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What's remarkable is how good machine translation (DeepL, Google Translate) has become at handling idiomatic expressions in recent years. Still not perfect, of
by akolbe 4y ago
What's remarkable is how good machine translation (DeepL, Google Translate) has become at handling idiomatic expressions in recent years. Still not perfect, of course (there's still the odd clanger), but anyone trying to do the same task today would fare considerably better.
- gherkinnn 4y agoI disagree. I can't speak for Deepl, but Google remains terrible at idioms. Give the phrase "There's mud all over the shop." a try.
- Aardwolf 4y agoWhat if you actually want to literally translate "There's mud all over the shop"?
- gherkinnn 4y agoAnd this is where I found translation services to fall apart. I worry a lot of language getting will be lost in an effort to reduce it to something a machine can handle.
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- denton-scratch 4y agoI think in that context, it's already literal. "All over the shop" as an idiom means disorganized, chaotic. I don't use it to mean "all over the place" in the sense of something pervading some location.
- Tade0 4y agoGoogle search can't seem to find this phrase. What does it mean?
- nojs 4y ago“All over the shop” means “everywhere”, maybe that’s what they mean?
- loudgas 4y ago“all over the shop” is another way of saying “all over the place” in the UK Sources: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/all%20over%20the%20shop https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/all%20over%20the%... https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/all+over+the+shop https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/all+over+the+shop
- googlryas 4y agoIs that your own idiom? Literally never heard it before and I collect idioms.
- pbhjpbhj 4y ago>Give the phrase "There's mud all over the shop." a try. // In which dialect of English is that an idiomatic expression? Never heard it before (en-gb native). What's the interpreted meaning??
- wheybags 4y agoMakes sense to me, I'm Irish
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- AntoniusBlock 4y ago`all over the shop' meaning all over the place, not literally all over a shop/store which is what Google Translate and DeepL translate it as. It's British and Irish.
- kwhitefoot 4y ago".. all over the shop" is a perfectly ordinary British Isles idiom. Perhaps more widespread than that.
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoYes, "all over the shop" is an adverbial expression meaning someone/something was haphazard, lacking in control, or behaving unusually. "Messi [a footballer] was all over the shop" might be said if he was regularly out of position in match, or performed uncharacteristically unskillfully. The verb is implied here. If you say "mud was all over the shop" then the only interpretation I know is that a literal shop has mud over [the inside of] it. That's not idiomatic; it's just plain language. It could work if you were talking about mud doing something unexpected; maybe a misbehaving oil well. What's your interpretation of the full expression "there's mud all over the shop"?
- kwhitefoot 4y ago> What's your interpretation of the full expression "there's mud all over the shop"? Unless the conversation already included references to a building where one buys things it would just mean "there's mud all over the place".
- akolbe 4y agoDeepL gives you the following for "There's mud all over the shop": "Der ganze Laden ist voller Schlamm." (German) But if you place the cursor on "Laden" ("shop") it'll offer you alternatives including "Ort" ("place", i.e.: "There is mud all over the place"). The problem here is that what's meant depends on context: if you are a shopkeeper speaking after a downpour, your entire shop might indeed be full of mud your customers have dragged in. (Moreover, "der ganze Laden" can be used in German in much the same way as "all over the shop" in English, i.e. referring to any sort of building or establishment.) More to the point perhaps, here is the output DeepL produces for the Portuguese phrases quoted in the table of "Phrase examples": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_She_Is_Spoke#Phrase_examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_She_Is_Spoke#Phrase... 1. "Walls have ears. Alternatives: The walls have ears. Walls do have ears." (1:0 for DeepL.) 2. "He rides pussycats. Alternatives: Walk with pussycats. Come on, pussycat. He's got pussy." (1:1. BIG FAIL.) 3. "Is the road safe? Alternatives: How safe is the road? Is the road safe ? Is the road safe for you? (2:1 for DeepL.) 4. "He can ride a horse. Alternatives: He knows how to ride a horse. You can ride a horse. You know how to ride a horse. (3:1 for DeepL. Note that the Portuguese can indeed mean either "you" or "he".) 5. "He who remains silent consents. Alternatives: He who is silent is consenting. He who is silent is consented. Those who keep silent consent." (4:1 for DeepL.) 6. "What does he do? Alternatives: What is he doing? What's he doing? What does it do?" (5:1 for DeepL.) 7. "I feel like vomiting." Alternatives: I feel like throwing up. I feel like puking." (6:1 for DeepL.) 8. "This lake looks pretty fishy to me. Let's go fishing for fun." (Not brilliant. 6:2.) 9. "The servant ploughed the royal ground." (Acceptable. "Earth", "land", "soil" etc. offered as alternatives when you click on "ground". 7:2.) 10. "I know what I should do or what is incumbent upon me." (Acceptable. Offers "what is my responsibility" when you click on "incumbent". 8:2 for DeepL.) 11. "I earned more than thirty thousand réis. Alternatives: I earned over thirty thousand réis. I won more than thirty thousand réis. I won over thirty thousand réis." (Perfect. 9:2 for DeepL.) 12. "Did you understand or did you understand what I said? Alternatives: Did you understand what I said? Did you understand me? (Perfect. 10:2 for DeepL. Note that the repeition is there in the Portuguese: it ask the same thing twice, in two past tense forms that aren't distinguished in English (formal/informal forms).) 13. "He's a good sport, as far as I can see. Look how I've tamed him." (I don't think the translation in Wikipedia is all that brilliant. "From what I see, he kicks"?? Alternatives offered by DeepL when clicking on "good sport" include: "He's got balls from what I can see. Look how I've tamed him." Inconclusive. Let's call it 10.5 : 2.5.) So, not perfect, but a lot less funny than "English as She Is Spoke".
- frozenlettuce 4y agoanother good test is "Steve Jobs was fired from Apple"
- akolbe 4y agoFWIW, DeepL gets that one consistently right: Steve Jobs fue despedido de Apple. O Steve Jobs foi despedido da Apple. Steve Jobs a été renvoyé d'Apple. Steve Jobs wurde von Apple gefeuert. Steve Jobs werd ontslagen bij Apple. Google Translate too (very similar results).
- carlosjobim 4y agoHow can you disagree if you then instantly disqualify your own opinion? DeepL is on a whole other level than Google, they aren't even comparable in quality. Try yourself if you are curious.
- astrange 4y agoThe test sentence I usually use is “Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.” Google EN->JP doesn’t get it right, and also oddly translates the two sentences into different politeness levels.
- moloch-hai 4y ago"Don't stick a bee in the mud."
- ragazzina 4y ago"I went inside the place/bar, and there was mud all over the shop" gets translated correctly by DeepL. With restaurant/home/office/stables, it fails.