8 ms·

Why hate private trackers? That’s where all the good quality content on public trackers comes from. Without private trackers, it’s not obvious that anyone woul

Why hate private trackers? That’s where all the good quality content on public trackers comes from. Without private trackers, it’s not obvious that anyone would have bothered to extract Widevine keys and set up decryption pipelines for all the streaming sites. (So far zero scene groups seem to have achieved this)

thrdbndndn 4y ago
> Without private trackers, it’s not obvious that anyone.. The piracy scene (with 0-day FTP etc.) worked fine before BT was even well-known. And there are more than enough groups directly release their content on public trackers for anything remotely popular (any Netflix series fall into this category). You (or they) don't need PT for that. PT is kinda essential if you're interested in obscure/niche content though, I agree. I hate private trackers purely due to (my personal) value. I think it's a violation of "piracy spirit", and it somehow enables lots of people/groups' superiority complex or unnecessary gatekeeping behaviors (emphasis on "unnecessary": I know by definition it's not gateless). But I do acknowledge it's probably the most practical way nowadays.
- lfodofod 4y ago
  > And there are more than enough groups directly release their content on public trackers for anything remotely popular (any Netflix series fall into this category) Name one! Or link a torrent. I’m pretty sure you will only find shit quality webrips made with capture cards and not actual decrypted streams. > The piracy scene (with 0-day FTP etc.) worked fine before BT was even well-known. The TV scene has been reduced to nothing because none of the groups could figure out Widevine. Just look at any pre feed. Private tracker groups did though, and now everybody depends on them.
  - thrdbndndn 4y ago
    Dude, you totally overestimated how hard cracking Widevine is. It's not exactly "trivial", but extracting L1 key from an Android phone running older Android OS version isn't rocket science either.
    - lfodofod 4y ago
      Dude, I know exactly how not hard it is because I have done so. The fact remains, zero scene groups figured this out.
      - mccorrinall 4y ago
        They have, but it’s just not interesting. Similar to how the p2p scene doesn’t give a damn about software DRM. Regarding WV: There is actually lots of open source software and even some discords where WV keys are being shared. FFMPEG is capable of decrypting it, so all you need as ffmpeg inputs is the netflix stream and a key and then dump it to disk. Regarding pita DRM: the scene is the only capable group who still supply clean patches for modern DRM in games and applications. (Like denuvo) Clean in the sense that they don’t just install a hypervisor and hook everything for big performance penalties, but actually patch the binary to remove the checks through static analysis. 3DM is the last p2p group I know which done that, but that was half a decade ago. I don’t think there are currently any p2p groups which take a look at this, because it’s just not interesting (effort vs reward) for them.
        lfodofod 4y ago
        Software pirate groups you are talking about have very little overlap with people who were doing TV releases. > They have, but it’s just not interesting. Similar to how the p2p scene doesn’t give a damn about software DRM. But doing HDTV caps was interesting?
    - gforce_de 4y ago
      it is 'Widevine'
  - hhh 4y ago
    EPSiLON, SiQ
    - lfodofod 4y ago
      It’s pretty late, so I might be missing something. However, neither of those groups seems to be releasing netflix content? The first does bluray remuxes on HDB (a private tracker). I don’t think they directly release anything on public trackers. The other did a bunch of 360p porn uploads in 2019.
      - 312c 4y ago
        They might mean SiGMA not SiG, SiGMA releases on PrivateHD. EPSiLON used to also, but there was some issues between them and PHD and they are currently releasing on TorrentLeech I believe. SiGMA does Amazon/Netflix WebDLs, but EPSiLON only does BD remuxes.
- chii 4y ago
  > it's a violation of "piracy spirit" wouldn't private trackers be more aligned with the original piracy spirit? They are just a group of people who knew each other and shared stuff. Public trackers are actually more against the spirit of piracy imho - which has turned into publicly broadcasting content without the expectation of reciprocity.
  - thrdbndndn 4y ago
    Different people have different understanding of what the spirit should be like. With this said.. > just a group of people who knew each other and shared stuff. I wish! The thing is, private trackers are not like that, at least not anymore. It's more like a bunch of people trying to show who has the biggest e-penis (ratio, highest upload, etc.); and they're definitely not "friends" or know each other. I was heavily involved in the PT scene for a while 15 years ago, and really hated how big the egos and how many the dramas were there. Now I just lurk. To me, the best way, or the "spirit", is that you either share it with your friends only (which is what I typically do nowadays if I buy the stuff myself), or just publish it publicly (ideally anonymously), than only to some condescending pricks which somehow think being able to download "exclusive" content others share is a bragging right. FWIW, this is basically how eMule and most Japanese P2P softwares worked, so it influenced me a lot. There is zero gatekeeping; once you share, the files are no longer "yours". People can't even tell who published them. But again, that's just my value, and I keep it to myself. I totally see how this is not enough incentive for others to "share" their stuff.
    - lfodofod 4y ago
      > It's more like a bunch of people trying to show who has the biggest e-penis (ratio, highest upload, etc. Literally nobody cares about that stuff anymore, most members have been on these sites for so long that things like ratios have become utterly meaningless.
      - thrdbndndn 4y ago
        Lurkers of course mostly just silently download without causing drama. But there are enough people stirring shit especially among "elite" uploaders and mods.
- denkmoon 4y ago
  From my perspective as a torrent user not in "the scene", scene releases are usually trash tier and stuck in the '00s. Poorer visual quality encodes, and rules that dictate ludicrous behaviour like making the files a multi-part RAR then putting each part inside a ZIP.
  - thrdbndndn 4y ago
    Yeah I agree "the scene" is already an outdated model. Just that there was a way before PT.
autoexec 4y ago
> Why hate private trackers? They force you to create accounts and hand over personal info that can get you busted later when the site gets raided, or just silently handed off to the authorities who run it themselves for a time collecting data to go after the pirates later. Now they've got logs of your username, possibly your password, the email address you signed up with, and lists of every IP addresses you've used and when, interview questions/answers, detailed records of every single file you've ever downloaded/shared. It's gotten people caught many times. A tracker/website shouldn't know anything about you other than the IP address of the VPN you're using (which should change every single time you connect) and whatever information they can collect from your BitTorrent client and the locked down dedicated browser you're using whose fingerprint should also change regularly. No logins/accounts. No need to have your download/IP address history tracked and tied to anything that could point back to you. Ideally the site you use shouldn't even know what files you're downloading since you should be able to simply copy the magnet link instead of clicking on the names of the files you want or downloading torrent files from the server.
- lfodofod 4y ago
  > They force you to create accounts and hand over personal info that can get you busted later when the site gets raided What tracker forces you to hand over personal info? > just silently handed off to the authorities who run it themselves for a time to go after the pirates This has literally never happened. > It's gotten people caught many times. MAFIAA groups don’t even bother to sue private tracker uploaders anymore, what do you mean by “caught”? It’s like as if your comment was coming from a parallel universe where industry groups hadn’t stopped giving a shit about private trackers a decade+ ago.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > What tracker forces you to hand over personal info? Every one I've ever seen. At a minimum they'll want an email address or to chat with you on some service like discord that requires a sign up. The process leaves breadcrumbs everywhere. > This has literally never happened. It absolutely has. It usually happens after the site operator has been identified. They offer reduced charges if the site operator agrees to continue to keep the site running like normal while they collect the data. When it works according to plan, you won't ever hear about it. The site just eventually shuts down one day and the people busted with the data they collect are contacted directly. Sometimes it gets out though. For example: https://torrentfreak.com/torrentspy-ordered-to-spy-on-its-users-on-behalf-of-the-mpaa/ https://torrentfreak.com/torrentspy-ordered-to-spy-on-its-us... > MAFIAA groups don’t even bother to sue private tracker uploaders anymore, what do you mean by “caught”? This is also dead wrong, lawsuits still continue to this day against uploaders, but the vast majority of them never make it to a courtroom since the person they caught is usually forced into settlements, the terms of which are rarely disclosed to the public, but nearly always involve paying large sums of money and an admission of guilt. Their main focus isn't on targeting uploaders because they now know they can get billions from suing ISPs, but these site raids are huge wins for them and they aren't turning down opportunity when it lands right in their laps.

thrdbndndn 4y ago

> Without private trackers, it’s not obvious that anyone.. The piracy scene (with 0-day FTP etc.) worked fine before BT was even well-known. And there are more than enough groups directly release their content on public trackers for anything remotely popular (any Netflix series fall into this category). You (or they) don't need PT for that. PT is kinda essential if you're interested in obscure/niche content though, I agree. I hate private trackers purely due to (my personal) value. I think it's a violation of "piracy spirit", and it somehow enables lots of people/groups' superiority complex or unnecessary gatekeeping behaviors (emphasis on "unnecessary": I know by definition it's not gateless). But I do acknowledge it's probably the most practical way nowadays.

lfodofod 4y ago
> And there are more than enough groups directly release their content on public trackers for anything remotely popular (any Netflix series fall into this category) Name one! Or link a torrent. I’m pretty sure you will only find shit quality webrips made with capture cards and not actual decrypted streams. > The piracy scene (with 0-day FTP etc.) worked fine before BT was even well-known. The TV scene has been reduced to nothing because none of the groups could figure out Widevine. Just look at any pre feed. Private tracker groups did though, and now everybody depends on them.
- thrdbndndn 4y ago
  Dude, you totally overestimated how hard cracking Widevine is. It's not exactly "trivial", but extracting L1 key from an Android phone running older Android OS version isn't rocket science either.
  - lfodofod 4y ago
    Dude, I know exactly how not hard it is because I have done so. The fact remains, zero scene groups figured this out.
    - mccorrinall 4y ago
      They have, but it’s just not interesting. Similar to how the p2p scene doesn’t give a damn about software DRM. Regarding WV: There is actually lots of open source software and even some discords where WV keys are being shared. FFMPEG is capable of decrypting it, so all you need as ffmpeg inputs is the netflix stream and a key and then dump it to disk. Regarding pita DRM: the scene is the only capable group who still supply clean patches for modern DRM in games and applications. (Like denuvo) Clean in the sense that they don’t just install a hypervisor and hook everything for big performance penalties, but actually patch the binary to remove the checks through static analysis. 3DM is the last p2p group I know which done that, but that was half a decade ago. I don’t think there are currently any p2p groups which take a look at this, because it’s just not interesting (effort vs reward) for them.
      - lfodofod 4y ago
        Software pirate groups you are talking about have very little overlap with people who were doing TV releases. > They have, but it’s just not interesting. Similar to how the p2p scene doesn’t give a damn about software DRM. But doing HDTV caps was interesting?
  - gforce_de 4y ago
    it is 'Widevine'
- hhh 4y ago
  EPSiLON, SiQ
  - lfodofod 4y ago
    It’s pretty late, so I might be missing something. However, neither of those groups seems to be releasing netflix content? The first does bluray remuxes on HDB (a private tracker). I don’t think they directly release anything on public trackers. The other did a bunch of 360p porn uploads in 2019.
    - 312c 4y ago
      They might mean SiGMA not SiG, SiGMA releases on PrivateHD. EPSiLON used to also, but there was some issues between them and PHD and they are currently releasing on TorrentLeech I believe. SiGMA does Amazon/Netflix WebDLs, but EPSiLON only does BD remuxes.
chii 4y ago
> it's a violation of "piracy spirit" wouldn't private trackers be more aligned with the original piracy spirit? They are just a group of people who knew each other and shared stuff. Public trackers are actually more against the spirit of piracy imho - which has turned into publicly broadcasting content without the expectation of reciprocity.
- thrdbndndn 4y ago
  Different people have different understanding of what the spirit should be like. With this said.. > just a group of people who knew each other and shared stuff. I wish! The thing is, private trackers are not like that, at least not anymore. It's more like a bunch of people trying to show who has the biggest e-penis (ratio, highest upload, etc.); and they're definitely not "friends" or know each other. I was heavily involved in the PT scene for a while 15 years ago, and really hated how big the egos and how many the dramas were there. Now I just lurk. To me, the best way, or the "spirit", is that you either share it with your friends only (which is what I typically do nowadays if I buy the stuff myself), or just publish it publicly (ideally anonymously), than only to some condescending pricks which somehow think being able to download "exclusive" content others share is a bragging right. FWIW, this is basically how eMule and most Japanese P2P softwares worked, so it influenced me a lot. There is zero gatekeeping; once you share, the files are no longer "yours". People can't even tell who published them. But again, that's just my value, and I keep it to myself. I totally see how this is not enough incentive for others to "share" their stuff.
  - lfodofod 4y ago
    > It's more like a bunch of people trying to show who has the biggest e-penis (ratio, highest upload, etc. Literally nobody cares about that stuff anymore, most members have been on these sites for so long that things like ratios have become utterly meaningless.
    - thrdbndndn 4y ago
      Lurkers of course mostly just silently download without causing drama. But there are enough people stirring shit especially among "elite" uploaders and mods.
denkmoon 4y ago
From my perspective as a torrent user not in "the scene", scene releases are usually trash tier and stuck in the '00s. Poorer visual quality encodes, and rules that dictate ludicrous behaviour like making the files a multi-part RAR then putting each part inside a ZIP.
- thrdbndndn 4y ago
  Yeah I agree "the scene" is already an outdated model. Just that there was a way before PT.

autoexec 4y ago

> Why hate private trackers? They force you to create accounts and hand over personal info that can get you busted later when the site gets raided, or just silently handed off to the authorities who run it themselves for a time collecting data to go after the pirates later. Now they've got logs of your username, possibly your password, the email address you signed up with, and lists of every IP addresses you've used and when, interview questions/answers, detailed records of every single file you've ever downloaded/shared. It's gotten people caught many times. A tracker/website shouldn't know anything about you other than the IP address of the VPN you're using (which should change every single time you connect) and whatever information they can collect from your BitTorrent client and the locked down dedicated browser you're using whose fingerprint should also change regularly. No logins/accounts. No need to have your download/IP address history tracked and tied to anything that could point back to you. Ideally the site you use shouldn't even know what files you're downloading since you should be able to simply copy the magnet link instead of clicking on the names of the files you want or downloading torrent files from the server.

lfodofod 4y ago
> They force you to create accounts and hand over personal info that can get you busted later when the site gets raided What tracker forces you to hand over personal info? > just silently handed off to the authorities who run it themselves for a time to go after the pirates This has literally never happened. > It's gotten people caught many times. MAFIAA groups don’t even bother to sue private tracker uploaders anymore, what do you mean by “caught”? It’s like as if your comment was coming from a parallel universe where industry groups hadn’t stopped giving a shit about private trackers a decade+ ago.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > What tracker forces you to hand over personal info? Every one I've ever seen. At a minimum they'll want an email address or to chat with you on some service like discord that requires a sign up. The process leaves breadcrumbs everywhere. > This has literally never happened. It absolutely has. It usually happens after the site operator has been identified. They offer reduced charges if the site operator agrees to continue to keep the site running like normal while they collect the data. When it works according to plan, you won't ever hear about it. The site just eventually shuts down one day and the people busted with the data they collect are contacted directly. Sometimes it gets out though. For example: https://torrentfreak.com/torrentspy-ordered-to-spy-on-its-users-on-behalf-of-the-mpaa/ https://torrentfreak.com/torrentspy-ordered-to-spy-on-its-us... > MAFIAA groups don’t even bother to sue private tracker uploaders anymore, what do you mean by “caught”? This is also dead wrong, lawsuits still continue to this day against uploaders, but the vast majority of them never make it to a courtroom since the person they caught is usually forced into settlements, the terms of which are rarely disclosed to the public, but nearly always involve paying large sums of money and an admission of guilt. Their main focus isn't on targeting uploaders because they now know they can get billions from suing ISPs, but these site raids are huge wins for them and they aren't turning down opportunity when it lands right in their laps.