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I don't know why it is so pervasive, but programmers think they are inherently good at UX/UI for some reason. And they are very possessive about it. I was until

I don't know why it is so pervasive, but programmers think they are inherently good at UX/UI for some reason. And they are very possessive about it. I was until I married a designer, and they actually went to school to study visual composition, balance, color language, etc. I'm fond of saying UIs designed by engineers look exactly like UIs designed by engineers. I'm not saying that all designers are always better than all programmers, but when you've studied visual composition, it shows. I mean just look at the scorching replies you are getting. You definitely offended some people who fall into this "I know better than any stoopid artist" category.

wtallis 4y ago
It sounds like you think the job of a UI designer it to make UIs look pretty. That's exactly the misconception that people are railing against, because it leads to disasters like Windows Vista, 8, and 11. The job of a UI designer is to make the UI usable. Looking pretty in screenshots must always be a lower priority than being functional and accessible.
- FatActor 4y ago
  You are exactly confusing UX and UI. Usability--what you are describing--is the UX or user experience, buttons colors composition affordance is the UI, connecting the buttons to the REST endpoints is frontend, servicing the REST endpoints is backend, making sure the backend is running and so is the gateway is devops. At least that's what it has been for 20+ years.
  - wtallis 4y ago
    > You are exactly confusing UX and UI. > Usability--what you are describing--is the UX or user experience, buttons colors composition affordance is the UI, Considering these to be separate disciplines is just more of the same madness. They're inextricable. > At least that's what it has been for 20+ years. I think it's more that over the past 15-20 years there's been a growing trend of people forgetting that "look and feel" doesn't just mean "look".
    - vor_ 4y ago
      > Considering these to be separate disciplines is just more of the same madness. They're inextricable. But the terms have different meanings.
      - wtallis 4y ago
        They have different nuance, at the very least. But claiming that UI design has nothing to do with usability is absurd.
    - FatActor 4y ago
      > Considering these to be separate disciplines is just more of the same madness. They're inextricable. Not if you've actually done both. ;-) Here's an example: UX would be: on beginning a customer purchase, do we use a funnel pattern (isolating the purchase experience from the layout template), or is there backout that allows the user back to the store instead of back through the path. UI would be: how do we design the checkout template, what colors and fonts from the corporate palette do we use where Totally unrelated. Make sense?
      - wtallis 4y ago
        No, it doesn't make any sense. You cannot decide whether a small piece of what you call "UI" is good without considering its place within the larger context that you call "UX". A dialog box that is very pretty, fits well with the overall aesthetics of the application and the platform/OS, and properly does what it says it does—would still be an example of bad UI if it's one of those dialog boxes that shouldn't exist in the first place and is a product of the developers/designers fundamentally misunderstanding the workflow or goals of their users. This distinction you're trying to make is really not productive. Its too vague and subjective about where to draw the line, and I'm pretty sure most people who are adamant that a line must be drawn are people who will subsequently neglect things on one side of the line as "somebody else's problem".
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - madebyporter 4y ago
    You're correct. For example, if you're in someone else kitchen, trying to eat a meal and you didn't ask the house owner where the forks at so you go searching by yourself: UX would be "what drawer will the utensils be within the kitchen? Usually close to the microwave/stove/fridge." UI would be "Does this drawer need handles or can you open it from the bottom?"
    - wtallis 4y ago
      It sounds like you're describing more of a macro vs micro distinction, rather than a functional vs aesthetic/visual distinction. But either way, you can't cleanly separate the two responsibilities.

wtallis 4y ago

It sounds like you think the job of a UI designer it to make UIs look pretty. That's exactly the misconception that people are railing against, because it leads to disasters like Windows Vista, 8, and 11. The job of a UI designer is to make the UI usable. Looking pretty in screenshots must always be a lower priority than being functional and accessible.

FatActor 4y ago
You are exactly confusing UX and UI. Usability--what you are describing--is the UX or user experience, buttons colors composition affordance is the UI, connecting the buttons to the REST endpoints is frontend, servicing the REST endpoints is backend, making sure the backend is running and so is the gateway is devops. At least that's what it has been for 20+ years.
- wtallis 4y ago
  > You are exactly confusing UX and UI. > Usability--what you are describing--is the UX or user experience, buttons colors composition affordance is the UI, Considering these to be separate disciplines is just more of the same madness. They're inextricable. > At least that's what it has been for 20+ years. I think it's more that over the past 15-20 years there's been a growing trend of people forgetting that "look and feel" doesn't just mean "look".
  - vor_ 4y ago
    > Considering these to be separate disciplines is just more of the same madness. They're inextricable. But the terms have different meanings.
    - wtallis 4y ago
      They have different nuance, at the very least. But claiming that UI design has nothing to do with usability is absurd.
  - FatActor 4y ago
    > Considering these to be separate disciplines is just more of the same madness. They're inextricable. Not if you've actually done both. ;-) Here's an example: UX would be: on beginning a customer purchase, do we use a funnel pattern (isolating the purchase experience from the layout template), or is there backout that allows the user back to the store instead of back through the path. UI would be: how do we design the checkout template, what colors and fonts from the corporate palette do we use where Totally unrelated. Make sense?
    - wtallis 4y ago
      No, it doesn't make any sense. You cannot decide whether a small piece of what you call "UI" is good without considering its place within the larger context that you call "UX". A dialog box that is very pretty, fits well with the overall aesthetics of the application and the platform/OS, and properly does what it says it does—would still be an example of bad UI if it's one of those dialog boxes that shouldn't exist in the first place and is a product of the developers/designers fundamentally misunderstanding the workflow or goals of their users. This distinction you're trying to make is really not productive. Its too vague and subjective about where to draw the line, and I'm pretty sure most people who are adamant that a line must be drawn are people who will subsequently neglect things on one side of the line as "somebody else's problem".
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- madebyporter 4y ago
  You're correct. For example, if you're in someone else kitchen, trying to eat a meal and you didn't ask the house owner where the forks at so you go searching by yourself: UX would be "what drawer will the utensils be within the kitchen? Usually close to the microwave/stove/fridge." UI would be "Does this drawer need handles or can you open it from the bottom?"
  - wtallis 4y ago
    It sounds like you're describing more of a macro vs micro distinction, rather than a functional vs aesthetic/visual distinction. But either way, you can't cleanly separate the two responsibilities.