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> Rebuilding trillions LoC that are deployed on literally every computer architecture, dozens of toolchains and OS's is a high impact and high risk problem with

> Rebuilding trillions LoC that are deployed on literally every computer architecture, dozens of toolchains and OS's is a high impact and high risk problem with arguable benefits. Although it is technically possible, I don't think it is a process which "just happens" but it is a process which probably take years to be implemented on each and every platform. It was mentioned already that Linux distributions are doing exactly this. On every major compiler update. > So, I don't think it's a "C++ mentality" but its rather a difficult problem to solve. Sure it's not trivial to set up. But it's possible and done so for a long time already. Sure, things could be made simpler. For example by using some stable intermediate representation that gets compiled on the target to the appropriate machine code. Oh, wait, all big platforms starting with mainframes do exactly this already… (Mainframes, the JVM, .NET, Android, Apple stuff, etc.) > > Also C++ could easily introduced the "editions" concept form Rust. This would give you all form both worlds. > We'll see in about 20 years time if "editions" will solve this problem and if Rust becomes as widespread as C++ is. LoC deployed in Rust is currently a statistical error in comparison to C++. FWIW C++ also had similar proposal and it didn't went through AFAIK. That's not an argument against the "editions" idea. Actually what you've said doesn't even go into the proposal.

menaerus 4y ago
> It was mentioned already that Linux distributions are doing exactly this. On every major compiler update. I guess you're aware not everything runs on Linux neither are all Linux deployments vanilla Linux deployments. At this point I think you're just intentionally ignorant or completely unaware of the world outside your bubble environment. > For example by using some stable intermediate representation that gets compiled on the target to the appropriate machine code. Oh, wait, all big platforms starting with mainframes do exactly this already… (Mainframes, the JVM, .NET, Android, Apple stuff, etc.) Eh? > That's not an argument against the "editions" idea. Actually what you've said doesn't even go into the proposal. It is an argument because suggesting to "easily introduce" the idea from another immature language which (1) is not proven and (2) which will take long long time before it does is wishful thinking, if not nonsense and far from reality. Rust "editions" do not solve the problem because, well, to begin with Rust doesn't have the problem of the same scale that C++ does. We'll see what C++ will do in this regard but I wouldn't hold my breath. Disadvantages of breaking the ABI frequently currently outweigh the advantages and my opinion is that it will stay the same way for unforeseeable time.
- steveklabnik 4y ago
  Just as a tiny FYI, Rust's editions were proposed for C++ in 2019: https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2019/p1881r0.html https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2019/p18... The outcome: https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/631#issuecomment-585231742 https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/631#issuecomment-...
  - menaerus 4y ago
    Thanks for sharing the links but that's what I already said above in the comment. > FWIW C++ also had similar proposal and it didn't went through AFAIK.
    - steveklabnik 4y ago
      Ah I missed that! Well now you have the link showing you’re right :)

menaerus 4y ago

> It was mentioned already that Linux distributions are doing exactly this. On every major compiler update. I guess you're aware not everything runs on Linux neither are all Linux deployments vanilla Linux deployments. At this point I think you're just intentionally ignorant or completely unaware of the world outside your bubble environment. > For example by using some stable intermediate representation that gets compiled on the target to the appropriate machine code. Oh, wait, all big platforms starting with mainframes do exactly this already… (Mainframes, the JVM, .NET, Android, Apple stuff, etc.) Eh? > That's not an argument against the "editions" idea. Actually what you've said doesn't even go into the proposal. It is an argument because suggesting to "easily introduce" the idea from another immature language which (1) is not proven and (2) which will take long long time before it does is wishful thinking, if not nonsense and far from reality. Rust "editions" do not solve the problem because, well, to begin with Rust doesn't have the problem of the same scale that C++ does. We'll see what C++ will do in this regard but I wouldn't hold my breath. Disadvantages of breaking the ABI frequently currently outweigh the advantages and my opinion is that it will stay the same way for unforeseeable time.

steveklabnik 4y ago
Just as a tiny FYI, Rust's editions were proposed for C++ in 2019: https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2019/p1881r0.html https://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2019/p18... The outcome: https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/631#issuecomment-585231742 https://github.com/cplusplus/papers/issues/631#issuecomment-...
- menaerus 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing the links but that's what I already said above in the comment. > FWIW C++ also had similar proposal and it didn't went through AFAIK.
  - steveklabnik 4y ago
    Ah I missed that! Well now you have the link showing you’re right :)