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Tokyo is a cheaper place to live than most people think -- in fact, it is probably cheaper than any major city in California. But most people in California woul

Tokyo is a cheaper place to live than most people think -- in fact, it is probably cheaper than any major city in California. But most people in California would not be willing to sacrifice the standard of living they have, even in apartments. Many studio apartments in America are quite a lot larger and better equipped than a one or two-bedroom apartment in Tokyo.

bmitc 4y ago
How is it cheaper then? I’ve seen those shows and YouTube channels that show to rent basically a closet in Tokyo costs like $15,000 upfront. The monthly rent prices I have seen are insane.
- jrockway 4y ago
  We don't call it "key money" in the US, but you'll be paying something like 10% of your annual rent to a broker in places like NYC. In some markets the landlord pays these fees, but in other markets where demand is high, the tenant gets to pay. Combine this, your first month's rent, and a security deposit, and Tokyo doesn't seem much different than the US.
  - bmitc 4y ago
    Broker’s fees, first and last month’s rent can be common in big cities. It still doesn’t match what I’ve seen in first hand accounts of renting in Tokyo. I can’t remember about how much of the renting fees are refundable or not, where in the U.S., typically only the broker’s fee is non refundable. And I certainly don’t hear anyone saying places with these policies are surprisingly cheap. The person I responded to said that Tokyo is surprisingly cheap if you compare it to California real estate in the major cities (read as LA or San Francisco) and be willing to take major cuts on space and standard of living. That’s sort of a weird argument. Additionally comparing it to NYC doesn’t make it less weird. Of course living in Tokyo is cheap if you throw out standard of living, ignore the initial capital required to rent, and then compare it to some of the other most insane real estate markets.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  Monthly rent goes up from $200 at the low end (10 square meters or so) to $3000 at the high end (120 square meters). You have everything in between. There’s places (especially popular ones) that do key money (up to 3 months, which you don’t get back) and deposits (up to 3 months, which you do), but it’s starting to become less common, and you’ll always be able to find a place that doesn’t. Of course it doesn’t apply at all if you buy a house instead (for roughly the same monthly prices as renting). My main point is that renting in Tokyo is possible regardless of your budget, where in other markets it’s just plain impossible due to the minimum price for even tiny apartments.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jsonne 4y ago
I have never been to Japan but I did a fair bit of international traveling for a couple of years. Going from living in a US style suburban McMansion to small apartments in Italy, Panama, Iceland, etc. was eye opening in such a positive way. US houses have tons of square footage and just so much wasted space. It adds a ton of cleaning and unnecessary maintenance and since large swaths of the US prefer ranch style houses I would rather reduce the footprint for more space for outdoors and a garden. I am genuinely happier in smaller spaces with better utilized space. In my experience you can easily halve the size of most US houses and still be very comfortable with no drop in quality of life. Am I advocating for families of 4+ to live in a 250 sq ft (25 sq meter) apartment like I did in Florence? No, but you also don't need 4000 square feet (400 sq meter) houses either. I can't imagine a scenario even with 3 kids as we're planning on to need more than 1600 sq fetter (150 sq meters) regardless of my personal financial situation and would certainly give up that space for more walkability.
- YorkshireSeason 4y ago
  I went through a similar learning trajectory. I think one has to experience it oneself though, my friends and relatives who never left the suburbs pity me for my restricted living space, and don't believe me when I tell them live is easier with less baggage and it a walkable center of town. I suspect they think I'm rationalising an inability to afford a suburban McMansion.
- rayiner 4y ago
  I thought I never needed anything more than a 1,500 square foot house like my wife’s favorite uncle built with his own hands for his kids. Our house is 3,000 square feet and we just finished 800 square feet for the basement and with three kids it’s just not enough. Heading to my parent’s 5,000 square foot McMansion on the weekends is a real reprive. Yeah it would be easier if we didn’t buy them so much shit. But that’s a deeply ingrained part of American culture. Who has the time to cut their kids off from friends, extended family who buys lots of trinkets for every holiday, etc? Trust me we tried to fight that battle and all we have to show for it is a two inch thick layer of dinosaurs in the living room.
  - 4y ago
eloisant 4y ago
It's not just about sacrificing your standard of living, it's that you won't find a smaller, well organized 2 bedrooms in US. Unless you buy a studio and remodel it yourself (which is quite expensive).

bmitc 4y ago

How is it cheaper then? I’ve seen those shows and YouTube channels that show to rent basically a closet in Tokyo costs like $15,000 upfront. The monthly rent prices I have seen are insane.

jrockway 4y ago
We don't call it "key money" in the US, but you'll be paying something like 10% of your annual rent to a broker in places like NYC. In some markets the landlord pays these fees, but in other markets where demand is high, the tenant gets to pay. Combine this, your first month's rent, and a security deposit, and Tokyo doesn't seem much different than the US.
- bmitc 4y ago
  Broker’s fees, first and last month’s rent can be common in big cities. It still doesn’t match what I’ve seen in first hand accounts of renting in Tokyo. I can’t remember about how much of the renting fees are refundable or not, where in the U.S., typically only the broker’s fee is non refundable. And I certainly don’t hear anyone saying places with these policies are surprisingly cheap. The person I responded to said that Tokyo is surprisingly cheap if you compare it to California real estate in the major cities (read as LA or San Francisco) and be willing to take major cuts on space and standard of living. That’s sort of a weird argument. Additionally comparing it to NYC doesn’t make it less weird. Of course living in Tokyo is cheap if you throw out standard of living, ignore the initial capital required to rent, and then compare it to some of the other most insane real estate markets.
Aeolun 4y ago
Monthly rent goes up from $200 at the low end (10 square meters or so) to $3000 at the high end (120 square meters). You have everything in between. There’s places (especially popular ones) that do key money (up to 3 months, which you don’t get back) and deposits (up to 3 months, which you do), but it’s starting to become less common, and you’ll always be able to find a place that doesn’t. Of course it doesn’t apply at all if you buy a house instead (for roughly the same monthly prices as renting). My main point is that renting in Tokyo is possible regardless of your budget, where in other markets it’s just plain impossible due to the minimum price for even tiny apartments.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jsonne 4y ago

I have never been to Japan but I did a fair bit of international traveling for a couple of years. Going from living in a US style suburban McMansion to small apartments in Italy, Panama, Iceland, etc. was eye opening in such a positive way. US houses have tons of square footage and just so much wasted space. It adds a ton of cleaning and unnecessary maintenance and since large swaths of the US prefer ranch style houses I would rather reduce the footprint for more space for outdoors and a garden. I am genuinely happier in smaller spaces with better utilized space. In my experience you can easily halve the size of most US houses and still be very comfortable with no drop in quality of life. Am I advocating for families of 4+ to live in a 250 sq ft (25 sq meter) apartment like I did in Florence? No, but you also don't need 4000 square feet (400 sq meter) houses either. I can't imagine a scenario even with 3 kids as we're planning on to need more than 1600 sq fetter (150 sq meters) regardless of my personal financial situation and would certainly give up that space for more walkability.

YorkshireSeason 4y ago
I went through a similar learning trajectory. I think one has to experience it oneself though, my friends and relatives who never left the suburbs pity me for my restricted living space, and don't believe me when I tell them live is easier with less baggage and it a walkable center of town. I suspect they think I'm rationalising an inability to afford a suburban McMansion.
rayiner 4y ago
I thought I never needed anything more than a 1,500 square foot house like my wife’s favorite uncle built with his own hands for his kids. Our house is 3,000 square feet and we just finished 800 square feet for the basement and with three kids it’s just not enough. Heading to my parent’s 5,000 square foot McMansion on the weekends is a real reprive. Yeah it would be easier if we didn’t buy them so much shit. But that’s a deeply ingrained part of American culture. Who has the time to cut their kids off from friends, extended family who buys lots of trinkets for every holiday, etc? Trust me we tried to fight that battle and all we have to show for it is a two inch thick layer of dinosaurs in the living room.
- 4y ago

eloisant 4y ago

It's not just about sacrificing your standard of living, it's that you won't find a smaller, well organized 2 bedrooms in US. Unless you buy a studio and remodel it yourself (which is quite expensive).