7 ms·

> Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance None of that is why Tesla was ahead of everyone for so long. It's because their cars hav

> Minimalistic interiors, modern infotainment, mobile app performance None of that is why Tesla was ahead of everyone for so long. It's because their cars have better range, and Tesla is still the range leader. They held four of the top six spots in 2022, and the number one is the Lucid Air (only 3k of them have actually been sold): https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/g32634624/ev-longest-driving-range/ https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/g32634624/ev-lo... Also, I just want to say I am categorically not an Elon or Tesla fanboi and I am rooting for other brands to meet and exceed their range performance.

tshaddox 4y ago
Is it really that simple? Is there something about Tesla’s technology that enables longer ranges? Surely they just put in bigger batteries and charge more for the car, and competitors could also do that if it was really a primary competitive advantage of Teslas.
- l33tman 4y ago
  Many of the competitors are STILL building on an ICE chassis and stuff batteries where the center axle would have been etc. When enough of them finally switch to pure EV platforms things will quickly improve I guess. But designing a new chassis that behave as well as their previous premium models, is not something they do in 1 year so it makes sense there is some delay.. The competitors also charge much less quickly, so there's some optimization there that they lack. Like, on paper they can do 250 kW but you never get more than 100 when actually charging it etc
  - hef19898 4y ago
    And they basically all did develop EV platforms, probably the main reason it took them as long to catch up as it did. But now that they have them, the benefits coming from those platforms are just enormous.
  - NickM 4y ago
    Like, on paper they can do 250 kW but you never get more than 100 when actually charging it etc Yeah this is one area where there's a lot of deceptive marketing. For example the Kia EV6 specs list a max fast charging rate of 350 kW but what that actually means is that you need a 350 kW charging station to reach the car's actual max charging speed of 240 kW (or 180 kW, depending on the battery options). Granted, that is still nice and fast, and the EV6 is a great car, but it's really frustrating how hard it is to compare charge speed from different manufacturers.
    - abledon 4y ago
      > For example the Kia EV6 specs list a max fast charging rate of 350 kW but what that actually means is that you need a 350 kW charging station to reach the car's actual max charging speed of 240 kW (or 180 kW, depending on the battery options). Wow that is the scummiest thing
    - giobox 4y ago
      How is this deceptive? Anyone who has ever charged a phone is probably familiar with the concept that a higher wattage charger provides faster charging speeds - electric cars are no different. Higher power chargers charge faster is not some secret. The car simply states the fastest DC connection it supports - 350kw. It works with any charger up to this wattage, just like my laptop charges from any USB-C source up to 100w - was I missold my laptop too because if I use a 50w charger it only charges at 50w? EVs must charge from a huge range of different wattage chargers - I regularly switch between 7kw, 11kw, 50kw and 250 depending on the spec of the power source. The power you get is determined entirely by the DC plug you use (and to some degree state of charge, but lets not complicate this further...) - the car has no bearing on this beyond supporting up to 350kw in this example. The car can't magically make a 50kw charger output 350kw, as nice as this might be.
      - jefftk 4y ago
        The specs say: [1] DC Fast Charge Time (10-80% @ 350 kW via Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) Level 3 Charger: Approx. 18 min. and Drive Battery Energy: 77.4 kWh The battery is 77.4 kWh. This implies the battery is charging at 180kW. If it were taking in the full 350kW and losing 170kW as heat that would be one (inefficient and dangerous) thing, but it doesn't sound like it actually draws 350kW? For comparison, they say 73min for charging at 50kW, which implies the battery is charging at 45kW. If we figure that same 10% loss, then to charge at 180kW it's probably drawing 200kW from the charger. [1] https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev6/specs https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev6/specs [2] 70% * 77.4 kWh * (60min / 1h) / 18 min = 181 kW
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    > The competitors also charge much less quickly Counterintuitively, it can be cheaper timewise (and money-wise) to spec and build a new factory than to re-tool one that was custom-built to manufacture cars with a large set of core assumptions about power plant and drive train.
  - usrusr 4y ago
    It's not just the platform. Another hindrance is baseline expectations: if Tesla designs the exterior strictly form-follows-cda, it's the "Tesla style". If an ICE maker does the same they break brands identity. Same for interior minimalism. Same for configuration options. They are used to selling a product that is basically solved (consider how cheap you can get e.g. a Dacia) and filled whatever capacity in terms of mass, cost and complexity with extra bells and whistles. That their customers now expect, ICE or not. Or that they suspect their customers to still expect, that's perfectly sufficient to never dare going a bit leaner. But for a BEV the manufacturer mostly sells a battery (in terms of mass, in terms of cost, in terms of quality) and the entire rest needs to be lean. Lean in cost, lean in complexity, lean in physical characteristics like mass and cda like it wasn't really all that necessary with the ICE. A trivial example (in unnecessary complexity, physical properties not really involved): on the German website, when you pretend to be ordering an Audi A6 you get twelve different sets of wheels to choose from at five price points. And that's before you add winter wheels to the mix. And tire options, and different approaches to the pressure gauge problem and theft preventing bolts. The Tesla S offers a choice between baseline and expensive an optional winter wheel. Now this isn't an example that directly relates to range, but it's organisational cruft. They need to have boatloads of people employed only for solving various aspects of their solution to the made-up problem of not enough wheel choice (all the way from design to spare parts logistics..) and that robs focus. Those people might actually have better careers than their peers dealing with batteries and they do compete for intraorganizational attention. It's all rooted in customer expectations built over decades of inventing car problems to solve better than the competition, after the ICE was basically done. New, BEV-specific lines can help (apparently the e-tron gets by with only eight sets of wheels at two price points, yay!), but they are far from being as much of a fresh start as that blank slate as Tesla has been.
  - pieter_mj 4y ago
    This is a huge dealbreaker for me tbh. Tesla's competitors are mostly still using an electrified ICE platform, showing even now they're years behind. It's comparable to countries who were pioneers in broadband internet and who are now lacking in progress and falling behind, or like MS Internet explorer that totally stagnated and held back browser technology.
    - musk_micropenis 4y ago
      [dead]
- politician 4y ago
  Can competitors source the raw metals required in sufficient quantities to put bigger batteries in their cars?
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Yes. And if Tesla would move to block them from doing so, they would set themselves up for an anti-competition suite of epic proportions in all markets, from the US over the EU all the way to China.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > if Tesla would move to block them from doing so Tesla is in no position to do so. They have a strong position in battery assembly, but zero direct presence in extraction or refining.
    - politician 4y ago
      The problem of procurement is about access to Lithium and Nickel ores. Telsa has a joint partnership with a Nickel mine in New Caledonia and rights on mining Lithium in Nevada. GM, Ford don't and there is a global shortage, so I don't see them succeeding in battery production long term. If they source batteries from Panasonic, they're buying an inferior battery. If they source from Tesla, that's obviously positive for Tesla. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56288781 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56288781
      - hef19898 4y ago
        If you hold a de-facto monopoly on certain taw materials, you are legally obliged to share it with competitors.
        hef19898 4y ago
        Plus: Tesla's battery cells came for a very long time from Panasonic. So much for inferior tech.
  - 4y ago
- ancientworldnow 4y ago
  Tesla's range advantage exists primarily in advertising. In real world tests it ranges from barely higher to moderately lower to equivalent competitors.
- xiphias2 4y ago
  As batteries were even more expensive years ago, Elon put energy efficiency above everything else, like putting in lighter seats than ICE car manufacturers and optimizing the thermal system (octovalve). The ,,false advertising'' that others say come from the fact that when you drive fast it doesn't matter how energy efficient you are, so it works out only with low speeds.
musasabi 4y ago
They also have by far the best charging network. IMO Teslas have the best long range driving experience. This detail is important although not the only thing to consider. However, it looms large in how Americans think about their cars. I say this as someone who owns an electric car by a different manufacturer.
- oblio 4y ago
  > They also have by far the best charging network. In the US. And the US drives these crazy valuations.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Of course, the US and China are the biggest global markets accounting for need and purchasing power. Europe has 400M more people than the US, but not the need for cars like the countries mentioned.
  - diblasio 4y ago
    Supercharger network is also much better than the other networks in Europe as well in the current state.
    - oblio 4y ago
      Yeah, but there it doesn't matter. You can take your €15k Dacia Spring there and use the Tesla chargers :-)
      - diblasio 4y ago
        It's true, but the cost is much higher. Normally I see folks using another vendor nearby in the same parking lot as as the Supercharger as they can get a better rate. In the future I think the other vendors will catch up unless some EV bubble bursts.
- mikeryan 4y ago
  They also have by far the best charging network This isn't a defensible position though for Tesla. New charging networks are coming online at a furious rate. I'm not sure maintaining their own network makes sense unless everything becomes compatible and they use it as an additional revenue stream. But for them to compete when every other auto manufacturer is subsidizing shared networks is risky.
cvak 4y ago
I think it's range per $, and I think tesla just about started loosing there last year.
warinukraine 4y ago
Does tesla have better range because they have better batteries, or just bigger batteries?
jesuscript 4y ago
I always thought their valuation was more tied to the Chinese market which the CCP has made hostile to anything but electric going forward. I don’t know if people have heard, but China is one of the bigger market. Heh.
hannasanarion 4y ago
You mean the range that a major governmental agency declared to be false advertising just a few days ago? https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/03/south-korea-fines-tesla-for-allegedly-exaggerating-driving-range-of-evs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/03/south-korea-fines-tesla-for-...
- dlivingston 4y ago
  > South Korea’s antitrust regulator said it would impose a 2.85 billion won ($2.2 million) fine on Tesla for failing to tell its customers about the shorter driving range of its electric vehicles in low temperatures. As a Tesla owner: range and ambient air temperature are significantly correlated (i.e., your 300 miles of range plummets to ~120 when below freezing). But, on a good, sunny, warm day, their range claims are correct.
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    I bet if Tesla were in Detroit instead of California, they'd remember that winter exists.
    - rxhernandez 4y ago
      There's plenty of snowy winter weather within an hour or two drive of LA. I'm sure they test in the Angeles Mountains as much as every other car manufacturer I saw test up there when I lived in those mountains.
    - kwhitefoot 4y ago
      The place where Teslas form the largest fraction of the car population is Norway. They don't seem to have more problems with winter than any other car brand. I have driven my 2015 Mode S 70D at 1000 m altitude, -20°C, on numerous occasions with no problems at all. My Model S is certainly better at handling the winter than a Nissan Leaf of the same vintage.
      - FireBeyond 4y ago
dougmany 4y ago
That article states > Although we haven't tested each of the longest-range models under our own EV highway range testing procedure, we've provided the data where possible. I don't think Tesla is as far ahead on range as everyone thinks. Highway miles are what matters and Tesla tends to be optimistic on their numbers. https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/
- theturtletalks 4y ago
  And isn’t that battery innovation and IP that Panasonic owns?
jcfrei 4y ago
Tesla Long Range (573km) and Mercedes EQS (566km) are basically on par. Here's a good overview by independent testers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k1DOw-NwvW8E8tQeXlacnt201fNc5qZyAPC0_vnoFBw/edit#gid=1256284032 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k1DOw-NwvW8E8tQeXlac...
- Kirby64 4y ago
  It might be on par in range, but it's far behind in terms of efficiency... and also much more expensive to boot. Also, comparing it against the Model 3 (which, I know, is not even the same league of 'luxury' as the EQS) it's even further behind in range/efficiency. The only cars that get the 'A' rating on that spreadsheet are the two Model 3 cars (316 mile version, and 200ish mile one), the 62kWh Nissan Leaf (216mi), and a bunch of super low range cars where efficiency is easy, since weight is way lower. Competitors are catching up, yes, but they're still pretty far behind in the efficiency game... which means that Tesla can produce quite a few more cars for the same amount of raw battery pack. Which drives better margins and more production capacity.
bdcravens 4y ago
Worth noting that list is each model's top trims. The Model 3 Long Range is currently unavailable for purchase. I wish the EPA would clamp down on manufacturer's range estimates, as those ranges are theoretical (perfect driving with no real acceleration, no climate control, etc). We need practical city/highway range like we get for ICE cars. My EV6 is rated at 310, but driving as conservatively as possible in Houston I get more like 285. On a road trip where it was mostly exposed freeway and cruise control, my range was closer to 220. Should also probably disclose range in freezing temps as well (I'm in Houston so I don't consider that as much as others). The first manufacturer to solve that problem well would possibly be a better car than one with a larger theoretical range.
MrMan 4y ago
they are the leader in claimed range not realize range.
crypot 4y ago
Real world tests show something different: "Every Tesla we've tested has failed to hit its EPA range estimate" https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-cons...
- judge2020 4y ago
  I blame the EPA just because they've allowed two sets of EPA test suites to co-exist under the same marketing term.

tshaddox 4y ago

Is it really that simple? Is there something about Tesla’s technology that enables longer ranges? Surely they just put in bigger batteries and charge more for the car, and competitors could also do that if it was really a primary competitive advantage of Teslas.

l33tman 4y ago
Many of the competitors are STILL building on an ICE chassis and stuff batteries where the center axle would have been etc. When enough of them finally switch to pure EV platforms things will quickly improve I guess. But designing a new chassis that behave as well as their previous premium models, is not something they do in 1 year so it makes sense there is some delay.. The competitors also charge much less quickly, so there's some optimization there that they lack. Like, on paper they can do 250 kW but you never get more than 100 when actually charging it etc
- hef19898 4y ago
  And they basically all did develop EV platforms, probably the main reason it took them as long to catch up as it did. But now that they have them, the benefits coming from those platforms are just enormous.
- NickM 4y ago
  Like, on paper they can do 250 kW but you never get more than 100 when actually charging it etc Yeah this is one area where there's a lot of deceptive marketing. For example the Kia EV6 specs list a max fast charging rate of 350 kW but what that actually means is that you need a 350 kW charging station to reach the car's actual max charging speed of 240 kW (or 180 kW, depending on the battery options). Granted, that is still nice and fast, and the EV6 is a great car, but it's really frustrating how hard it is to compare charge speed from different manufacturers.
  - abledon 4y ago
    > For example the Kia EV6 specs list a max fast charging rate of 350 kW but what that actually means is that you need a 350 kW charging station to reach the car's actual max charging speed of 240 kW (or 180 kW, depending on the battery options). Wow that is the scummiest thing
  - giobox 4y ago
    How is this deceptive? Anyone who has ever charged a phone is probably familiar with the concept that a higher wattage charger provides faster charging speeds - electric cars are no different. Higher power chargers charge faster is not some secret. The car simply states the fastest DC connection it supports - 350kw. It works with any charger up to this wattage, just like my laptop charges from any USB-C source up to 100w - was I missold my laptop too because if I use a 50w charger it only charges at 50w? EVs must charge from a huge range of different wattage chargers - I regularly switch between 7kw, 11kw, 50kw and 250 depending on the spec of the power source. The power you get is determined entirely by the DC plug you use (and to some degree state of charge, but lets not complicate this further...) - the car has no bearing on this beyond supporting up to 350kw in this example. The car can't magically make a 50kw charger output 350kw, as nice as this might be.
    - jefftk 4y ago
      The specs say: [1] DC Fast Charge Time (10-80% @ 350 kW via Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) Level 3 Charger: Approx. 18 min. and Drive Battery Energy: 77.4 kWh The battery is 77.4 kWh. This implies the battery is charging at 180kW. If it were taking in the full 350kW and losing 170kW as heat that would be one (inefficient and dangerous) thing, but it doesn't sound like it actually draws 350kW? For comparison, they say 73min for charging at 50kW, which implies the battery is charging at 45kW. If we figure that same 10% loss, then to charge at 180kW it's probably drawing 200kW from the charger. [1] https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev6/specs https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev6/specs [2] 70% * 77.4 kWh * (60min / 1h) / 18 min = 181 kW
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  > The competitors also charge much less quickly Counterintuitively, it can be cheaper timewise (and money-wise) to spec and build a new factory than to re-tool one that was custom-built to manufacture cars with a large set of core assumptions about power plant and drive train.
- usrusr 4y ago
  It's not just the platform. Another hindrance is baseline expectations: if Tesla designs the exterior strictly form-follows-cda, it's the "Tesla style". If an ICE maker does the same they break brands identity. Same for interior minimalism. Same for configuration options. They are used to selling a product that is basically solved (consider how cheap you can get e.g. a Dacia) and filled whatever capacity in terms of mass, cost and complexity with extra bells and whistles. That their customers now expect, ICE or not. Or that they suspect their customers to still expect, that's perfectly sufficient to never dare going a bit leaner. But for a BEV the manufacturer mostly sells a battery (in terms of mass, in terms of cost, in terms of quality) and the entire rest needs to be lean. Lean in cost, lean in complexity, lean in physical characteristics like mass and cda like it wasn't really all that necessary with the ICE. A trivial example (in unnecessary complexity, physical properties not really involved): on the German website, when you pretend to be ordering an Audi A6 you get twelve different sets of wheels to choose from at five price points. And that's before you add winter wheels to the mix. And tire options, and different approaches to the pressure gauge problem and theft preventing bolts. The Tesla S offers a choice between baseline and expensive an optional winter wheel. Now this isn't an example that directly relates to range, but it's organisational cruft. They need to have boatloads of people employed only for solving various aspects of their solution to the made-up problem of not enough wheel choice (all the way from design to spare parts logistics..) and that robs focus. Those people might actually have better careers than their peers dealing with batteries and they do compete for intraorganizational attention. It's all rooted in customer expectations built over decades of inventing car problems to solve better than the competition, after the ICE was basically done. New, BEV-specific lines can help (apparently the e-tron gets by with only eight sets of wheels at two price points, yay!), but they are far from being as much of a fresh start as that blank slate as Tesla has been.
- pieter_mj 4y ago
  This is a huge dealbreaker for me tbh. Tesla's competitors are mostly still using an electrified ICE platform, showing even now they're years behind. It's comparable to countries who were pioneers in broadband internet and who are now lacking in progress and falling behind, or like MS Internet explorer that totally stagnated and held back browser technology.
  - musk_micropenis 4y ago
    [dead]
politician 4y ago
Can competitors source the raw metals required in sufficient quantities to put bigger batteries in their cars?
- hef19898 4y ago
  Yes. And if Tesla would move to block them from doing so, they would set themselves up for an anti-competition suite of epic proportions in all markets, from the US over the EU all the way to China.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > if Tesla would move to block them from doing so Tesla is in no position to do so. They have a strong position in battery assembly, but zero direct presence in extraction or refining.
  - politician 4y ago
    The problem of procurement is about access to Lithium and Nickel ores. Telsa has a joint partnership with a Nickel mine in New Caledonia and rights on mining Lithium in Nevada. GM, Ford don't and there is a global shortage, so I don't see them succeeding in battery production long term. If they source batteries from Panasonic, they're buying an inferior battery. If they source from Tesla, that's obviously positive for Tesla. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56288781 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56288781
    - hef19898 4y ago
      If you hold a de-facto monopoly on certain taw materials, you are legally obliged to share it with competitors.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        Plus: Tesla's battery cells came for a very long time from Panasonic. So much for inferior tech.
- 4y ago
ancientworldnow 4y ago
Tesla's range advantage exists primarily in advertising. In real world tests it ranges from barely higher to moderately lower to equivalent competitors.
xiphias2 4y ago
As batteries were even more expensive years ago, Elon put energy efficiency above everything else, like putting in lighter seats than ICE car manufacturers and optimizing the thermal system (octovalve). The ,,false advertising'' that others say come from the fact that when you drive fast it doesn't matter how energy efficient you are, so it works out only with low speeds.

musasabi 4y ago

They also have by far the best charging network. IMO Teslas have the best long range driving experience. This detail is important although not the only thing to consider. However, it looms large in how Americans think about their cars. I say this as someone who owns an electric car by a different manufacturer.

oblio 4y ago
> They also have by far the best charging network. In the US. And the US drives these crazy valuations.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Of course, the US and China are the biggest global markets accounting for need and purchasing power. Europe has 400M more people than the US, but not the need for cars like the countries mentioned.
- diblasio 4y ago
  Supercharger network is also much better than the other networks in Europe as well in the current state.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Yeah, but there it doesn't matter. You can take your €15k Dacia Spring there and use the Tesla chargers :-)
    - diblasio 4y ago
      It's true, but the cost is much higher. Normally I see folks using another vendor nearby in the same parking lot as as the Supercharger as they can get a better rate. In the future I think the other vendors will catch up unless some EV bubble bursts.
mikeryan 4y ago
They also have by far the best charging network This isn't a defensible position though for Tesla. New charging networks are coming online at a furious rate. I'm not sure maintaining their own network makes sense unless everything becomes compatible and they use it as an additional revenue stream. But for them to compete when every other auto manufacturer is subsidizing shared networks is risky.

cvak 4y ago

I think it's range per $, and I think tesla just about started loosing there last year.

warinukraine 4y ago

Does tesla have better range because they have better batteries, or just bigger batteries?

jesuscript 4y ago

I always thought their valuation was more tied to the Chinese market which the CCP has made hostile to anything but electric going forward. I don’t know if people have heard, but China is one of the bigger market. Heh.

hannasanarion 4y ago

You mean the range that a major governmental agency declared to be false advertising just a few days ago? https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/03/south-korea-fines-tesla-for-allegedly-exaggerating-driving-range-of-evs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/03/south-korea-fines-tesla-for-...

dlivingston 4y ago
> South Korea’s antitrust regulator said it would impose a 2.85 billion won ($2.2 million) fine on Tesla for failing to tell its customers about the shorter driving range of its electric vehicles in low temperatures. As a Tesla owner: range and ambient air temperature are significantly correlated (i.e., your 300 miles of range plummets to ~120 when below freezing). But, on a good, sunny, warm day, their range claims are correct.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  I bet if Tesla were in Detroit instead of California, they'd remember that winter exists.
  - rxhernandez 4y ago
    There's plenty of snowy winter weather within an hour or two drive of LA. I'm sure they test in the Angeles Mountains as much as every other car manufacturer I saw test up there when I lived in those mountains.
  - kwhitefoot 4y ago
    The place where Teslas form the largest fraction of the car population is Norway. They don't seem to have more problems with winter than any other car brand. I have driven my 2015 Mode S 70D at 1000 m altitude, -20°C, on numerous occasions with no problems at all. My Model S is certainly better at handling the winter than a Nissan Leaf of the same vintage.
    - FireBeyond 4y ago

dougmany 4y ago

That article states > Although we haven't tested each of the longest-range models under our own EV highway range testing procedure, we've provided the data where possible. I don't think Tesla is as far ahead on range as everyone thinks. Highway miles are what matters and Tesla tends to be optimistic on their numbers. https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/ https://insideevs.com/reviews/443791/ev-range-test-results/

theturtletalks 4y ago
And isn’t that battery innovation and IP that Panasonic owns?

jcfrei 4y ago

Tesla Long Range (573km) and Mercedes EQS (566km) are basically on par. Here's a good overview by independent testers: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k1DOw-NwvW8E8tQeXlacnt201fNc5qZyAPC0_vnoFBw/edit#gid=1256284032 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1k1DOw-NwvW8E8tQeXlac...

Kirby64 4y ago
It might be on par in range, but it's far behind in terms of efficiency... and also much more expensive to boot. Also, comparing it against the Model 3 (which, I know, is not even the same league of 'luxury' as the EQS) it's even further behind in range/efficiency. The only cars that get the 'A' rating on that spreadsheet are the two Model 3 cars (316 mile version, and 200ish mile one), the 62kWh Nissan Leaf (216mi), and a bunch of super low range cars where efficiency is easy, since weight is way lower. Competitors are catching up, yes, but they're still pretty far behind in the efficiency game... which means that Tesla can produce quite a few more cars for the same amount of raw battery pack. Which drives better margins and more production capacity.

bdcravens 4y ago

Worth noting that list is each model's top trims. The Model 3 Long Range is currently unavailable for purchase. I wish the EPA would clamp down on manufacturer's range estimates, as those ranges are theoretical (perfect driving with no real acceleration, no climate control, etc). We need practical city/highway range like we get for ICE cars. My EV6 is rated at 310, but driving as conservatively as possible in Houston I get more like 285. On a road trip where it was mostly exposed freeway and cruise control, my range was closer to 220. Should also probably disclose range in freezing temps as well (I'm in Houston so I don't consider that as much as others). The first manufacturer to solve that problem well would possibly be a better car than one with a larger theoretical range.

MrMan 4y ago

they are the leader in claimed range not realize range.

crypot 4y ago

Real world tests show something different: "Every Tesla we've tested has failed to hit its EPA range estimate" https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-cons...

judge2020 4y ago
I blame the EPA just because they've allowed two sets of EPA test suites to co-exist under the same marketing term.