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You made some good points. I am under 40 so I might still have some changing to do as well I guess! As for factors changing during my lifetime, I am not sure. I

You made some good points. I am under 40 so I might still have some changing to do as well I guess! As for factors changing during my lifetime, I am not sure. I don't think it's entirely genetic since genes almost always have some environment mediation. I do believe fat people can get healthy and remain healthy, and I only meant to say that "metabolism" and desire are mediating but not wholly determining factors. As for the people who can't stop eating, I don't propose to "do" anything with them. I don't believe in altering genetics or using advanced technology to solve the problem. I don't think we should split them out in terms of healthcare either because that would be cruel. I might also have some predisposition to some other costly condition like heart disease and then I would be in another "more expensive" group and just not know about it because it's not visible like obesity.

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
If "fat people can get healthy and remain healthy" then you agree that it is indeed a matter of willpower, right?
- vouaobrasil 4y ago
  Well, I think people have different levels of willpower (which may actually also be genetic) and an interaction with their desire to eat. Some people clearly have much stronger wills than others, and that's probably genetic or at least imprinted early on.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    What if you found out that willpower wasn’t genetic, but a learned skill like riding a bike? Would that change your opinion at all?
    - vouaobrasil 4y ago
      Well, yes and no. I guess it might change it a little. Plenty of things are learned quite early though, so it might be some learned skill that happens so early that the person themselves are not responsible for it. I mean it's a bit of a complex question isn't it?
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        It's actually a quite simple question; if you found out that willpower were entirely a learnable skill, a skill that you could improve with deliberate practice, would you change your mind about how much agency someone has over their own weight? It's in fact a yes/no question.
        d1sxeyes 4y ago
        I think the premise of your question is wrong. My reading of OP's comment is not that people have no agency, or that willpower is not a learnable skill. My reading of OP's comment is that for some people, it is easy to lose weight. For others it is hard. I agree with this (while still saying that I believe that people have agency over their own weight and that willpower is a learnable skill). There is no doubt that being fat or not fat is absolutely a function of how much you eat (and to a lesser extent, exercise), and that how much you eat is a function of willpower. The question is the other parts of the functions. For some people, they can eat as much as they like without getting fat. Others get fat eating less than average. For some people, it takes a lot of willpower to eat less. For others, it takes less willpower. Someone who's 5'5" will have a harder time becoming a pro-basketball player than someone who's 6'5". Doesn't mean they can't do it with a lot of effort and willpower. So no changes of mind are needed, the answer to your question is 'no', because I already believe that willpower is learnable (and if I understand correctly, so does OP).
        SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        If you believe willpower is a skill, and you believe that deciding to eat or not eat is a conscious choice, then you must therefore believe a person can train their willpower to prevent them from making the choice to eat. There are no other ways to see this. You don’t subconsciously eat, that’s not really a thing.
        vouaobrasil 4y ago
        I don't agree with that reasoning, even with your premises. Willpower could be a skill, but some people could learn it better than others because of innate ability. Piano is a skill, but some people learn it much better than others. A person might be able to learn some level of willpower but still lack a sufficient amount to prevent them from eating.

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago

If "fat people can get healthy and remain healthy" then you agree that it is indeed a matter of willpower, right?

vouaobrasil 4y ago
Well, I think people have different levels of willpower (which may actually also be genetic) and an interaction with their desire to eat. Some people clearly have much stronger wills than others, and that's probably genetic or at least imprinted early on.
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  What if you found out that willpower wasn’t genetic, but a learned skill like riding a bike? Would that change your opinion at all?
  - vouaobrasil 4y ago
    Well, yes and no. I guess it might change it a little. Plenty of things are learned quite early though, so it might be some learned skill that happens so early that the person themselves are not responsible for it. I mean it's a bit of a complex question isn't it?
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      It's actually a quite simple question; if you found out that willpower were entirely a learnable skill, a skill that you could improve with deliberate practice, would you change your mind about how much agency someone has over their own weight? It's in fact a yes/no question.
      - d1sxeyes 4y ago
        I think the premise of your question is wrong. My reading of OP's comment is not that people have no agency, or that willpower is not a learnable skill. My reading of OP's comment is that for some people, it is easy to lose weight. For others it is hard. I agree with this (while still saying that I believe that people have agency over their own weight and that willpower is a learnable skill). There is no doubt that being fat or not fat is absolutely a function of how much you eat (and to a lesser extent, exercise), and that how much you eat is a function of willpower. The question is the other parts of the functions. For some people, they can eat as much as they like without getting fat. Others get fat eating less than average. For some people, it takes a lot of willpower to eat less. For others, it takes less willpower. Someone who's 5'5" will have a harder time becoming a pro-basketball player than someone who's 6'5". Doesn't mean they can't do it with a lot of effort and willpower. So no changes of mind are needed, the answer to your question is 'no', because I already believe that willpower is learnable (and if I understand correctly, so does OP).
        SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        If you believe willpower is a skill, and you believe that deciding to eat or not eat is a conscious choice, then you must therefore believe a person can train their willpower to prevent them from making the choice to eat. There are no other ways to see this. You don’t subconsciously eat, that’s not really a thing.
        vouaobrasil 4y ago
        I don't agree with that reasoning, even with your premises. Willpower could be a skill, but some people could learn it better than others because of innate ability. Piano is a skill, but some people learn it much better than others. A person might be able to learn some level of willpower but still lack a sufficient amount to prevent them from eating.