4 ms·

There are a lot of factors involved here, sounds like you might've had a coalescence of fortuitous ones. I would not consider getting off shot freebie as the s

There are a lot of factors involved here, sounds like you might've had a coalescence of fortuitous ones. I would not consider getting off shot freebie as the standard input cost. Also I'm assuming your home is already well insulated like most homes in places with more serious winters. But the average house and older homes especially (in northeast esp) have poorer insulation. Heat pumps are still very expensive and for many need backup for extreme weather or require major inconvenience. Not to mention how expensive electricity is, and the fact that it's getting more expensive.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> But the average house and older homes especially (in northeast esp) have poorer insulation. insulation always pays for itself multiple times over. Why is rhere no financial oroduct like mortgage that wouldballow you to direct the energy saving from extra insulation into repaying installation cost ay favoirable tax-free terms and low interrest rate like mortgage?
- BlueTemplar 4y ago
  There are, in fact perhaps a bit too much, it has resulted in lots of insulation and heat pump scams lately (though perhaps not enough enforcement ?) See also how the real estate sector was whining in the recent years about the (quite mild !) new insulation laws, seemingly only caring about their short term profits. Well, hopefully they have shut up now (or maybe not, with, now that we ARE in the predicted crisis, serious laws coming up, and at the same time, the real estate bubble popping).
  - bfeynman 4y ago
    It's going to get worse now because the fed govt has a rebate to install heat pumps, I'd expect the same treatment people get for solar to come to that now, lots of companies cold calling trying to sell more of a financial instrument than actual product. I was really looking into one, and it was impractical due to weather but also not many local contractors were trained and servicing them, I expect more grifter types to pick it up.
- bfeynman 4y ago
  That does sound like something places should offer. I know some ESCOs and providers offer like free thermal imaging of your home. While insulation is relatively cheap, often the worst culprits are poorly insulated windows and any penetrations to exterior. Those are much more expensive, window replacement can easily run 20k.
- nradov 4y ago
  You can use a HELOC for insulation upgrades, just like any other home improvement project.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    If I just bought a house with shit insulation with mortgage, is HELOC gonna help me?
    - nradov 4y ago
      Why did you buy a house with shit insulation?
BlueTemplar 4y ago
Yeah, that depends on your situation... I recently got into a discussion with someone complaining how her heating bill doubled in a year, so she has to skimp on heating or cooking because she cannot afford it any more. She has gas heating, while I have electric (which got something like +75%, but starting from a lower baseline), and I don't even have a heat pump ! But then my insulation is average (and I haven't even started heating yet, though to be fair should have for at least one week, this winter is insanely warm so far), while hers is supposedly very bad, probably one of those apartments who have been recently announced will be illegal to rent soon. And she got furthermore protected by the government which froze gas prices - someone will have to eventually pay those ×5-×10 bills ! In the medium-long term, methane is probably less viable than electricity, which is easier to transport and can come from a variety of sources including 60% efficient gas turbines.
- bfeynman 4y ago
  I agree with last point, and you can see some effects of that now where they are no longer building underground gas lines and such for full new constructions and developments in some places. However, aging and unreliable infrastructure which will never be replaced until it's completely destroyed will mean that nat gas will stick around for a long time.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago

> But the average house and older homes especially (in northeast esp) have poorer insulation. insulation always pays for itself multiple times over. Why is rhere no financial oroduct like mortgage that wouldballow you to direct the energy saving from extra insulation into repaying installation cost ay favoirable tax-free terms and low interrest rate like mortgage?

BlueTemplar 4y ago
There are, in fact perhaps a bit too much, it has resulted in lots of insulation and heat pump scams lately (though perhaps not enough enforcement ?) See also how the real estate sector was whining in the recent years about the (quite mild !) new insulation laws, seemingly only caring about their short term profits. Well, hopefully they have shut up now (or maybe not, with, now that we ARE in the predicted crisis, serious laws coming up, and at the same time, the real estate bubble popping).
- bfeynman 4y ago
  It's going to get worse now because the fed govt has a rebate to install heat pumps, I'd expect the same treatment people get for solar to come to that now, lots of companies cold calling trying to sell more of a financial instrument than actual product. I was really looking into one, and it was impractical due to weather but also not many local contractors were trained and servicing them, I expect more grifter types to pick it up.
bfeynman 4y ago
That does sound like something places should offer. I know some ESCOs and providers offer like free thermal imaging of your home. While insulation is relatively cheap, often the worst culprits are poorly insulated windows and any penetrations to exterior. Those are much more expensive, window replacement can easily run 20k.
nradov 4y ago
You can use a HELOC for insulation upgrades, just like any other home improvement project.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  If I just bought a house with shit insulation with mortgage, is HELOC gonna help me?
  - nradov 4y ago
    Why did you buy a house with shit insulation?

BlueTemplar 4y ago

Yeah, that depends on your situation... I recently got into a discussion with someone complaining how her heating bill doubled in a year, so she has to skimp on heating or cooking because she cannot afford it any more. She has gas heating, while I have electric (which got something like +75%, but starting from a lower baseline), and I don't even have a heat pump ! But then my insulation is average (and I haven't even started heating yet, though to be fair should have for at least one week, this winter is insanely warm so far), while hers is supposedly very bad, probably one of those apartments who have been recently announced will be illegal to rent soon. And she got furthermore protected by the government which froze gas prices - someone will have to eventually pay those ×5-×10 bills ! In the medium-long term, methane is probably less viable than electricity, which is easier to transport and can come from a variety of sources including 60% efficient gas turbines.

bfeynman 4y ago
I agree with last point, and you can see some effects of that now where they are no longer building underground gas lines and such for full new constructions and developments in some places. However, aging and unreliable infrastructure which will never be replaced until it's completely destroyed will mean that nat gas will stick around for a long time.