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i think it’s clear this was a huge mistake. none of these changes were critical to pythons current success. python stalled for 10 years if not more because of t

i think it’s clear this was a huge mistake. none of these changes were critical to pythons current success. python stalled for 10 years if not more because of these non-BC changes. it will fragmented indefinitely. this is a good case study of how one big ego can completely derail a massive project for decades

EdwardDiego 4y ago
It won't be fragmented indefinitely, that claim might've carried some weight five years ago, but these days I see very few Python libraries that still support Python 2.7. And, if they do, it strongly implies that they've not been maintained for some time. (See also, a dependency on six) - with the caveat that sometimes you don't need to continually upgrade a library that fills its desired niche perfectly. Hell, if you're still using 3.6 you're limited in your ability to upgrade dependencies, 3.8 is generally the minimum supported Python version these days.
- TylerE 4y ago
  The people it lost are going to things other than python3.
  - ironmagma 4y ago
    Yeah, I mean personally the only thing that would keep me in the community is wxPython, which AFAIK still only supports Py2.
    - oefrha 4y ago
      The last wxPython release that even supported py27 was from close to three years ago, and you would have known if you spent half a minute looking into it before making an absurd claim.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - ironmagma 4y ago
        > Assume good faith. I tried using the library less than a year ago. I must have missed something. This would be great news… if the way you told me didn’t make me feel like shit.
    - MissTake 4y ago
      [dead]
  - EdwardDiego 4y ago
    Not disagreeing.
  - spicybright 4y ago
    Is that true? I have little data, but I'd imagine most are just working on small/mid size scripts that can be upgraded easily. There's really not many big projects your average joe will be coding in python, from what I've seen. Where would they go from python? Node?
  - danaris 4y ago
    Even if that's true, it's extremely obvious that Python is the language of choice for some very hot subfields at the moment—things like ML, computer vision, etc. It may have lost a lot of people who got frustrated by the 2->3 transition, but Python is clearly not in a bad place as a language today.
- mort96 4y ago
  Python is still fragmented 12 years on. It might eventually get fixed, but it still isn't. Most actively maintained Python code works with Python 3 now, but there's still a whole lot of even maintained code which uses `#!/usr/bin/env python`.
nerdponx 4y ago
Can you explain how exactly Python stalled as a result?
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
  A lot of devs were busy with the busywork of migration rather than improving their libraries. For a long while you often got stuck between one critical library that has no alternative only supporting 2, with a second critical library for some other thing that also has no alternative only supporting 3. So doing your project in Python wasn't feasible.

EdwardDiego 4y ago

It won't be fragmented indefinitely, that claim might've carried some weight five years ago, but these days I see very few Python libraries that still support Python 2.7. And, if they do, it strongly implies that they've not been maintained for some time. (See also, a dependency on six) - with the caveat that sometimes you don't need to continually upgrade a library that fills its desired niche perfectly. Hell, if you're still using 3.6 you're limited in your ability to upgrade dependencies, 3.8 is generally the minimum supported Python version these days.

TylerE 4y ago
The people it lost are going to things other than python3.
- ironmagma 4y ago
  Yeah, I mean personally the only thing that would keep me in the community is wxPython, which AFAIK still only supports Py2.
  - oefrha 4y ago
    The last wxPython release that even supported py27 was from close to three years ago, and you would have known if you spent half a minute looking into it before making an absurd claim.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - ironmagma 4y ago
      > Assume good faith. I tried using the library less than a year ago. I must have missed something. This would be great news… if the way you told me didn’t make me feel like shit.
  - MissTake 4y ago
    [dead]
- EdwardDiego 4y ago
  Not disagreeing.
- spicybright 4y ago
  Is that true? I have little data, but I'd imagine most are just working on small/mid size scripts that can be upgraded easily. There's really not many big projects your average joe will be coding in python, from what I've seen. Where would they go from python? Node?
- danaris 4y ago
  Even if that's true, it's extremely obvious that Python is the language of choice for some very hot subfields at the moment—things like ML, computer vision, etc. It may have lost a lot of people who got frustrated by the 2->3 transition, but Python is clearly not in a bad place as a language today.
mort96 4y ago
Python is still fragmented 12 years on. It might eventually get fixed, but it still isn't. Most actively maintained Python code works with Python 3 now, but there's still a whole lot of even maintained code which uses `#!/usr/bin/env python`.

nerdponx 4y ago

Can you explain how exactly Python stalled as a result?

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
A lot of devs were busy with the busywork of migration rather than improving their libraries. For a long while you often got stuck between one critical library that has no alternative only supporting 2, with a second critical library for some other thing that also has no alternative only supporting 3. So doing your project in Python wasn't feasible.