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> I believe that everyone, even the skinny folks, should be on GLP1 drugs for the longevity effects. Are you for real? Serious question.
by sfusato 4y ago
> I believe that everyone, even the skinny folks, should be on GLP1 drugs for the longevity effects.
Are you for real? Serious question.
- 0xB31B1B 4y agoI mean, if you have perfect bloodwork and a marvel movie body probably not necessary but otherwise yes. Heart disease, hypertension, high cholesterol, colon cancer rates are rising amongst everyone, even thin people. These drugs positively impact indicators of these things in everyone. Longevity makers have been betting on metformin for a long time and these drugs are like a supercharged metformin
- throwaway5959 4y agoAre they rising across the board or for certain ranges of BMI/weight?
- 0xB31B1B 4y agoAcross the board
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mcculley 4y agoI think I will wait for some version that does not cause "strong nausea, extreme fatigue, brain fog, and constipation".
- jboy55 4y agoI take a GLP-1, I do not feel any of these effects unless I eat poorly. I'm not saying these side-effects don't happen, but they aren't guaranteed. Testing has also shown these aren't prevalent in the majority of users.
- LordDragonfang 4y agoThose are mostly just second-order symptoms of hypoglycemia/running a severe caloric deficit.
- mcculley 4y agoI have a lot of experience with fasting. I have never experienced those symptoms as a result of restricting calories.
- hallway_monitor 4y agoIn my experience, it seems like these effects may be more common in people who are not fat-adapted from low carb diets or some type of fasting.
- mythhouse 4y ago> I have a lot of experience with fasting. > I think I will wait for some version that does not cause "strong nausea, extreme fatigue, brain fog, and constipation". Did fasting help with weight control. Why are you considering these drugs ?
- mcculley 4y agoFasting does help me with weight control. I generally eat only one meal each day and I find this has many other benefits. I am not considering these drugs. I responded to "I believe that everyone, even the skinny folks, should be on GLP1 drugs for the longevity effects."
- sarchertech 4y agoWere you operating at a calorie deficit for a prolonged period though. I.e., were you fasting for weeks at a time?
- mcculley 4y agoI have been eating only one meal per day deliberately for many years. I have fasted for up to 4 days. I seldom fast for more than one day. When I was doing keto, I never experienced the keto flu that many complain about. If these are the same symptoms, maybe the same benefits are achieved without taking the drug.
- ianbutler 4y agoYou forgot the key part of "for the first 3 months" the assumption is that they largely tapered off for OP I think. That's an easy trade off for me personally.
- mcculley 4y agoI did not forget that. I am not going to risk brain fog for three months.
- ianbutler 4y agoOkay that’s personal preference but the long term trade off seems to heavily out weigh some brain fog for a few months. Talking years of improved health.
- Tepix 4y agoNot if brain fog is a symptom of brain injury.
- ianbutler 4y agoTemporary brain fog, which is what is said here, doesn't indicate brain injury to me. You can get brain fog from a large caloric deficit before your body adjusts to it, which this by design, will induce.
- mcculley 4y agoHave there been proven benefits beyond weight loss? I am responding to "I believe that everyone, even the skinny folks, should be on GLP1 drugs for the longevity effects" and assertions about "longevity markers". I am not interested in taking a drug to lose weight. I am interested in improving my overall health, but I am not yet convinced that I should take this drug. The symptoms could be a sign that something bad is happening to the body.
- ianbutler 4y ago
- hackernewds 4y agodespite that wouldn't just undernourishing the body lead to shorter lifespans not longer?
- mcculley 4y agoI have been hearing for at least 20 years that calorie restriction increases lifespan [0]. I have not seen compelling evidence of this, but I know a lot of people believe it. [0]: https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/can-calorie-restriction-extend-your-lifespan/ https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2020/can-calorie-restrict...
- drcross 4y agoPlease correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the initial research on this conducted on animal models where they were essentially starved to the point where they went into hibernation mode? The point that I'd like to make is- if you think a comparison between hunter/gathers and the modern human is illustrative for a diet where our phenotype thrives best, sure, their food arrive at more irregular intervals than the modern human and they probably binged on what was in season at the time (which might give us pointers for our own diet) but I think the concept of perpetual calorie restriction as a full time human diet is infantile and quacky.
- mcculley 4y agoThis is exactly why I said, “I have not seen compelling evidence of this, but I know a lot of people believe it.”
- watwut 4y agoI mean yes, the obesity is actually not the only health issue in existence. Your weight and your health are two different somewhat related variables. But so, the idea that everyone should take drug designed to make you thin by making you not feel hunge including thin people is scary.
- dls2016 4y agoBig Pharma vs. Big Ag! Fight! Fight! Fight!
- mythhouse 4y ago> if you have perfect bloodwork I see a lot of health influencers always say whatever diet they are doing is best because nothing bad has shown up on their bloodwork. I am not really sure if bloodwork is all it takes to asses your health.
- poszlem 4y agoIt's not. The obsession with bloodwork seems to be specific to certain countries (like the US). In most countries, where the medical system is focused less on charging people money and more on evidence based treatments, blood tests are done to find something specific, not to "see how a person is doing", as they care about the effects of overtreatment (unnecessary distress, surgeries, treatments). Many people have this weird view of the "bloodwork" where they treat the results of them like a character screen in an RPG game.
- mythhouse 4y agoi disagree because my dad got diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer with 300+ PSA values. This could've been diagnosed when it could still have been cured ( or managed) if they had done a simple blood test to "see how a person is doing" . blood tests are evidence based. > where the medical system is focused less on charging people money and more on evidence based treatments, blood tests are done to find something specific, not to "see how a person is doing" I am not sure what insurance you are using in USA but my insurance is super stingy about approving any blood tests that doctor doesn't think are super necessary. All the health influencers i mentioned in earlier comment seem to be paying out of pocket for tests like 'insulin sensitivity' because insurance doesn't pay for those.
- poszlem 4y agoI am not saying that "no random blood test has ever uncovered any dangerous disease", which is obviously not true. I am saying that when aggregated, on average many of the screening tests, including yearly bloodwork have more negative effects than positive. The fact that your father got diagnosed too late is incredibly sad, and I truly feel for you, as that's the disease that took my grandfather too. But that does not offset the fact that if you screen people "yearly" you end up with more unnecessary interventions, painful tests, and potential false positives, and generally bad outcomes than if you don't do it. You could just as easily find a story about someone who had an unnecessary blood test that revealed something potentially troubling, they went to have a more invasive tests that resulted in them getting hurt from treating what turned out to be a false positive.
- joe_the_user 4y agoThese drugs positively impact indicators of these things in everyone. I think people's eagerness to jump from changes in markers to actual longevity is quite unfortunate. Medical "breakthroughs" often founder on such confusion and amateurs approaching things this way. See Goodhart's Law [1] (much as I generally regret the hn/geek tendency to lean these law, here it's reasonable). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
- zerocrates 4y agoSomewhat inevitable to use surrogates because you're going to take absolutely forever to get results on longevity (barring things with very strong negative effects on longevity). Though communicating the difference between things that are only proven on surrogate markers and things shown to actually affect the real desired outcome is important, I agree.
- yamtaddle 4y ago> these drugs are like a supercharged metformin No drinking alcohol, like metformin? If so, I suspect you could get a large fraction of the improvement gained from a population-wide deployment of these drugs, at zero cost, if everyone just stopped drinking alcohol. "But that's unreasonable!" Right, so if that's also required for taking this drug, then....
- rayiner 4y agoMy whole family mostly avoids alcohol (Muslim) and lots of people are overweight.
- 1024core 4y agoIt's the sugars that get you. Avoid processed foods at all cost. And avoid simple carbs like white bread, white rice, etc.
- selimthegrim 4y agoAsking a Bengali to avoid white rice is going to get you laughed out of the room.
- rayiner 4y agoMy parents keep rice in a 20 gallon metal bucket and it’s just the two of them. It’s gotta hold 100+ pounds of rice.
- 1024core 4y agoYou can always switch to brown rice. It's not the same, but over time you get used to it.
- selimthegrim 4y agoIt has some anti nutrient properties with iron and/or calcium (phytic acid?)
- paulpauper 4y agocolon cancer rates are rising amongst everyone, even thin people. Yeah, look at all these super-old people like Alan Greenspan, Warren Buffett, Kissinger, Munger who pretty much have terrible diets, obese, no exercise yet still going strong, productive. Shows the power of genes. "Your BMI is below 23, therefore we will skip the colonoscopy and prostate/PSA exam and blood work," said no doctor ever (unless the doctor wants to get sued, I suppose).
- novok 4y agoYou might think the very rich have bad diets, but I guarantee you it's probably way better than the vast majority of people. They can and do have personal cooks, nutritionists and shoppers give them optimized food all the time and drink a coke and have a burger in public once in a while to make you think they are 'just like you and me!'. It's that underlying foundation that you don't see that gives them the margin to have a burger.
- mythhouse 4y agoI don't think warren buffet has worked out a day in his life and has publicly said that he consumes 6 cans of coke everyday( not 'once in a while') and works 14hrs sitting. What exactly is the personal cook feeding him that is offsetting his lifestyle. I don't buy your theory that secret to longevity is a personal chef or a nutrition expert.
- gardenhedge 4y agoA marvel movie body is made through injecting steorids.. not living healthily.
- Jagerbizzle 4y agoNatural bodybuilding is a thing. It does require eating a ton of protein though, so whether or not it's "living healthily" depends on what you consider a normal amount of poultry and fish a person should be eating on a daily basis.
- bt4u 4y ago[dead]
- gardenhedge 4y agoThat's not really how it works. Eating a good diet (yes, including protein) and having a good exercise routine and executing both strictly for a number of years can lead to have a good natural body. That does not lead to having a body like Thor though. Not to mention that makeup, specific lighting, timed pumps and short term dieting tricks can be used for movies. How an actor looks on the day of a shoot isn't how they walk around looking.
- erybodyknows 4y agoI truly wish more people were aware of this. The unrealistic expectations generated as a result of the silence around the topic is shameful.
- Ancapistani 4y agoI'm unfamiliar with the research around GLP1 drugs, but I my past reading about the long-term effects of metformin led me to a similar conclusion. Unfortunately, metformin causes me severe gastrointestinal issues that don't resolve themselves after a few weeks. There are lots of surprising findings w/r/t pharmaceuticals if you start really digging. Lots of missed opportunity for overall improvement in the human condition that aren't being exploited.
- beckingz 4y agoGets into fun tradeoff questions of "Would you live an extra 20 years but have diarrhea every day"
- novok 4y agoDepends how bad the diarrhea is. I basically kind of lived that with the very spicy food in south east asia, along with the resultant better health & fat loss from the better diet.
- Ancapistani 4y agoI answered that one with "no" :P
- xwdv 4y ago[flagged]
- darreninthenet 4y agoUnless you're in a country with a proper social healthcare system anyway...
- hodgesrm 4y ago> And even if he was, doctors push pills for commission, so don’t trust them too much either. Can you cite sources? Otherwise please don't post such claims. It's unworthy of Hacker News.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- xwdv 4y agoIt’s well known that doctors receive money from pharmacy companies in exchange for promoting their products.
- sarchertech 4y agoMy wife is a doctor she’s never been paid by a pharmacy company. It’s illegal to directly pay doctors for prescribing drugs. Pharmaceutical companies do pay some doctors for speaking gigs (a very small fraction of them). The average doctor might get lunch in exchange for listening to a presentation. But I guarantee they aren’t there listening to a boring presentation because of a few dollars worth of food. All these payments are public record, so you can look them up for any given doctor.
- scifibestfi 4y agoWe're seeing the most successful Big Pharma marketing campaign since OxyContin. The Promotion and Marketing of OxyContin: Commercial Triumph, Public Health Tragedy > From 1996 to 2001, Purdue conducted more than 40 national pain-management and speaker-training conferences at resorts in Florida, Arizona, and California. More than 5000 physicians, pharmacists, and nurses attended these all-expenses-paid symposia, where they were recruited and trained for Purdue's national speaker bureau. > One of the cornerstones of Purdue's marketing plan was the use of sophisticated marketing data to influence physicians’ prescribing. > Purdue “aggressively” promoted the use of opioids for use in the “non-malignant pain market.” A much larger market than that for cancer-related pain, the non–cancer-related pain market constituted 86% of the total opioid market in 1999. Purdue's promotion of OxyContin for the treatment of non–cancer-related pain contributed to a nearly tenfold increase in OxyContin prescriptions > A consistent feature in the promotion and marketing of OxyContin was a systematic effort to minimize the risk https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/
- ceejayoz 4y agoThat article starts with: > Controlled drugs, with their potential for abuse and diversion, can pose public health risks that are different from—and more problematic than—those of uncontrolled drugs when they are overpromoted and highly prescribed. These drugs are not of that nature.
- hnuser123456 4y agoNo, but the ADD/ADHD stims are. I also had nausea all day and could not eat more than approx 1. slice of pizza for lunch and dinner up til age 16 on days that I took the smallest dose of methylpenidate. In summer, when I was not on it, I actually resumed average eating and growth. My growth chart, before age 8 starting it, was right around 50th percentile in height/weight, and by age 16, was was around bottom 5th percentile.
- cglace 4y agoAnother anecdote, I was on ADD meds from 5th grade through college and I'm at 99th percentile height.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoThose that haven’t heard of Chesterton’s fence might jump at the opportunity to live like no humans in the history of the universe.
- sooheon 4y agoAll of us already are -- that condition is unavoidable. You just choose your flavor.
- mythhouse 4y agotake GLP1 drugs, NAD , metformin , rapamycin for maximum benefits.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- anigbrowl 4y agoI had the same reaction. I minimize oxidative stress on my body by being selective about what I eat: having a bit less of some delicious things and eating a bit more of some boring foods that I know are good for me. Also, fuck 'longevity.' The population of the world has doubled during my lifetime and this is a Bad Thing which is wiping out vast numbers of other species. Call me misanthropic if you like but humans are overrated and the maximization of our species' footprint is not a desirable outcome. I expect to live for a shorter time than my parents have (partly due to my own choices, partly environmental factors) and while that's disappointing in some ways I've been fortunate enough to enjoy reasonably good health and resultant quality of life. My idea of biological success is no living to the greatest age possible but having sufficient fitness and autonomy to be physically and mentally active while I'm alive. I have enough experience of injury and near-death situations to know that I'm OK with dying, and have no intention of begging to escape the inevitable.
- kiba 4y agoAlso, fuck 'longevity.' The population of the world has doubled during my lifetime and this is a Bad Thing which is wiping out vast numbers of other species. More about our socioeconomic and political structure than raw population numbers. Every piece of meat, for example, require the conversion of plant matter into meat. There's going to be energy loss. If we eat more plants and less meat, we would pollute less, and less meat animals and presumably more wild animals. My idea of biological success is no living to the greatest ago possible but having sufficient fitness and autonomy to be physically and mentally active while I'm alive. Unless you die in an accident, you're going to live longer due to being healthier.
- hutzlibu 4y ago"Unless you die in an accident, you're going to live longer due to being healthier." You are making assumptions, about his lifestyle choices. Also, medicine might have improved, but so have subjectivly stress and fear and terror (economic outlook, climate change, etc..) A good reminder to turn that smartphone off now.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
- dang 4y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34247305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34247305.