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So I live in a small mountain town where we've seen a massive influx of foreign investors driving up the price of housing because they're coming here and paying

So I live in a small mountain town where we've seen a massive influx of foreign investors driving up the price of housing because they're coming here and paying off locals to find them houses to buy for a private holiday house. There are middle men who do the finding then flip the property for 500% of what they buy the house off a little old lady for, on selling it to a rich person from overseas, who use the house for 2 weeks of the year, price all the local would be family buyers out and now, because the investor paid so much for it, it will likely never been affordable to the people of this area again. The interesting thing about all this is that for the people buying, it's still so cheap it's like buying a car for them, so it's a massive detriment to the local community, and for those buying, it's like a rounding error in their bank account. Do you call this "blaming foreigners" wrong? Because the people who are organizing this scheme do understand they're ruining the local culture. I'm pretty sure people who are buying the houses are aware they're just storming in using their cash and not really trying to integrate at all, they're not stupid. What annoys m the most about these parasites, is they don't pay tax, they buy a property, use all the local resources I pay for as a tax payer, contribute zero to the local area. It is a type of invasion whether you like that word or not.

mavelikara 4y ago
Why are only foreign rich people, and not local ones, interested in your mountain town? > What annoys m the most about these parasites, is they don't pay tax, they buy a property, use all the local resources I pay for as a tax payer, contribute zero to the local area. Why are they exempt from property taxes?
- bamboozled 4y ago
  I don’t want to name countries but they’re buyers from a country where people have a lot of disposable cash, where I live people don’t have that kind of money, that’s why. The property taxes are a flat rate for everyone who lives here. This is to be fair everyone I guess. Anyway, whatever the tax is, it’s easy for the people with money to pay it, it’s not a disincentive. Property tax and income tax are different things. The people who own holiday houses don’t pay income tax here. Which is the bulk of the tax I pay.
  - mavelikara 4y ago
    Are the people who sold their houses to these foreigners at a high prices still in the community? Didn't you benefit from the taxes their windfall transaction generated?
    - bamboozled 4y ago
      Like I said in my previous post... There is a middle man, a foreigner who is not from this area, who is paying the locals little money, through coercion, dishonesty, taking advantage of kindness etc. He is also paying locals off to convince other locals, mostly elderly people to sell their places at a fairly low price, they're elderly and mostly just kind people who don't think about what's going on. They lie and tell them stories about why they need the property over others with less money. This sounds bad too, but there is a mentality with the locals that foreign people are nice, special, and they try to help them...I don't quite understand it but it exists. There is one other very important and interesting dynamic at play here which is this: Local people, are ashamed to leave the community, like they're letting the place down. Sometimes though, they know it would be best / easier if they left to be closer to hospitals etc. These people doing the property deals know this and they offer them confidentiality. Like, "if you come to me, and sell to me directly, I won't tell anyone anything". While this in itself sounds like almost a good service, it has one significant drawback for the seller, there is zero transparency on how much money they "could" be getting. Didn't you benefit from the taxes their windfall transaction generated? I'd say not really enough to matter, it's a once off payment, and honestly, what I think they're doing is, the "middle man" buys the house at say $50,000 USD, then sells it for the same, but they do the rest of the transaction off shore using "gift money" or other schemes to avoid the taxes. Honestly it's a total racket, the "middle man" is your classic rich guy type, lives here with security, priceless paintings, smokes cigars and drinks expensive whiskey, it's quite hilarious how much of a stereotype he is. I actually don't hate the person, I actually speak with him, he has told me he has had his life threatened before because of his work. People around here often joke about accidentally running the dude over. Nice job I guess? I will say that in a lot of cases, the local government could be doing more, so maybe that's why people say there's no point in blaming foreigners, but if they do implement something, apparently it will be "side stepped" according to 99% of Hackernewsers.
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  He said they're priced out. This means interested but without the wealth to outspend foreigners.
  - mavelikara 4y ago
    I was asking about the rich people in his county, who don't currently live in the mountain town.
    - fatbird 4y ago
      In Canada, the vast majority of rich foreigners buying property are American. Chinese investors, the favourite villain of the "rich foreigners" class, make up only about 4% of foreign real estate investment.
      - bamboozled 4y ago
        It would be funny though, if you were trying to say that Chinese foreign ownership isn't a problem in places in the world, because I mean, it's absolutely smashed Sydney's housing prices. Not saying there's anything "wrong" with any ethnic group, but there are sources of money in this world and some are particularly more present than others. I don't know why but I'd say Chinese foreign ownership is much lower in the USA than in Australia, parts of Asia. Either way, I'd say 4% is still a pretty large part of American real estate ?
        fatbird 4y ago
        Yeah, I wasn't fully clear. I'm talking about Canada, where Chinese investment is only 4%, contrary to perception that "Chinese money" is the source of our troubles. 4% is still a significant impact, but it's pretty much pure racism that singles out the Chinese as the primary driver.
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Aren't Chinese investments relatively restricted to Vancouver and Toronto areas? If that 4% is focused, it could have huge impact in those areas.
asdff 4y ago
How do you know they are foreign? Either way, if you live in say some little ski town, you are going to have people both foreign and domestic who want a ski lodge. That's just the order of things. As long as you throw your hands in the air and say "they are buying up our limited housing stock, lets do anything but make more housing stock" then people will continue to be priced out by those who can afford to compete on the finite amount of housing on offer. If you keep allowing for building and taxing to pay for infrastructure, however, growth will continue at a more sustainable rate until demand is eventually satiated and builders have less work, and there won't just be infinite demand either. There are limiting factors here too: maybe the ski resort has a finite number of lift tickets being sold per day, or maybe the local airport only sees so many flights per day.

mavelikara 4y ago

Why are only foreign rich people, and not local ones, interested in your mountain town? > What annoys m the most about these parasites, is they don't pay tax, they buy a property, use all the local resources I pay for as a tax payer, contribute zero to the local area. Why are they exempt from property taxes?

bamboozled 4y ago
I don’t want to name countries but they’re buyers from a country where people have a lot of disposable cash, where I live people don’t have that kind of money, that’s why. The property taxes are a flat rate for everyone who lives here. This is to be fair everyone I guess. Anyway, whatever the tax is, it’s easy for the people with money to pay it, it’s not a disincentive. Property tax and income tax are different things. The people who own holiday houses don’t pay income tax here. Which is the bulk of the tax I pay.
- mavelikara 4y ago
  Are the people who sold their houses to these foreigners at a high prices still in the community? Didn't you benefit from the taxes their windfall transaction generated?
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    Like I said in my previous post... There is a middle man, a foreigner who is not from this area, who is paying the locals little money, through coercion, dishonesty, taking advantage of kindness etc. He is also paying locals off to convince other locals, mostly elderly people to sell their places at a fairly low price, they're elderly and mostly just kind people who don't think about what's going on. They lie and tell them stories about why they need the property over others with less money. This sounds bad too, but there is a mentality with the locals that foreign people are nice, special, and they try to help them...I don't quite understand it but it exists. There is one other very important and interesting dynamic at play here which is this: Local people, are ashamed to leave the community, like they're letting the place down. Sometimes though, they know it would be best / easier if they left to be closer to hospitals etc. These people doing the property deals know this and they offer them confidentiality. Like, "if you come to me, and sell to me directly, I won't tell anyone anything". While this in itself sounds like almost a good service, it has one significant drawback for the seller, there is zero transparency on how much money they "could" be getting. Didn't you benefit from the taxes their windfall transaction generated? I'd say not really enough to matter, it's a once off payment, and honestly, what I think they're doing is, the "middle man" buys the house at say $50,000 USD, then sells it for the same, but they do the rest of the transaction off shore using "gift money" or other schemes to avoid the taxes. Honestly it's a total racket, the "middle man" is your classic rich guy type, lives here with security, priceless paintings, smokes cigars and drinks expensive whiskey, it's quite hilarious how much of a stereotype he is. I actually don't hate the person, I actually speak with him, he has told me he has had his life threatened before because of his work. People around here often joke about accidentally running the dude over. Nice job I guess? I will say that in a lot of cases, the local government could be doing more, so maybe that's why people say there's no point in blaming foreigners, but if they do implement something, apparently it will be "side stepped" according to 99% of Hackernewsers.
twobitshifter 4y ago
He said they're priced out. This means interested but without the wealth to outspend foreigners.
- mavelikara 4y ago
  I was asking about the rich people in his county, who don't currently live in the mountain town.
  - fatbird 4y ago
    In Canada, the vast majority of rich foreigners buying property are American. Chinese investors, the favourite villain of the "rich foreigners" class, make up only about 4% of foreign real estate investment.
    - bamboozled 4y ago
      It would be funny though, if you were trying to say that Chinese foreign ownership isn't a problem in places in the world, because I mean, it's absolutely smashed Sydney's housing prices. Not saying there's anything "wrong" with any ethnic group, but there are sources of money in this world and some are particularly more present than others. I don't know why but I'd say Chinese foreign ownership is much lower in the USA than in Australia, parts of Asia. Either way, I'd say 4% is still a pretty large part of American real estate ?
      - fatbird 4y ago
        Yeah, I wasn't fully clear. I'm talking about Canada, where Chinese investment is only 4%, contrary to perception that "Chinese money" is the source of our troubles. 4% is still a significant impact, but it's pretty much pure racism that singles out the Chinese as the primary driver.
        seanmcdirmid 4y ago
        Aren't Chinese investments relatively restricted to Vancouver and Toronto areas? If that 4% is focused, it could have huge impact in those areas.

asdff 4y ago

How do you know they are foreign? Either way, if you live in say some little ski town, you are going to have people both foreign and domestic who want a ski lodge. That's just the order of things. As long as you throw your hands in the air and say "they are buying up our limited housing stock, lets do anything but make more housing stock" then people will continue to be priced out by those who can afford to compete on the finite amount of housing on offer. If you keep allowing for building and taxing to pay for infrastructure, however, growth will continue at a more sustainable rate until demand is eventually satiated and builders have less work, and there won't just be infinite demand either. There are limiting factors here too: maybe the ski resort has a finite number of lift tickets being sold per day, or maybe the local airport only sees so many flights per day.