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Yeah, this is real. Men still tend to get erased from the parental equation to a large degree. And this doesn't just affect stay at home dads. Much of the di
by dbingham 4y ago
Yeah, this is real. Men still tend to get erased from the parental equation to a large degree. And this doesn't just affect stay at home dads. Much of the dialog around pregnancy loss and childloss seems to forget that there's often a father involved as well, and that the loss impacts both parents. When we lost our first child to a still birth, people would often focus entirely on my wife when offering sympathy and comfort. The assumption was often that I was supporting her through the loss, not that I was also someone experiencing the loss who needed support. This is problematic on multiple levels, but on a very basic level it just made it that much harder for me to grieve the loss and made me feel erased.
That said, I don't think it makes sense to connect the issues surrounding the ways in which men and women are still gendered in society, our resulting assumptions, and the harm they do with this particular problem. Because I think this particular problem affects both men and women, though with perhaps some differences in affect that are worth calling out because of the aforementioned gender roles and assumptions.
I haven't read the referenced book, but I would separate this problem from the one described in the book. I think we're reinforcing those stereotypes when we frame the general problem of "people not having work" as being specific to men.
Even beyond that, I would challenge the whole notion that people need to be included in the workforce. I think we're framing the problem wrong when we look at it that way. People need to be economically secure, they need to have deep connection to communities, and they need to have something meaningful to do with their time. Right now, many people only get those things from work. This is true of both men and women, plenty of women talk about loss of identity and struggle finding community when they become stay at home parents.
So I would argue that the book is taking the wrong framing - both in focusing on men and in taking the wrong assumptions, or perhaps, the wrong ordering.
- garettmd 4y agoI remember during most interactions with healthcare providers during my wife and I's pregnancies, hardly anyone ever talked to me, sometimes never even looking at me. I get it, I'm not the one carrying a baby to term, but I would have thought the fact that I was showing up to all these appointments, staying by my wife's side, taking part in decisions, and supporting her and the baby through the whole thing would have granted me a bit of acknowledgement of my role and investment in the whole process. But many times people acted like I wasn't even there. I can't imagine having to deal with that dynamic with what you went through, and am so sorry for your loss.
- chasd00 4y agoi know exactly what you mean. I remember an early doc appointment with my wife she was pregnant with our first child, the doctor was going over things with my wife like what she should be doing and what she should not be doing etc. I asked the doctor what i should be doing and what i should look out for, she just glared at me and said "you've done enough." implying i was only there to get my wife pregnant. That was 13 years ago but i still remember it vividly.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoI cannot relate to yours or garettmd’s experience, on both east or west coast of USA. There was lots of information for me (the dad) by the OB, and during the class about birthing we took for our first. This was in last 5 years.
- watwut 4y agoI mean, what you think doctor should tell you about what you should be doing while wife is pregnant? If the wife wants your support, I would expect the wife to tell you what kind of support she needs. She does not need doctor to be her speaker, presumably. And doctor giving you instructions on what she should be doing in pregnancy would be patronizing toward wife.
- unholythree 4y agoIf we take the poster with good faith we can assume he genuinely thought the doctor might know some useful ways he could be of help that neither he nor his wife knew. Even if there wasn't (which seems unlikely to me) I feel like good bedside manner should extend to a patient's loved ones when possible. Simply addressing him politely to say "Just be available and help as you can." would have be a far kinder way to blow off an anxious person.
- chasd00 4y agoA good example of something a doctor could tell the other half is like “if she can’t get out of bed and you take her blood pressure and it’s X then call me but if it’s Y then call 911”. Those are important things a partner needs to know during a pregnancy.