4 ms·

Incomes are generally lower, but EU residents generally have a higher standard of living than US residents according to Human Development Indexes. Life expectan

Incomes are generally lower, but EU residents generally have a higher standard of living than US residents according to Human Development Indexes. Life expectancy is also better, infant and maternal mortality are lower, test scores are higher, etc. This is because of the prevalence of socialism, which came about because labor broadly won in Europe. I think Europe's example makes the benefits of unions clear.

jandrewrogers 4y ago
The EU has a higher quality of life. The US has a higher standard of living. Quality of life and standard of living are only loosely correlated.
- camgunz 4y ago
  The EU has both a higher quality of life and standard of living. Here's Investopedia's list of stuff [0] you'd measure for standard of living (FWIW it also mentions HDI as a good measure of standard of living, which the EU generally beats the US at, especially IHDI): - Life expectancy - Inflation rate - Number of paid vacation days - Class disparity - Poverty rate - Quality and affordability of housing - Hours of work required to purchase necessities - GDP - Affordable access to quality healthcare - Quality and availability of education - Incidence of disease - Infrastructure - National economic growth - Economic and political stability - Political and religious freedom - Environmental quality - Climate - Safety Generally other than the GDP/economic growth points, the EU beats the US. [0]: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/08/standard-of-living-quality-of-life.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/08/st...
rayiner 4y ago
The difference in HDI between the US (0.921) and say Denmark (0.948) can be entirely explained by the fact that a large portion of the US population is a formerly enslaved minority, and an even larger portion is recent immigrants from the developing world: https://measureofamerica.org/10yearsandcounting https://measureofamerica.org/10yearsandcounting. That has nothing to do with socialism, but historical and geographic factors unusual to the US.
- camgunz 4y ago
  Oh that was a fun read, thank you! I don't know that it supports your claim that the HDI delta can be "entirely" (or I would even say sufficiently) explained by slavery/immigration: - There are quite a few Asian immigrants from developing countries (in 2018 the shares were: 13% from Europe/NA, 28% Asia, 25% Latin America, 25% Mexico [0]) and their scores are literally off the charts. - A lot of states with small Black/Latino population portions have pretty low AHDIs [1]; the bottom 3rd includes Kentucky, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Idaho, Indiana, Nebraska, Wisconsin, and Ohio. On the other hand, DC, North Carolina, and Maryland have very high Black population portions (44%, 32%, and 22% respectively) and they're ranked 5th, 19th, and 20th. - A more parsimonious explanation of the AHDI rankings is that states with better social safety nets and more labor protections do better than those without. For example, of the 11 states that decline the ACA's Medicaid grant [2], only 2 are in the top half of AHDIs, and the remaining 9 average to rank 39. - Europe continues to see a huge influx of refugee immigration [3]. If immigration were a part of this story you'd expect this to lower its HDI, but it doesn't. Again it seems pretty clear here that the difference is socialism. - Just as a matter of course, the AHDI breakdowns don't disambiguate recent immigrants from subsequent generations. There's no doubt the US has a lot of immigration from Central and South America, but they aren't all new, so you can't really make the claim that recent immigration accounts for the lower AHDI amongst them. - Inequality-adjusted HDI (IHDI) [4] would better address your criticisms because it measures the average person, thereby taking into account recent and historical disadvantages, and here we can see that aside from Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy (somewhat notorious as a grouping) Europe broadly outdoes the US. [0]: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/ https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_American_Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_America... [2]: https://www.kff.org/health-reform/state-indicator/state-activity-around-expanding-medicaid-under-the-affordable-care-act/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D# https://www.kff.org/health-reform/state-indicator/state-acti... [3]: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2016/08/02/number-of-refugees-to-europe-surges-to-record-1-3-million-in-2015/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2016/08/02/number-of-refu... [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequalit...

jandrewrogers 4y ago

The EU has a higher quality of life. The US has a higher standard of living. Quality of life and standard of living are only loosely correlated.

camgunz 4y ago
The EU has both a higher quality of life and standard of living. Here's Investopedia's list of stuff [0] you'd measure for standard of living (FWIW it also mentions HDI as a good measure of standard of living, which the EU generally beats the US at, especially IHDI): - Life expectancy - Inflation rate - Number of paid vacation days - Class disparity - Poverty rate - Quality and affordability of housing - Hours of work required to purchase necessities - GDP - Affordable access to quality healthcare - Quality and availability of education - Incidence of disease - Infrastructure - National economic growth - Economic and political stability - Political and religious freedom - Environmental quality - Climate - Safety Generally other than the GDP/economic growth points, the EU beats the US. [0]: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/08/standard-of-living-quality-of-life.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/financial-theory/08/st...

rayiner 4y ago

The difference in HDI between the US (0.921) and say Denmark (0.948) can be entirely explained by the fact that a large portion of the US population is a formerly enslaved minority, and an even larger portion is recent immigrants from the developing world: https://measureofamerica.org/10yearsandcounting https://measureofamerica.org/10yearsandcounting. That has nothing to do with socialism, but historical and geographic factors unusual to the US.

camgunz 4y ago
Oh that was a fun read, thank you! I don't know that it supports your claim that the HDI delta can be "entirely" (or I would even say sufficiently) explained by slavery/immigration: - There are quite a few Asian immigrants from developing countries (in 2018 the shares were: 13% from Europe/NA, 28% Asia, 25% Latin America, 25% Mexico [0]) and their scores are literally off the charts. - A lot of states with small Black/Latino population portions have pretty low AHDIs [1]; the bottom 3rd includes Kentucky, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Idaho, Indiana, Nebraska, Wisconsin, and Ohio. On the other hand, DC, North Carolina, and Maryland have very high Black population portions (44%, 32%, and 22% respectively) and they're ranked 5th, 19th, and 20th. - A more parsimonious explanation of the AHDI rankings is that states with better social safety nets and more labor protections do better than those without. For example, of the 11 states that decline the ACA's Medicaid grant [2], only 2 are in the top half of AHDIs, and the remaining 9 average to rank 39. - Europe continues to see a huge influx of refugee immigration [3]. If immigration were a part of this story you'd expect this to lower its HDI, but it doesn't. Again it seems pretty clear here that the difference is socialism. - Just as a matter of course, the AHDI breakdowns don't disambiguate recent immigrants from subsequent generations. There's no doubt the US has a lot of immigration from Central and South America, but they aren't all new, so you can't really make the claim that recent immigration accounts for the lower AHDI amongst them. - Inequality-adjusted HDI (IHDI) [4] would better address your criticisms because it measures the average person, thereby taking into account recent and historical disadvantages, and here we can see that aside from Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy (somewhat notorious as a grouping) Europe broadly outdoes the US. [0]: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/ https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_American_Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_America... [2]: https://www.kff.org/health-reform/state-indicator/state-activity-around-expanding-medicaid-under-the-affordable-care-act/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22Location%22,%22sort%22:%22asc%22%7D# https://www.kff.org/health-reform/state-indicator/state-acti... [3]: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2016/08/02/number-of-refugees-to-europe-surges-to-record-1-3-million-in-2015/ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2016/08/02/number-of-refu... [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_Human_Development_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequalit...