46 ms·

These are funny, and their humor should be treated of how evidence of malfeasance really reveals itself: not in smoke-filled rooms, but silly emails between CEO

These are funny, and their humor should be treated of how evidence of malfeasance really reveals itself: not in smoke-filled rooms, but silly emails between CEOs beefing over a talented employee.

fragmede 4y ago
Given the millions of dollars in damages these emails caused, I'm pretty sure they went back to unsubpoenable smoke filled rooms, minus the smoke. Hell, the CEO of Twitter flew especially to Apple HQ to get their advertising spend reinstated. He wouldn't have done that if whatever he needed to say could've been said over email.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  I suspect corporate collusion (and a fair amount of arranging corrupt mutual back-scratching for purely personal gain) like this is the bulk of the nefarious activity that actually goes on at all those various weird secret rich-people club meetings/getaways that are in fact real things and often serve as fodder for various far-wilder conspiracy theories.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    FWIW, this is the one good thing about loss of privacy and people actually tracking private jet movements of the really wealthy that those are a little bit harder to hide. Not impossible. Just harder.
  - quartesixte 4y ago
    Suspect? This is literally what Country Clubs are for. Ever work on a project for the C-suite that had a lot of urgency, some strange amount of substance and a huge amount of bs that resulted in some huge action/deal but when you sit back and think about it nothing really of value was made? Yeah you just worked on the coverup for the country club deal that got made weeks ago.
- kortilla 4y ago
  >He wouldn't have done that if whatever he needed to say could've been said over email. No, this is likely not the reason in this particular case. If email were a replacement for face to fact negotiation, sales people would have stopped taking flights 25 years. Instead, sales at the b2b level is still filled with travel and relationship building. Humans like humans showing up in person and to blow smoke up their ass. They don’t say that but it’s what they really like and they respond to it in the form of being less ruthless when it comes to cutting ties, etc.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    >Humans like humans showing up in person and to blow smoke up their ass Humans also like that in person meeting to be a swanky ski village for them and their WaGs. Or some resort at an exotic beach location. Or some high end club. Or some other type of payola type of arrangement. Those are kind of hard to do over email
ActorNightly 4y ago
Probably not that funny to the engineer in question, and Im willing to bet that Jobs didn't once approach him and offer him more money to stay.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  I wouldn't make that bet. Jobs played favorites and I believe he was known to amply reward his favorites.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Would he reward a favorite who was just about to jump ship before he got the offer rescinded?
    - blitzar 4y ago
      > about to jump ship Sounds like a traitor to me ...
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    this email's aim is to suppress market wages. you're mythologizing and neglecting the market-wide knock-on effects of rampant illegal wage theft collusion like this.
    - shadowgovt 4y ago
      It doesn't appear to be. The email's intention appears to be accusing Google of poaching browser developers to build a competing browser to Safari. It's less about price and more about Apple changing their strategy if they conclude that a company they think is a partner has designs on competing directly with one of their key application offerings. Which, of course, they eventually did. If anything, I take this email to be indicative of how companies can lose sight of the effect on their actual employees of market strategization. Jobs isn't worried about having to pay his team more here; he's worried that he's about to see the world's largest online advertiser launch a browser that could cut Apple's control of their users' online experience out from under them. If anything, I don't think they're really thinking about how much people need to get paid (which is, indeed, a problem).
draw_down 4y ago
[dead]
capableweb 4y ago
I disagree, this seems unethical at best, from both sides of the aisle. > So a compromise would be to continue with the offer we have made (to [REDACTED]) but not to make offers to any of the others unless they get permission from Apple. This right here should be illegal. Where one chose to work should be 100% on your own accord. That a employer I want to work for/wants me to work for them would collude with my current employer to not hire me based on the whims of the CEO seems like a bad outcome for everyone, including the employer which would "retain" me.

These are funny, and their humor should be treated of how evidence of malfeasance really reveals itself: not in smoke-filled rooms, but silly emails between CEOs beefing over a talented employee.

fragmede 4y ago

Given the millions of dollars in damages these emails caused, I'm pretty sure they went back to unsubpoenable smoke filled rooms, minus the smoke. Hell, the CEO of Twitter flew especially to Apple HQ to get their advertising spend reinstated. He wouldn't have done that if whatever he needed to say could've been said over email.

yamtaddle 4y ago
I suspect corporate collusion (and a fair amount of arranging corrupt mutual back-scratching for purely personal gain) like this is the bulk of the nefarious activity that actually goes on at all those various weird secret rich-people club meetings/getaways that are in fact real things and often serve as fodder for various far-wilder conspiracy theories.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  FWIW, this is the one good thing about loss of privacy and people actually tracking private jet movements of the really wealthy that those are a little bit harder to hide. Not impossible. Just harder.
- quartesixte 4y ago
  Suspect? This is literally what Country Clubs are for. Ever work on a project for the C-suite that had a lot of urgency, some strange amount of substance and a huge amount of bs that resulted in some huge action/deal but when you sit back and think about it nothing really of value was made? Yeah you just worked on the coverup for the country club deal that got made weeks ago.
kortilla 4y ago
>He wouldn't have done that if whatever he needed to say could've been said over email. No, this is likely not the reason in this particular case. If email were a replacement for face to fact negotiation, sales people would have stopped taking flights 25 years. Instead, sales at the b2b level is still filled with travel and relationship building. Humans like humans showing up in person and to blow smoke up their ass. They don’t say that but it’s what they really like and they respond to it in the form of being less ruthless when it comes to cutting ties, etc.
- dylan604 4y ago
  >Humans like humans showing up in person and to blow smoke up their ass Humans also like that in person meeting to be a swanky ski village for them and their WaGs. Or some resort at an exotic beach location. Or some high end club. Or some other type of payola type of arrangement. Those are kind of hard to do over email

ActorNightly 4y ago

Probably not that funny to the engineer in question, and Im willing to bet that Jobs didn't once approach him and offer him more money to stay.

JKCalhoun 4y ago
I wouldn't make that bet. Jobs played favorites and I believe he was known to amply reward his favorites.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Would he reward a favorite who was just about to jump ship before he got the offer rescinded?
  - blitzar 4y ago
    > about to jump ship Sounds like a traitor to me ...
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  this email's aim is to suppress market wages. you're mythologizing and neglecting the market-wide knock-on effects of rampant illegal wage theft collusion like this.
  - shadowgovt 4y ago
    It doesn't appear to be. The email's intention appears to be accusing Google of poaching browser developers to build a competing browser to Safari. It's less about price and more about Apple changing their strategy if they conclude that a company they think is a partner has designs on competing directly with one of their key application offerings. Which, of course, they eventually did. If anything, I take this email to be indicative of how companies can lose sight of the effect on their actual employees of market strategization. Jobs isn't worried about having to pay his team more here; he's worried that he's about to see the world's largest online advertiser launch a browser that could cut Apple's control of their users' online experience out from under them. If anything, I don't think they're really thinking about how much people need to get paid (which is, indeed, a problem).

draw_down 4y ago

[dead]

capableweb 4y ago

I disagree, this seems unethical at best, from both sides of the aisle. > So a compromise would be to continue with the offer we have made (to [REDACTED]) but not to make offers to any of the others unless they get permission from Apple. This right here should be illegal. Where one chose to work should be 100% on your own accord. That a employer I want to work for/wants me to work for them would collude with my current employer to not hire me based on the whims of the CEO seems like a bad outcome for everyone, including the employer which would "retain" me.