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Elon Musk’s private jet emitted 1,895 tons of CO2 in 2022 – ElonJet Wrapped 2022

35 points by pgaspar 4y ago

TooSmugToFail 4y ago
The security issue was a straw-man argument the whole time. The data was public anyway. This was the key aspect: analysis of the open data, and the potential negative implications.
- ss108 4y ago
  I don't think Elon or his would-be acolytes care about the environment anyways though.
- AnEro 4y ago
  It was very clear from the start, especially seeing his past with how aggressively he litigated even minor criticisms of the tesla as if it was slander. * edit: I forget down voting is a thing. Why I thought i was clear from the start: If someone actually cared about their private jet privacy they would be renting jets... Cause its common knowledge that one can be tracked publicly with ownership information. Or he could push for a change in gov policies, he certainly doesn't mind sharing his political opinion now.
pifm_guy 4y ago
And how does that compare to the fleet of electric cars his companies make to replace gas cars? Is he net negative?
- feet 4y ago
  I don't think that would make a difference considering those cars replace the transportation of others
  - pgaspar 4y ago
    And Tesla also sells carbon offsets to other companies.
    - simondotau 4y ago
      To be precise they don't sell carbon offsets, they sell regulatory credits. These schemes force the sum of all cars sold to be lower in emissions than in previous years; the ability to trade credits provides extra incentive to companies which are making an out-sized contribution to the overall efficiency. The problem isn't that Tesla is selling. The problem is that others are buying. At the end of the day it's not Tesla's fault if these government schemes aren't resulting in ideal overall outcomes.
- VeninVidiaVicii 4y ago
  The electricity has to come from somewhere, and most of the time, that involves fossil fuels anyhow.
  - credit_guy 4y ago
    Yes, but most electricity in the US is produced using natural gas. Natural gas produces much less CO2 emissions than all other fossil fuels. Plus, the efficiency of power plants is double the efficiency of an ICE engine in a car. Switching to an EV easily cuts the emissions by a factor of 2, even when the electricity is produced with fossil fuels.
    - pifm_guy 4y ago
      Even if all electricity comes from the least efficient coal plants, EV's still tend to produce less CO2/mile because EV's are designed to have regen braking, low rolling resistance and low aerodynamic drag.
  - mancerayder 4y ago
    It comes from fossil fuels today, but it can always come from nuclear or renewable sources in the future.
- jerojero 4y ago
  It's actually a lot more difficult to quantify the total emissions of electric car than it might seem at first glance. For one, the electricity might easily be generated through carbon so this doesn't offset emissions as much as direct use of fossil fuels. Not only that, but focusing just on emissions is not comprehensive enough when thinking about the environmental impact of these technologies as a whole. As an example, the extraction of lithium in south america is decimating extremely delicate ecosystems (such as ancient archeon that resides in these extreme environments). So I do wonder if trying to offer an similar but not quite alternative to car transportation is actually doing as much good as we think, it might be better for governments to push for more collective solutions to transportation that will drastically reduce environmental impact as a whole. Not that electric cars are not better than petrol or gasoline cars, but still, I think as a whole the car industry (this includes electric) is probably a net negative to environment and electric cars in particular are prolonging the life of technology that we should be thinking of reducing as much as possible.
  - jycr753 4y ago
    so you are saying, they are selling a lie and it nos worth spending that much money in EV cars?
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      No, they're saying it's complicated. That means that if you try to make it uncomplicated again that you are going to miss crucial information and nuance.
  - mancerayder 4y ago
    >So I do wonder if trying to offer an similar but not quite alternative to car transportation is actually doing as much good as we think, it might be better for governments to push for more collective solutions to transportation that will drastically reduce environmental impact as a whole I like how speculative and yet casually confident we get on here. Cities like NYC and Chicago have respectable public transportation systems. Have we analyzed what cars are used for here? One problem is how do you propose getting people from a dense area to a weekend getaway to the woods, the mountains or a beach? Another problem is, people live in semi rural and suburban areas, too, not everyone lives in an apartment building five minutes from a bus or subway.
- Zigurd 4y ago
  This is a non-sequitur. Apply the same argument to a serial killer who is a trauma surgeon. Just because you have the same units doesn't mean you have an equation.
- cma 4y ago
  Batteries are constrained right now so they could have gone as a better use into plug in hybrids instead. For each full electric car you produce you get 1 full electric and 6 gas cars, or you get 7 plug in hybrids, using the same amount of batteries. The batteries in each Tesla Semi could make multiple shorter range delivery trucks/vans that benefit from stop and go regenerative braking much more.
commitpizza 4y ago
It's easy to be a critic. Elon Musk have done more for the environment than most people ever will. I see no posts for all the other rich people who uses their jets for trips that does nothing to reduce our impact to the climate. It seems quite stupid to me to obsess so much over one persons negative impact and ignoring all the good that has come from the companies he runs.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  The obsession about private flights in general feels like greenwashed hatred/jealousy towards rich people - environment-wise those represent a rounding error of all total emissions.
  - commitpizza 4y ago
    I would understand it if the individual preaches that people shouldn't fly and then do it themselves but in this case there is no reason to hate on him. Of course he is going to fly private, he can easily afford it and would probably be stalked and/or harassed by everyone if he didn't. Most haters would for sure fly private themselves if they could so I think it's jealousy masked as critique.
- 0dayz 4y ago
  It's equally easy to be a blind fan. If you don't see a post about other rich people using jets to travel, you could be the first to be the change you criticize others off not being. What good has he actually done? Tesla was never founded by him, nor has Tesla been the driving force of adaptation of the ev, since the industry has been having its ups and downs for over 100 years. He has hyped up evs for sure, that he deserves all the credit for.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    I never understood this obsession with founding. As anyone in the technology sector knows, brilliant ideas are a dime a dozen. Execution is what matters. So what was the brilliant idea of Tesla, and what was the execution? The three people who "founded" Tesla wanted to make a tiny number of hand built sports cars for wealthy elites, and their outcome was the Roadster, a certifiable lemon. Elon's Tesla wanted to mass-produce electric cars for a mainstream audience, and the company succeeded far beyond the predictions of anyone in the legacy auto sector.
Proven 4y ago
[dead]
jycr753 4y ago
okay, so? could not care less.
yikesonbikes 4y ago
[flagged]
walkhour 4y ago
What about the other thousands of people using private jets? I'm looking forward to seeing their spending in HN promptly for every single one of them.
ThinkBeat 4y ago
A bit off topic but I wish someone would make a similar page about how much fuel the president of the US uses when travelling per year while in office. Let us take a foreign trip to Norway. A friendly allied country with a low threat profile. 4 - 6 weeks prior to travel a team flies in to plan the route, mitigate problems, update schedules and demand accommodations from the host country. Weld your manhole covers shut, empty out floors on some buildings. have all traffic stopped in a radius of X miles, etc etc Same with the hotel, the venue etc etc. The closer we get more aids, vehicles, infrastructure air airlifted in. The flight with POTUS itself, who might or not have fighter jet escort for parts of the trip. and the "Pentagon and military command and control jet accompanies AirForce one. The presidential limousine (The beast) has to gulp gasoline like no other two cars on earth. Perhaps there are other equally armored and fortified limousines around the world, I really dont know Then of course everything in reverse to return home. I bet that in a year, the emission from POTUS traces exceeds that of several countries. Something I often think about when POTUS travels to environmental conferences. The best POTUS could do was to attend remotely (and sign documents digitally? (not sure if that can be done)
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  This is the way it has always been. The same politicians pushing water conservation and other environmental issues are the ones invested in businesses that are the biggest abusers, but then they go put the guilt on the people using a very small fraction and get them to spend more money thinking it is them causing the problem.

35 points by pgaspar 4y ago

The security issue was a straw-man argument the whole time. The data was public anyway. This was the key aspect: analysis of the open data, and the potential negative implications.

ss108 4y ago
I don't think Elon or his would-be acolytes care about the environment anyways though.
AnEro 4y ago
It was very clear from the start, especially seeing his past with how aggressively he litigated even minor criticisms of the tesla as if it was slander. * edit: I forget down voting is a thing. Why I thought i was clear from the start: If someone actually cared about their private jet privacy they would be renting jets... Cause its common knowledge that one can be tracked publicly with ownership information. Or he could push for a change in gov policies, he certainly doesn't mind sharing his political opinion now.

pifm_guy 4y ago

And how does that compare to the fleet of electric cars his companies make to replace gas cars? Is he net negative?

feet 4y ago
I don't think that would make a difference considering those cars replace the transportation of others
- pgaspar 4y ago
  And Tesla also sells carbon offsets to other companies.
  - simondotau 4y ago
    To be precise they don't sell carbon offsets, they sell regulatory credits. These schemes force the sum of all cars sold to be lower in emissions than in previous years; the ability to trade credits provides extra incentive to companies which are making an out-sized contribution to the overall efficiency. The problem isn't that Tesla is selling. The problem is that others are buying. At the end of the day it's not Tesla's fault if these government schemes aren't resulting in ideal overall outcomes.
VeninVidiaVicii 4y ago
The electricity has to come from somewhere, and most of the time, that involves fossil fuels anyhow.
- credit_guy 4y ago
  Yes, but most electricity in the US is produced using natural gas. Natural gas produces much less CO2 emissions than all other fossil fuels. Plus, the efficiency of power plants is double the efficiency of an ICE engine in a car. Switching to an EV easily cuts the emissions by a factor of 2, even when the electricity is produced with fossil fuels.
  - pifm_guy 4y ago
    Even if all electricity comes from the least efficient coal plants, EV's still tend to produce less CO2/mile because EV's are designed to have regen braking, low rolling resistance and low aerodynamic drag.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  It comes from fossil fuels today, but it can always come from nuclear or renewable sources in the future.
jerojero 4y ago
It's actually a lot more difficult to quantify the total emissions of electric car than it might seem at first glance. For one, the electricity might easily be generated through carbon so this doesn't offset emissions as much as direct use of fossil fuels. Not only that, but focusing just on emissions is not comprehensive enough when thinking about the environmental impact of these technologies as a whole. As an example, the extraction of lithium in south america is decimating extremely delicate ecosystems (such as ancient archeon that resides in these extreme environments). So I do wonder if trying to offer an similar but not quite alternative to car transportation is actually doing as much good as we think, it might be better for governments to push for more collective solutions to transportation that will drastically reduce environmental impact as a whole. Not that electric cars are not better than petrol or gasoline cars, but still, I think as a whole the car industry (this includes electric) is probably a net negative to environment and electric cars in particular are prolonging the life of technology that we should be thinking of reducing as much as possible.
- jycr753 4y ago
  so you are saying, they are selling a lie and it nos worth spending that much money in EV cars?
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    No, they're saying it's complicated. That means that if you try to make it uncomplicated again that you are going to miss crucial information and nuance.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  >So I do wonder if trying to offer an similar but not quite alternative to car transportation is actually doing as much good as we think, it might be better for governments to push for more collective solutions to transportation that will drastically reduce environmental impact as a whole I like how speculative and yet casually confident we get on here. Cities like NYC and Chicago have respectable public transportation systems. Have we analyzed what cars are used for here? One problem is how do you propose getting people from a dense area to a weekend getaway to the woods, the mountains or a beach? Another problem is, people live in semi rural and suburban areas, too, not everyone lives in an apartment building five minutes from a bus or subway.
Zigurd 4y ago
This is a non-sequitur. Apply the same argument to a serial killer who is a trauma surgeon. Just because you have the same units doesn't mean you have an equation.
cma 4y ago
Batteries are constrained right now so they could have gone as a better use into plug in hybrids instead. For each full electric car you produce you get 1 full electric and 6 gas cars, or you get 7 plug in hybrids, using the same amount of batteries. The batteries in each Tesla Semi could make multiple shorter range delivery trucks/vans that benefit from stop and go regenerative braking much more.

commitpizza 4y ago

It's easy to be a critic. Elon Musk have done more for the environment than most people ever will. I see no posts for all the other rich people who uses their jets for trips that does nothing to reduce our impact to the climate. It seems quite stupid to me to obsess so much over one persons negative impact and ignoring all the good that has come from the companies he runs.

Nextgrid 4y ago
The obsession about private flights in general feels like greenwashed hatred/jealousy towards rich people - environment-wise those represent a rounding error of all total emissions.
- commitpizza 4y ago
  I would understand it if the individual preaches that people shouldn't fly and then do it themselves but in this case there is no reason to hate on him. Of course he is going to fly private, he can easily afford it and would probably be stalked and/or harassed by everyone if he didn't. Most haters would for sure fly private themselves if they could so I think it's jealousy masked as critique.
0dayz 4y ago
It's equally easy to be a blind fan. If you don't see a post about other rich people using jets to travel, you could be the first to be the change you criticize others off not being. What good has he actually done? Tesla was never founded by him, nor has Tesla been the driving force of adaptation of the ev, since the industry has been having its ups and downs for over 100 years. He has hyped up evs for sure, that he deserves all the credit for.
- simondotau 4y ago
  I never understood this obsession with founding. As anyone in the technology sector knows, brilliant ideas are a dime a dozen. Execution is what matters. So what was the brilliant idea of Tesla, and what was the execution? The three people who "founded" Tesla wanted to make a tiny number of hand built sports cars for wealthy elites, and their outcome was the Roadster, a certifiable lemon. Elon's Tesla wanted to mass-produce electric cars for a mainstream audience, and the company succeeded far beyond the predictions of anyone in the legacy auto sector.

Proven 4y ago

[dead]

jycr753 4y ago

okay, so? could not care less.

yikesonbikes 4y ago

[flagged]

walkhour 4y ago

What about the other thousands of people using private jets? I'm looking forward to seeing their spending in HN promptly for every single one of them.

ThinkBeat 4y ago

A bit off topic but I wish someone would make a similar page about how much fuel the president of the US uses when travelling per year while in office. Let us take a foreign trip to Norway. A friendly allied country with a low threat profile. 4 - 6 weeks prior to travel a team flies in to plan the route, mitigate problems, update schedules and demand accommodations from the host country. Weld your manhole covers shut, empty out floors on some buildings. have all traffic stopped in a radius of X miles, etc etc Same with the hotel, the venue etc etc. The closer we get more aids, vehicles, infrastructure air airlifted in. The flight with POTUS itself, who might or not have fighter jet escort for parts of the trip. and the "Pentagon and military command and control jet accompanies AirForce one. The presidential limousine (The beast) has to gulp gasoline like no other two cars on earth. Perhaps there are other equally armored and fortified limousines around the world, I really dont know Then of course everything in reverse to return home. I bet that in a year, the emission from POTUS traces exceeds that of several countries. Something I often think about when POTUS travels to environmental conferences. The best POTUS could do was to attend remotely (and sign documents digitally? (not sure if that can be done)

encryptluks2 4y ago
This is the way it has always been. The same politicians pushing water conservation and other environmental issues are the ones invested in businesses that are the biggest abusers, but then they go put the guilt on the people using a very small fraction and get them to spend more money thinking it is them causing the problem.