentials that convinced them all to jump in. You can say these people should have vetted their investment but that's being a bit absurd. Media has been blasting stories about crypto successes uncritically for a couple years now. Some of the most high profile investors in the world are in all this. And on top of that, for our elderly relative, the young tech relative is exactly the person they ask for help in evaluating this investment opportunity. So you can say they shouldn't have invested if they weren't 100% certain, but again I think that's just denying the reality of things.
  - lordfrito 4y ago
    Plenty of people were saying crypto was nonsense for a long time. Yeah it sucks average Joe's got suckered. I feel the pain. But every generation brings a new group of greedy people that fall for get rich quick schemes, and they all usually learn there ain't no thing as a free ride the hard way. People like this won't listen to the warnings. "Have fun staying poor". I'm sorry there's collateral damage. But people like this are going to get conned somewhere. Best these people learn a lesson, then they can be smarter with the rest of their lives. Yeah, the media was all hype. Well guess what, the media isn't reality folks. And they're certainly not looking out for you. More timeless lessons to learn. Be careful who you trust. Keep the government away from money!! Hey FBI someone stole my bitcoins! So much old wisdom being re-learned right now. It's about time. The longer this was going to go on the more people were gonna get hurt.

jagthebeetle 4y ago

Financial Times reported on Silvergate's disclosure of $8.1B in withdrawals [1], but curiously, don't mention a $100M seizure. Is this new / verified? [1]: https://www.ft.com/content/69cd8629-278d-4cd5-a3e7-96d2f6c85f34 https://www.ft.com/content/69cd8629-278d-4cd5-a3e7-96d2f6c85...

snypher 4y ago
https://tokenist.com/judge-orders-seizure-of-ftxs-silvergate-balance-as-doj-takes-alamedas-hood/ https://tokenist.com/judge-orders-seizure-of-ftxs-silvergate... I believe there is also a WSJ source but I cannot login there.

shuntress 4y ago

Crypto is as much a part of the "real world" as anything else. Like everything else in the real world, we need to decide at a societal level how we want to use it then regulate that use with "regulatory control".

r00fus 4y ago
> Crypto is as much a part of the "real world" as anything else. I disagree. It's tulip mania all over again and serves only to facilitate corruption and fraud. Name any single legit use cases that are more than 20% of transactions.
- JacobThreeThree 4y ago
  Purchasing crypto as an investment asset is the primary use case. Just because this asset was part of a speculative bubble, doesn't mean it's a fraudulent or corrupt asset.
  - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    Investment implies some sort of earnings. Otherwise it’s just speculation on prices rising. People invest in businesses, and speculate on commodities.
    - JacobThreeThree 4y ago
      You can invest in any asset for speculative reasons, not just commodities.
- shuntress 4y ago
  What I meant by that is that laws and regulations still apply. Crypto exchanges are not exempt from society just because they are online. And it's not only corruption and fraud. That implies some level of intent. I'm sure more than 20% of transactions are honest day traders just trying to make a quick buck before the speculation collapses.

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago

"Almost certainly people like Elizabeth Warren will use this to show that crypto is having a spill on effect to the real world economoy and therefore should be under their regulatory control." Under this analysis one could argue that Madoff was having no effect on the "real world economy" so his conduct should not have been regulated. His "advisory service" made zero investments. All he did was accept money from clients, spend it on himself, his family, his employees and charitable donations. His advisory service was arguably "disconnected" from the real world economy. For example, when the real world economy was going into a "meltdown", when Madoff knew he could not pay all of his clients' withdrawals, he wanted to use the limited funds he did have in the Ponzi account to give bonuses to his sons.^1 It was the real world economy, i.e., the 2008 conditions, that ultimately brought Madoff down. 1. That tipped them off, they discovered the fraud and once they knew about it, they had to turn him in or else risk facing criminal charges themselves. One of them later committed suicide, the other died of cancer. Madoff was not buried as is customary for his faith. He was cremated and his family refused to accept the ashes. They are allegedly in his lawyer's office. How will SBF's family react to what he has done if and when all the facts are revealed. Unlike Madoff's family it seems like they knew what he was doing. Time will tell.

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
To be fair, Madoff did send out fabricated account statements impact printed on green bar continuous form paper. Likewise, FTX probably provided its customers with an impressive "user interface" and "user experience". With respect to Madoff, clients thought it was an investment fund, outsiders thought it was a hedge fund, while it was actually no such thing. Whereas with respect to FTX, customers thought it was a "futures exchange", not conduit into a hedge fund.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> One interesting thing about these shares that hasn't been confirmed as far as I can tell is that they were rumored to have been used as collateral for loans FTX took out. FTX in the broad sense (Alameda borrowing from BlockFi, specifically), which is why SBF (who nominally owned the shares), FTX (from whom SBF appears to have “borrowed” the purchase funds), and BlockFi were in litigation over ownership of the shares, as I understand it.

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
"FTX (from whom SBF appears to have "borrowed" the purchase funds)" The funds to purchase the Robinhood shares were borrowed from Alameda, according to this SBF affidavit https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njb.1094107/gov.uscourts.njb.1094107.19.7.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.njb.109...

coffeebeqn 4y ago

Silvergate is basically banking for all the crypto companies. Probably as big if a deal if not bigger than tether going down

AustinDev 4y ago
This won’t effect bitcoin though.

tr_user 4y ago

Some would argue that being regulated gives credibility and the better thing is no regulation beyond Buyer Beware.

scrubs 4y ago
I feel like recognizing crypto giving it some sort of official provenance from the real world (fed, sec, irs, FINRA) is a net harm. Certainly genisis/Gemini/miners/etc would benefit but I think this ill placed legitimacy will just end up bilking end users. I recommend against. I def agree with parent,: buyer beware. There's no guarantees; not insured, and no recourse for the most part if you are hacked