4 ms·

> The incident has also caught the attention of Binance CEO Changpeng “CZ” Zhao, who offered condolences and support in a Jan. 1 post. > > “Sorry to see you lo

> The incident has also caught the attention of Binance CEO Changpeng “CZ” Zhao, who offered condolences and support in a Jan. 1 post. > > “Sorry to see you lose so much. Informed our security team to monitor. If it comes our way, we will freeze it. If there is anything else we can help with, please let us know. We deal with these often, and have Law Enforcement (LE) relationships worldwide," he wrote. The difference between Bitcoin and TradFi shrinks every day.

hartator 4y ago
> If it comes our way, we will freeze it. So much for “Code is law”.
- nubb 4y ago
  everyone is watching the avi case now to see whether a court will rule code is law. going to be super interesting to watch play out.
- arez 4y ago
  yes, but that obviously doesn't apply anymore when you add it to an exchange, which seems fair tbh. I'm not a blockchain shill by any means
- pjkundert 4y ago
  I assume you must understand how Bitcoin works, so… Moving cryptocurrencies around barriers such as custodial exchanges freezing/losing/stealing it is one of the “superpowers” that makes real Crypto valuable. Any thief dumb enough to deposit their stolen goods onto someone’s exchange deserves to have it frozen — heck, if they deposited it into my wallet, that’s what I wound do! Explain again how this defeats “code is law”?
  - eternalban 4y ago
    It doesn't defeat it, it merely underlines that bitcoin platitudes evaporate in the light of practical use of "crypto". Related sayings: "Feet of clay", "Emperor has no clothes". etc.
- birracerveza 4y ago
  Damn, it's almost like centralized exchanges are the exact antithesis of everything cryptocurrencies stands for. I wonder if that's why everyone warns against using them?
  - cma 4y ago
    Storing it yourself is similar risk to keeping lots of cash in your house.
    - birracerveza 4y ago
      "Storing cash in my house is unsafe. I'll just store it in someone else's house!"
      - tobltobs 4y ago
        If the other house has better protection against thief's and you trust the owner and inhabitants then, yes, maybe that makes sense.
      - roflyear 4y ago
        ..... Yeah.... That makes sense to me?
      - nextaccountic 4y ago
        Storing cash in my house is unsafe. I'll just outsource this to people with expertise in storing cash
- traveler01 4y ago
  Most likely the hacker will use a DEX to convert his funds. But yeah there's no much difference between Exchanges and banks, they work basically the same way.
- gruez 4y ago
  1. Is Changpeng “CZ” Zhao known to be someone who believes in "Code is law"? I know that some in the crypto community (specifically ethereum/difi) believes this, but this isn't as much of a gotcha you think it is because crypto isn't a monolith, and therefore there can be apparent contradictions from people within the crypto community. 2. On a more fundamental level, I don't see how this is inconsistent with "code is law". After all, if the attacker willingly transferred his stolen funds to a third party, then in the eyes of the network he legitimately gave up control of it[1], just like luke legitimately gave up control of his coins when his wallet was hacked. Live by the sword, die by the sword. [1] if you want to make it kosher in the eyes of the law, you could even sneak a clause in the ToS that says you have the right to freeze whatever funds you want.
rco8786 4y ago
> The difference between Bitcoin and TradFi shrinks every day. It has been fascinating to watch society rethink/rebuild financial regulations from first principles and largely end up with the same conclusions. If anything, hopefully getting people to realize that all the rules tradfi institutions follow aren’t just made up for no reason.
- pjkundert 4y ago
  You mean the rules that got our bank accounts frozen for giving 50 bucks to our trucker buddies to help them protest for the freedoms we thought we had? Those “regulations“? This incident alone has forged grim resolve in many people, including myself, to produce systems to grind TradFi to dust.
  - api 4y ago
    What evidence do we have that this kind of abuse of power would be impossible in crypto world? It would only be possible if everyone used anonymous coins like Zcash and Monero from their own wallets. Any use of exchanges or secondary networks like lightning provides levers to turn people off. Any corporation can be subjected to pressure by not just governments but large groups of people. I don’t see people like the trucker protestors using cryptographic hardware wallets and waiting minutes for transactions to clear on a block chain. BTW the trucker thing was a line for many people including myself, and I wasn’t anti-vax and did not vote for Trump. Freezing the assets of people for participating in a protest is not okay. The content of the protest is irrelevant.
    - rco8786 4y ago
      Good thread about this: https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083 https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083
    - plsbenice34 4y ago
      We can use Monero with our own wallets right now and will continue to do so, nobody can stop that. How is that not evidence? Transactions are occurring right now. It doesnt have to be "everyone" doing it
nubb 4y ago
the funny bits here are if the stolen funds are sent to binance.com (not binance.us) cz/binance will claim they don’t have jurisdiction. it’s apparently illegal for cz to help americans via binance.com.
mensetmanusman 4y ago
Even if it ends up the same, it will differ from the ethical framework of NYC cosmopolitans. Having more diversity of thought would be a good outcome.
gitfan86 4y ago
I have been saying this since 2010. BTC is typical libertarian overreaction to government incompetence/corruption. The bailouts and lack of consequences for the financial sector in 2008 are infuriating, but getting rid of the government involvement in the financial sector isn't a realistic solution. It would be like finding out that the fire chief in your town was filling up his car with gas that was supposed to only be for the fire trucks, and then deciding to totally get rid of the fire department. Yes, you end the corruption, but the next time there is a fire a whole block of homes burns down. A decentralized trustless currency or store of value means that a minor typo OR a hack could cost you everything. And adding layers of protection on top of that makes the underlying layer completely pointless. If every exchange is going to stop any transactions involving my wallets the minute they decide I'm "suspicious" why not just leave my money in cash or gold or in a bank account?
- panarky 4y ago
  It's not about eliminating government, it's about building an alternative that some people can use voluntarily if they wish, while others who want to keep the government system are free to do that at the same time. It would be like a town where the government fire department was corrupt and stealing from the town's treasury, so some people move outside the city limits and set up their own volunteer fire department. Maybe it doesn't work as well. Maybe there are fires the volunteers aren't prepared for. Maybe some government firefighters start fires in the unincorporated area to make townsfolk afraid to leave and join the rebel group. But at least the volunteers aren't stealing from the treasury any more.
repomies69 4y ago
> The difference between Bitcoin and TradFi shrinks every day. Bitcoin is a protocol, I assume TradFi means traditional finance companies. The companies that deal with Bitcoin shouldn't be different from TradFi to begin with (and that's a good thing). They are typically holding and handling assets (Bitcoin) on behalf of others and philosopically I see only little difference whether you are doing that with Bitcoin, with physical assets like gold, or digital database rows like equities or bonds. Using Bitcoin in a self-custodial manner is something else altogether.
BenoitP 4y ago
True, but except for the inflation/coinbase-size/2008-style-bailouts part.

hartator 4y ago

> If it comes our way, we will freeze it. So much for “Code is law”.

nubb 4y ago
everyone is watching the avi case now to see whether a court will rule code is law. going to be super interesting to watch play out.
arez 4y ago
yes, but that obviously doesn't apply anymore when you add it to an exchange, which seems fair tbh. I'm not a blockchain shill by any means
pjkundert 4y ago
I assume you must understand how Bitcoin works, so… Moving cryptocurrencies around barriers such as custodial exchanges freezing/losing/stealing it is one of the “superpowers” that makes real Crypto valuable. Any thief dumb enough to deposit their stolen goods onto someone’s exchange deserves to have it frozen — heck, if they deposited it into my wallet, that’s what I wound do! Explain again how this defeats “code is law”?
- eternalban 4y ago
  It doesn't defeat it, it merely underlines that bitcoin platitudes evaporate in the light of practical use of "crypto". Related sayings: "Feet of clay", "Emperor has no clothes". etc.
birracerveza 4y ago
Damn, it's almost like centralized exchanges are the exact antithesis of everything cryptocurrencies stands for. I wonder if that's why everyone warns against using them?
- cma 4y ago
  Storing it yourself is similar risk to keeping lots of cash in your house.
  - birracerveza 4y ago
    "Storing cash in my house is unsafe. I'll just store it in someone else's house!"
    - tobltobs 4y ago
      If the other house has better protection against thief's and you trust the owner and inhabitants then, yes, maybe that makes sense.
    - roflyear 4y ago
      ..... Yeah.... That makes sense to me?
    - nextaccountic 4y ago
      Storing cash in my house is unsafe. I'll just outsource this to people with expertise in storing cash
traveler01 4y ago
Most likely the hacker will use a DEX to convert his funds. But yeah there's no much difference between Exchanges and banks, they work basically the same way.
gruez 4y ago
1. Is Changpeng “CZ” Zhao known to be someone who believes in "Code is law"? I know that some in the crypto community (specifically ethereum/difi) believes this, but this isn't as much of a gotcha you think it is because crypto isn't a monolith, and therefore there can be apparent contradictions from people within the crypto community. 2. On a more fundamental level, I don't see how this is inconsistent with "code is law". After all, if the attacker willingly transferred his stolen funds to a third party, then in the eyes of the network he legitimately gave up control of it[1], just like luke legitimately gave up control of his coins when his wallet was hacked. Live by the sword, die by the sword. [1] if you want to make it kosher in the eyes of the law, you could even sneak a clause in the ToS that says you have the right to freeze whatever funds you want.

rco8786 4y ago

> The difference between Bitcoin and TradFi shrinks every day. It has been fascinating to watch society rethink/rebuild financial regulations from first principles and largely end up with the same conclusions. If anything, hopefully getting people to realize that all the rules tradfi institutions follow aren’t just made up for no reason.

pjkundert 4y ago
You mean the rules that got our bank accounts frozen for giving 50 bucks to our trucker buddies to help them protest for the freedoms we thought we had? Those “regulations“? This incident alone has forged grim resolve in many people, including myself, to produce systems to grind TradFi to dust.
- api 4y ago
  What evidence do we have that this kind of abuse of power would be impossible in crypto world? It would only be possible if everyone used anonymous coins like Zcash and Monero from their own wallets. Any use of exchanges or secondary networks like lightning provides levers to turn people off. Any corporation can be subjected to pressure by not just governments but large groups of people. I don’t see people like the trucker protestors using cryptographic hardware wallets and waiting minutes for transactions to clear on a block chain. BTW the trucker thing was a line for many people including myself, and I wasn’t anti-vax and did not vote for Trump. Freezing the assets of people for participating in a protest is not okay. The content of the protest is irrelevant.
  - rco8786 4y ago
    Good thread about this: https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083 https://twitter.com/punk6529/status/1494444624630403083
  - plsbenice34 4y ago
    We can use Monero with our own wallets right now and will continue to do so, nobody can stop that. How is that not evidence? Transactions are occurring right now. It doesnt have to be "everyone" doing it

nubb 4y ago

the funny bits here are if the stolen funds are sent to binance.com (not binance.us) cz/binance will claim they don’t have jurisdiction. it’s apparently illegal for cz to help americans via binance.com.

mensetmanusman 4y ago

Even if it ends up the same, it will differ from the ethical framework of NYC cosmopolitans. Having more diversity of thought would be a good outcome.

gitfan86 4y ago

I have been saying this since 2010. BTC is typical libertarian overreaction to government incompetence/corruption. The bailouts and lack of consequences for the financial sector in 2008 are infuriating, but getting rid of the government involvement in the financial sector isn't a realistic solution. It would be like finding out that the fire chief in your town was filling up his car with gas that was supposed to only be for the fire trucks, and then deciding to totally get rid of the fire department. Yes, you end the corruption, but the next time there is a fire a whole block of homes burns down. A decentralized trustless currency or store of value means that a minor typo OR a hack could cost you everything. And adding layers of protection on top of that makes the underlying layer completely pointless. If every exchange is going to stop any transactions involving my wallets the minute they decide I'm "suspicious" why not just leave my money in cash or gold or in a bank account?

panarky 4y ago
It's not about eliminating government, it's about building an alternative that some people can use voluntarily if they wish, while others who want to keep the government system are free to do that at the same time. It would be like a town where the government fire department was corrupt and stealing from the town's treasury, so some people move outside the city limits and set up their own volunteer fire department. Maybe it doesn't work as well. Maybe there are fires the volunteers aren't prepared for. Maybe some government firefighters start fires in the unincorporated area to make townsfolk afraid to leave and join the rebel group. But at least the volunteers aren't stealing from the treasury any more.

repomies69 4y ago

> The difference between Bitcoin and TradFi shrinks every day. Bitcoin is a protocol, I assume TradFi means traditional finance companies. The companies that deal with Bitcoin shouldn't be different from TradFi to begin with (and that's a good thing). They are typically holding and handling assets (Bitcoin) on behalf of others and philosopically I see only little difference whether you are doing that with Bitcoin, with physical assets like gold, or digital database rows like equities or bonds. Using Bitcoin in a self-custodial manner is something else altogether.

BenoitP 4y ago

True, but except for the inflation/coinbase-size/2008-style-bailouts part.