10 ms·

I'm glad your issues were sorted, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that you need to make a social media post to get a customer service issue resolved. This

I'm glad your issues were sorted, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that you need to make a social media post to get a customer service issue resolved. This isn't just stripe. I see this with many other companies on social media. I don't post on Twitter, and I'd rather not put my account details for some service I use in a public forum. It's starting to seem like for too many companies, resolving public complaints has become a line item in the marketing budget.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
Sadly, this has been a thing for a while. As a T-Mobile customer, at one point, it eventually took me to put a request via Twitter to get the matter resolved in 20 minutes as opposed to previously spending hours on the phone with tech support ( with no results to show for it ). It is, quite frankly, infuriating; especially for a telecom. edit: I genuinely do not get why it took Twitter referral in my case either ( it was a technical matter of moving one phone number from carrier to another, but do they have their 'A team' for social media only?). Well, did. No idea what Twitter looks like now.
- whoosh3 4y ago
  I share your frustration with T-Mobile. Now, even the Twitter reps are outsourced. The basic chat reps <> TForce. If you @TForce on Twitter it's usually quick and easy. IIRC, those reps are domestic. Porting numbers is a little complex but doable by regular reps. Source: Used to do tech support at T-Mobile.
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  They have their "A" team on social media, but not the "A" team you are referring to. The marketing department runs social media and they have importance/power, unlike the customer support line you get to call.
- mint2 4y ago
  The reason it take a Twitter referral is that the phone reps usually are “subcontractors” that aren’t allowed to do anything. There’s a good chance they have to meet absurd metrics in order not to get fired. This linked article explains why in many cases a companies phone support can’t do much and is also mistreated. https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service-reps-for-disney-and-airbnb-who-have-to-pay-to-talk-to-you https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service...
  - anakaine 4y ago
    Clearly one of those metrics isn't low wait times. Another is certainly not 99.9% case resolution or escalation.
  - Michelangelo11 4y ago
    Right, they really just function as frustration absorbers more than anything else.
- randomdata 4y ago
  Last time I had to speak to my telecom operator, which granted has been a while, Twitter was clearly where business took place. Interactions were always pleasant meeting them in the right place. Isn't calling them by phone, as if you're still stuck in the 1950s, like showing up at the back door at a restaurant and wondering why you weren't greeted by the host and seated promptly? Maybe the surly dishwasher will eventually notice you standing there, but why would their 'A team' be there waiting for you?
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    Hmm. It is an interesting question. Personally, this is one of the things I credit Amazon with ( "removing friction","customer obsession" ). Whether I call, chat or send an email, the result is a consistent and decent customer service that can get stuff done ( and where it can't, it can escalate to those that can ). I am not sure you should equate me signing up for a 3rd party broker not only accepted, but a given. I personally do not believe it is old fashioned to have your business reachable by phone, when things go wrong ( in fact, I am not sure how Google and others have been able to get away with it so far ). In other words, it is nice that T-Mobile extends their online presence to accommodate social media, but they may want to stick to their core strengths, because this is what I actually pay them for. In your restaurant example, I go to a restaurant and I am greeted by a pimp, who happens to know Maître d' and can get you a good seat as a result. This is ok for some and I accept some people choose this as their default option. I like to go the actual restaurant ( T-mobile webpage or their call center ). << why would their 'A team' be there waiting for you? Because I am a paying customer. That is why.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      > I personally do not believe it is old fashioned to have your business reachable by phone You can reach them by phone, but it's not the way things are commonly done, so you're going to get suboptimal results. You can also mail them a letter (the snail mail kind), but I expect you'll receive even poorer results than by phone doing so given that it is even less common to conduct business by mail. For better or worse there is only so much time in the day so you have to focus on what works for the 90% common case and just try your best for the remaining 10%. > Because I am a paying customer. That is why. You're paying for something, but apparently not phone support, else you would not be a paying customer anymore when they failed to provide what you thought you were paying for. What is in it for them to provide you something that you're not paying for?
pastor_bob 4y ago
Public shaming and social media managers are probably more flexible than customer support, if it even exists, (i.e. they can forward a complaint to the right people). I'm sure there is a solution to better solve these 'problems' that pop up but not something high on the list for most places to pursue.
d883kd8 4y ago
There's this other thing where instead of posting your Complaint to HN you can file your Complaint in a court of law, it's kind of like an analog version of Zendesk that every company has to use.
- bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
  And it takes a thousand times as long and infinitely more money than posting a complaint online.
  - cjbgkagh 4y ago
    Small claims court is pretty good if it’s available to you and most disputes probably fit within the limits. These courts deal with corporate malfeasance quite a bit so they’ve likely seen it before. They’ll often penalize the offending company with 2x+ damages and if the company still won’t pay you can get a bailiff to come with you to go impounding assets. They use fire sale prices to offset the debt so it costs the company way more to let you walk off with assets than it does to cut you a check. So usually by that stage they relent and pay you your judgement.
    - jimnotgym 4y ago
      In the UK you couldn't claim $400k through small-claims, it is limited to £10k. Is it that high in the US? You also can't get 2x damages, or a fast process!
      - cjbgkagh 4y ago
        > if it’s available to you and most disputes probably fit within the limits
      - criddell 4y ago
        Small claims is definitely less than $400k. In Texas the limit is $20k. It probably doesn't really matter though. Your contact with Stripe probably requires arbitration but that isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Check out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31567673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31567673
Trias11 4y ago
Customer support is a liability and every large company will allocate absolutely minimal possible resources to any liability. This of course can backfire via social media into negative reputation and some repeated bad behaviors can landslide into class action. But large companies are willing to accept such risk and will continue such pattern.
- butlerm 4y ago
  $400,000 in withheld funds is not the sort of thing you should just place on the back burner and ignore while your client fumes. It is business malpractice, the sort of thing you could get sued over and be penalized heavily for, if not merely lose your customers and blacken your reputation everywhere. Businesses that do not resolve problems like this in less than twenty four hours deserve to go out of business.
  - teraflop 4y ago
    The great thing about holding $400,000 of your customer's money is that that's $400,000 they can't spend on suing you.
    - hackbinary 4y ago
      Absolutely not true. There are many lawyers that will take cases on a "no win, no fee" basis. Clearly Stripe was in breach in this circumstance, and courts look dimly on that kind of behaviour.
cjbgkagh 4y ago
Someday it’ll be cheaper to suppress negative views on social media than to address them. Until then I’ll enjoy the good times that come with being able to shame big companies in public.
- james_pm 4y ago
  Twitter Blue Plus - boosts your @ messages sent to verified companies to shame them more effectively.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - jaredsohn 4y ago
    Based on what you replied to, I thought you were going to say that Twitter Blue Plus allows you to suppress posts written about your company
    - csomar 4y ago
      Elon musk was tweeting the other day about a premium option to "nuke" the tweets you dislike. The nuke will be delivered with a SpaceX rocket.
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      That’s next weeks plan.
    - yifanl 4y ago
      That's coming out with Twitter Gold Plus Plus
    - komadori 4y ago
      Twitter Business Pro customers can suppress tweets from Free, Blue, and Blue Plus accounts for a small fee per tweet. However, if you want to suppress tweets from Gold, Platinum, or Platinum Plus accounts then you'll need to reach out to Twitter Enterprise Sales to discuss your needs further. /s
nikanj 4y ago
Making the post is not enough, you also have to get it to the front page of Reddit or HN
- TheCapn 4y ago
  Yep. I had an issue with Apex Legends and after the support channel failed me I attempted to engage with Respawn users on Reddit/Twitter when my post got 5 upvotes. Ignored on all accounts. It feels criminal to have some automated system remove your access to a paid application with no recourse, but that's modern Customer Service it seems.
jlokier 4y ago
After 5 days of trying to get my bank account at Revolut unblocked so I could pay my rent with the cash locked up in it, having chatted with maybe 5 representatives, waited for hours each time (their only official contact channel was in-app chat and you had to wait hours for a response), got told "since you are not replying I'm closing this chat" a couple of times in the middle of the night while I was asleep having sent a query hours before, and uploaded requested photos of documents, cards and id... I took someone's advice and posted to their Facebook chat. The account was unblocked within 20 minutes. Their social media person miraculously had the ability to ask someone to fix the problem, who miraculously got in touch within a few minutes and pressed the miraculous "fix problem" button in Revolut, which a series of "customer support" agents somehow couldn't do for most of a week.
- tentacleuno 4y ago
  I've had experiences with Revolut, too. I only use them for their stocks feature, in which I have shares. Once they're sold, I'll move all the money over to Free trade (which is honestly way better IMO). So, that, along with having a handy backup debit card handy, should I have to max out the ATM limit on my other two cards :-)
- exadeci 4y ago
  In my experience community managers are in the actual offices of the companies whilst support are a 3rd party overseas. So the CM is able to walk to someone's desk and get it fixed while the support can only try and escalate through their system.
- TAForObvReasons 4y ago
  Frontline support is oftentimes outsourced to firms like Arise Virtual Solutions [1] and workers typically have very little authority to escalate or fix more complex issues. Social media people usually have channels to marketing and other teams and are explicitly instructed to escalate the "trending" cases [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service-reps-for-disney-and-airbnb-who-have-to-pay-to-talk-to-you https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service...
wpietri 4y ago
One of the things I think about is the difference between shame and guilt. I've heard the difference described as shame being about failing other people's standards, while guilt is about failing your own. I think many companies don't have much in the way of internal standards. As long as the revenue graph goes up and to the right, few will question anything. But they do have PR teams that recognize the brand as valuable. So unfortunately what we have left is shaming them via social media.
richardw 4y ago
The company I’ve spent the last 5 years at (just resigned to emigrate) has a rule. If you come across an unhappy customer and don’t do anything, you should be fired. 10k employees, insurance, banking. Nobody moaned because we understand the reasons for it. I embraced it and have escalated many calls. In a world of indifference, that’s a solid stake in the ground.
- ethbr0 4y ago
  A well-known home improvement retailer has a similar rule: you take the time to help anyone with an issue resolve it, or directly hand them off to another employee who can help. No pointing and then ignoring. Or email forwarding and then ignoring. Granted, everyone is busy and it isn't always followed, but as a guiding organizational foundation one can do a lot worse.
  - richardw 4y ago
    Ours was anywhere. You come across what seems like a frustrated client in a pharmacy, you identify yourself and help. I've helped people who expressed anger at social events. Can't always fix the issue but the company's app has a place for staff to escalate, so it's easy to kickstart the process.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
xwdv 4y ago
If this is the way things are going, then there should be some kind of influencer types with large clout who can bring up these sort of cases on behalf of an anonymous party. Imagine having no real social media footprint or even a bad reputation with lots of downvoted posts. How are you supposed to resolve your issues when a company has decided no one would give a shit about you if you complained? You need someone to vouch for you and help you hold their feet to the fire, you need an individual who will tell your story to an audience that is too expensive to disappoint.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  If this is the way things are going, then there should be some kind of influencer types with large clout who can bring up these sort of cases on behalf of an anonymous party. These have existed in newspapers for at least a half a century. There's a nationally-syndicated travel expert who does nothing but travel customer service with plenty of name-and-shame.

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

Sadly, this has been a thing for a while. As a T-Mobile customer, at one point, it eventually took me to put a request via Twitter to get the matter resolved in 20 minutes as opposed to previously spending hours on the phone with tech support ( with no results to show for it ). It is, quite frankly, infuriating; especially for a telecom. edit: I genuinely do not get why it took Twitter referral in my case either ( it was a technical matter of moving one phone number from carrier to another, but do they have their 'A team' for social media only?). Well, did. No idea what Twitter looks like now.

whoosh3 4y ago
I share your frustration with T-Mobile. Now, even the Twitter reps are outsourced. The basic chat reps <> TForce. If you @TForce on Twitter it's usually quick and easy. IIRC, those reps are domestic. Porting numbers is a little complex but doable by regular reps. Source: Used to do tech support at T-Mobile.
Consultant32452 4y ago
They have their "A" team on social media, but not the "A" team you are referring to. The marketing department runs social media and they have importance/power, unlike the customer support line you get to call.
mint2 4y ago
The reason it take a Twitter referral is that the phone reps usually are “subcontractors” that aren’t allowed to do anything. There’s a good chance they have to meet absurd metrics in order not to get fired. This linked article explains why in many cases a companies phone support can’t do much and is also mistreated. https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service-reps-for-disney-and-airbnb-who-have-to-pay-to-talk-to-you https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service...
- anakaine 4y ago
  Clearly one of those metrics isn't low wait times. Another is certainly not 99.9% case resolution or escalation.
- Michelangelo11 4y ago
  Right, they really just function as frustration absorbers more than anything else.
randomdata 4y ago
Last time I had to speak to my telecom operator, which granted has been a while, Twitter was clearly where business took place. Interactions were always pleasant meeting them in the right place. Isn't calling them by phone, as if you're still stuck in the 1950s, like showing up at the back door at a restaurant and wondering why you weren't greeted by the host and seated promptly? Maybe the surly dishwasher will eventually notice you standing there, but why would their 'A team' be there waiting for you?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  Hmm. It is an interesting question. Personally, this is one of the things I credit Amazon with ( "removing friction","customer obsession" ). Whether I call, chat or send an email, the result is a consistent and decent customer service that can get stuff done ( and where it can't, it can escalate to those that can ). I am not sure you should equate me signing up for a 3rd party broker not only accepted, but a given. I personally do not believe it is old fashioned to have your business reachable by phone, when things go wrong ( in fact, I am not sure how Google and others have been able to get away with it so far ). In other words, it is nice that T-Mobile extends their online presence to accommodate social media, but they may want to stick to their core strengths, because this is what I actually pay them for. In your restaurant example, I go to a restaurant and I am greeted by a pimp, who happens to know Maître d' and can get you a good seat as a result. This is ok for some and I accept some people choose this as their default option. I like to go the actual restaurant ( T-mobile webpage or their call center ). << why would their 'A team' be there waiting for you? Because I am a paying customer. That is why.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > I personally do not believe it is old fashioned to have your business reachable by phone You can reach them by phone, but it's not the way things are commonly done, so you're going to get suboptimal results. You can also mail them a letter (the snail mail kind), but I expect you'll receive even poorer results than by phone doing so given that it is even less common to conduct business by mail. For better or worse there is only so much time in the day so you have to focus on what works for the 90% common case and just try your best for the remaining 10%. > Because I am a paying customer. That is why. You're paying for something, but apparently not phone support, else you would not be a paying customer anymore when they failed to provide what you thought you were paying for. What is in it for them to provide you something that you're not paying for?

pastor_bob 4y ago

Public shaming and social media managers are probably more flexible than customer support, if it even exists, (i.e. they can forward a complaint to the right people). I'm sure there is a solution to better solve these 'problems' that pop up but not something high on the list for most places to pursue.

d883kd8 4y ago

There's this other thing where instead of posting your Complaint to HN you can file your Complaint in a court of law, it's kind of like an analog version of Zendesk that every company has to use.

bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
And it takes a thousand times as long and infinitely more money than posting a complaint online.
- cjbgkagh 4y ago
  Small claims court is pretty good if it’s available to you and most disputes probably fit within the limits. These courts deal with corporate malfeasance quite a bit so they’ve likely seen it before. They’ll often penalize the offending company with 2x+ damages and if the company still won’t pay you can get a bailiff to come with you to go impounding assets. They use fire sale prices to offset the debt so it costs the company way more to let you walk off with assets than it does to cut you a check. So usually by that stage they relent and pay you your judgement.
  - jimnotgym 4y ago
    In the UK you couldn't claim $400k through small-claims, it is limited to £10k. Is it that high in the US? You also can't get 2x damages, or a fast process!
    - cjbgkagh 4y ago
      > if it’s available to you and most disputes probably fit within the limits
    - criddell 4y ago
      Small claims is definitely less than $400k. In Texas the limit is $20k. It probably doesn't really matter though. Your contact with Stripe probably requires arbitration but that isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Check out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31567673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31567673

Trias11 4y ago

Customer support is a liability and every large company will allocate absolutely minimal possible resources to any liability. This of course can backfire via social media into negative reputation and some repeated bad behaviors can landslide into class action. But large companies are willing to accept such risk and will continue such pattern.

butlerm 4y ago
$400,000 in withheld funds is not the sort of thing you should just place on the back burner and ignore while your client fumes. It is business malpractice, the sort of thing you could get sued over and be penalized heavily for, if not merely lose your customers and blacken your reputation everywhere. Businesses that do not resolve problems like this in less than twenty four hours deserve to go out of business.
- teraflop 4y ago
  The great thing about holding $400,000 of your customer's money is that that's $400,000 they can't spend on suing you.
  - hackbinary 4y ago
    Absolutely not true. There are many lawyers that will take cases on a "no win, no fee" basis. Clearly Stripe was in breach in this circumstance, and courts look dimly on that kind of behaviour.

cjbgkagh 4y ago

Someday it’ll be cheaper to suppress negative views on social media than to address them. Until then I’ll enjoy the good times that come with being able to shame big companies in public.

james_pm 4y ago
Twitter Blue Plus - boosts your @ messages sent to verified companies to shame them more effectively.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jaredsohn 4y ago
  Based on what you replied to, I thought you were going to say that Twitter Blue Plus allows you to suppress posts written about your company
  - csomar 4y ago
    Elon musk was tweeting the other day about a premium option to "nuke" the tweets you dislike. The nuke will be delivered with a SpaceX rocket.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    That’s next weeks plan.
  - yifanl 4y ago
    That's coming out with Twitter Gold Plus Plus
  - komadori 4y ago
    Twitter Business Pro customers can suppress tweets from Free, Blue, and Blue Plus accounts for a small fee per tweet. However, if you want to suppress tweets from Gold, Platinum, or Platinum Plus accounts then you'll need to reach out to Twitter Enterprise Sales to discuss your needs further. /s

nikanj 4y ago

Making the post is not enough, you also have to get it to the front page of Reddit or HN

TheCapn 4y ago
Yep. I had an issue with Apex Legends and after the support channel failed me I attempted to engage with Respawn users on Reddit/Twitter when my post got 5 upvotes. Ignored on all accounts. It feels criminal to have some automated system remove your access to a paid application with no recourse, but that's modern Customer Service it seems.

jlokier 4y ago

After 5 days of trying to get my bank account at Revolut unblocked so I could pay my rent with the cash locked up in it, having chatted with maybe 5 representatives, waited for hours each time (their only official contact channel was in-app chat and you had to wait hours for a response), got told "since you are not replying I'm closing this chat" a couple of times in the middle of the night while I was asleep having sent a query hours before, and uploaded requested photos of documents, cards and id... I took someone's advice and posted to their Facebook chat. The account was unblocked within 20 minutes. Their social media person miraculously had the ability to ask someone to fix the problem, who miraculously got in touch within a few minutes and pressed the miraculous "fix problem" button in Revolut, which a series of "customer support" agents somehow couldn't do for most of a week.

tentacleuno 4y ago
I've had experiences with Revolut, too. I only use them for their stocks feature, in which I have shares. Once they're sold, I'll move all the money over to Free trade (which is honestly way better IMO). So, that, along with having a handy backup debit card handy, should I have to max out the ATM limit on my other two cards :-)
exadeci 4y ago
In my experience community managers are in the actual offices of the companies whilst support are a 3rd party overseas. So the CM is able to walk to someone's desk and get it fixed while the support can only try and escalate through their system.
TAForObvReasons 4y ago
Frontline support is oftentimes outsourced to firms like Arise Virtual Solutions [1] and workers typically have very little authority to escalate or fix more complex issues. Social media people usually have channels to marketing and other teams and are explicitly instructed to escalate the "trending" cases [1] https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service-reps-for-disney-and-airbnb-who-have-to-pay-to-talk-to-you https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-the-customer-service...

wpietri 4y ago

One of the things I think about is the difference between shame and guilt. I've heard the difference described as shame being about failing other people's standards, while guilt is about failing your own. I think many companies don't have much in the way of internal standards. As long as the revenue graph goes up and to the right, few will question anything. But they do have PR teams that recognize the brand as valuable. So unfortunately what we have left is shaming them via social media.

richardw 4y ago

The company I’ve spent the last 5 years at (just resigned to emigrate) has a rule. If you come across an unhappy customer and don’t do anything, you should be fired. 10k employees, insurance, banking. Nobody moaned because we understand the reasons for it. I embraced it and have escalated many calls. In a world of indifference, that’s a solid stake in the ground.

ethbr0 4y ago
A well-known home improvement retailer has a similar rule: you take the time to help anyone with an issue resolve it, or directly hand them off to another employee who can help. No pointing and then ignoring. Or email forwarding and then ignoring. Granted, everyone is busy and it isn't always followed, but as a guiding organizational foundation one can do a lot worse.
- richardw 4y ago
  Ours was anywhere. You come across what seems like a frustrated client in a pharmacy, you identify yourself and help. I've helped people who expressed anger at social events. Can't always fix the issue but the company's app has a place for staff to escalate, so it's easy to kickstart the process.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

xwdv 4y ago

If this is the way things are going, then there should be some kind of influencer types with large clout who can bring up these sort of cases on behalf of an anonymous party. Imagine having no real social media footprint or even a bad reputation with lots of downvoted posts. How are you supposed to resolve your issues when a company has decided no one would give a shit about you if you complained? You need someone to vouch for you and help you hold their feet to the fire, you need an individual who will tell your story to an audience that is too expensive to disappoint.

reaperducer 4y ago
If this is the way things are going, then there should be some kind of influencer types with large clout who can bring up these sort of cases on behalf of an anonymous party. These have existed in newspapers for at least a half a century. There's a nationally-syndicated travel expert who does nothing but travel customer service with plenty of name-and-shame.