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> no amount of new best practices will save you from old C++ codebases That's true. But at some point maintaining this code will give you your weight in gold

> no amount of new best practices will save you from old C++ codebases That's true. But at some point maintaining this code will give you your weight in gold on a daily basis. Like it's currently for COBOL. No, I'm not looking for such a job. I fear C++ and especially the legacy code. But there will be likely people willing to look after this code. > I can't see new people reaching to learn C++. It will die with its current users. Successful languages don't "die". They fade out. Very, very slowly… I think this process in some way resembles nuclear decay and the concept of half-time. > If all Rust had going for it was Cargo, an improved syntax, and the better docs and compiler messages, it would still win. Well, yes, but the syntax is no real improvement. Rust is as ugly as hell. (Which does not say anything about the actual language as such. Syntax is "just syntax". But Rust has chosen deliberately an ugly syntax to attract C/C++ people, I guess).

zozbot234 4y ago
Ugly? The one thing I've seen complaints about wrt. Rust syntax is the lifetime specifiers, and that's a required part of the language.
- still_grokking 4y ago
  Of course it's ugly. As hell. All the unnecessary syntax noise everywhere. Unnecessary braces, unnecessary semicolons, unnecessary commas, angle brackets, some wild mixture of symbols and words (where clauses in types, WTF…), ill lambda syntax, etc. A modern language shouldn't be designed to be foremost convenient for the machine, but instead convenient for the human in front. Parsing is cheap nowadays. Very cheap. But OK, syntax is much of a personal opinion based thingy. It wouldn't be a show stopper, at least for me, if the actual language has merit.
Thiez 4y ago
Except that COBOL devs are not that paid that well. If they are worth their weight in gold the average COBOL developer must be pretty skinny. By all means specialize in a legacy language if that is what you enjoy, but you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you do it for the money.
- still_grokking 4y ago
  > Except that COBOL devs are not that paid that well. I think there is no other software developer role even remotely paying as well as COBOL in Europe. You get mid level FANG salaries, which are twice or trice what you get for the usual development gig in the EU. EU is banking land. And they locking deliberately for people with COBOL and mainframe skills. > By all means specialize in a legacy language if that is what you enjoy, but you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you do it for the money. I guess this is very true. Even the money looks interesting I would not enjoy such a job, I guess. (It would be fun to find out about the mainframe but that's nothing I would like as a day job. It would be more historic interest. And COBOL, naa, there are more terrible things likely but it's not nice either).

zozbot234 4y ago

Ugly? The one thing I've seen complaints about wrt. Rust syntax is the lifetime specifiers, and that's a required part of the language.

still_grokking 4y ago
Of course it's ugly. As hell. All the unnecessary syntax noise everywhere. Unnecessary braces, unnecessary semicolons, unnecessary commas, angle brackets, some wild mixture of symbols and words (where clauses in types, WTF…), ill lambda syntax, etc. A modern language shouldn't be designed to be foremost convenient for the machine, but instead convenient for the human in front. Parsing is cheap nowadays. Very cheap. But OK, syntax is much of a personal opinion based thingy. It wouldn't be a show stopper, at least for me, if the actual language has merit.

Thiez 4y ago

Except that COBOL devs are not that paid that well. If they are worth their weight in gold the average COBOL developer must be pretty skinny. By all means specialize in a legacy language if that is what you enjoy, but you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you do it for the money.

still_grokking 4y ago
> Except that COBOL devs are not that paid that well. I think there is no other software developer role even remotely paying as well as COBOL in Europe. You get mid level FANG salaries, which are twice or trice what you get for the usual development gig in the EU. EU is banking land. And they locking deliberately for people with COBOL and mainframe skills. > By all means specialize in a legacy language if that is what you enjoy, but you are setting yourself up for disappointment if you do it for the money. I guess this is very true. Even the money looks interesting I would not enjoy such a job, I guess. (It would be fun to find out about the mainframe but that's nothing I would like as a day job. It would be more historic interest. And COBOL, naa, there are more terrible things likely but it's not nice either).