7 ms·

The case where Mars becomes very interesting is if Earth becomes uninhabitable for some reason, maybe nuclear war or a runaway climate problem or big enough ast

The case where Mars becomes very interesting is if Earth becomes uninhabitable for some reason, maybe nuclear war or a runaway climate problem or big enough asteroid impact. (I'm not pushing any of that alarmism, but on a long term time scale of 10^6 to 10^10 years, almost anything could happen eventually.)

moloch-hai 4y ago
Any of those leaves Earth thousands of times more habitable than Mars. They even leave Antarctica and the sea floor thousands of times more habitable than Mars.
- hparadiz 4y ago
  You can't farm in either of those two places. But on Mars you can farm year round with sunlight.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    What plants would resist the massive amounts of radiation, or perchlorate soil? Note that we don't even know if any plants today would actually be able to fruit in the low gravity environment (nevermind if any animal would be able to successfully procreate).
    - hparadiz 4y ago
      You would generate a magnetic field at the center of the colony to deflect solar energetic particles and galactic cosmic rays. The colony would produce compost with biowaste and use that for soil. There are various ways to remove perchlorates from soil. One avenue of research is to find an optimal mix of martian soil and compost to allow plants to thrive. The points you are making are excellent but I believe solvable. Also we do know if plants can fruit in space. We've already grown tomatoes in space and they are fruits of the tomato plant. And that was zero G.
      - moloch-hai 4y ago
        No one has grown tomatoes in space, as far as I have been able to find. They managed a pepper.
        m4rtink 4y ago
        Its actually ongoing right now on the ISS: https://gpnmag.com/news/nasa-will-grow-tomatoes-in-space-aboard-iss/ https://gpnmag.com/news/nasa-will-grow-tomatoes-in-space-abo...
        moloch-hai 4y ago
        They hope it will work. If not, you won't hear much about it.
        m4rtink 4y ago
        I'm sure there will be relevant scientific papers for this experiment either way.
        moloch-hai 4y ago
        I'm sure there will be no press release if there are no tomatoes.
      - AngryData 4y ago
        You are going to run into energy generations REALLY fast trying to generate such a massive magnetic shield, Not to mention all the other massive energy needs for mining and processing material. Also nobody has yet produced a self-sustained biodome.
  - m4rtink 4y ago
    I'm not really sure farming will work on Mars with sunlight alone given the distance from the Sun. Still, you have gravity and reasonable day length and even some atmospheres, not to mention a lot of mass available - that already makes a lot of things easier.
samus 4y ago
By the time Earth becomes this uninhabitable, we don't have the resources anymore for a Mars shot, much less a full-scale evacuation or, dare I say, colonization. And Earth would have to turn into a Venus-like hellscape to truly become uninhabitable. Even an iceball Earth is ten times as hospitable to life than Mars.
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  The idea is to establish a self-sustaining colony on Mars during a time of prosperity on Earth, not evacuate anyone when things fall apart. The humans already at the colony would continue the existence of our kind.
  - uuvs8 4y ago
    I really wonder why "continued existence of our kind" is a worthwhile life goal. Serious question.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      It has something to do with genetics. Maybe you understand, once you have children?
      - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
        > It has something to do with genetics All living creatures have genes, why humans in particular? Don't dogs and dolphins have offspring? Aren't they intelligent? And why not plants, which are the real reason why Earth life forms can exist on the surface of the planet? But most of all, if you have children, would you really want for them an horrible life on a Mars colony where they would grow up in a labor camp like life and develop such weak bones that they could never live the red planet to visit Earth?
        m4rtink 4y ago
        Well, no one says we won't take other species with us once necessary infrastructure is in place.
gambiting 4y ago
I really don't buy this argument though. It you want a colony that can survive almost any planetary-scale catastrophe, build a colony at the bottom of the ocean. Kilometres of water will shield you from literally any amount of radiation, the surface of the earth could be a scorched wasteland and you'd be fine. And you'd have access to ocean floor resources as well as limitless resources still on the surface, even if you need to use robots to get them. And yes I mean sure - colonizing another planet is the ultimate backup plan. But like this article(and many others) have said, it feels like jumping the shark - we can barely keep people alive for a prelonged period of time on a space station, and we are jumping straight to mars outpost from there? Why not make a self-sufficient base on the moon first, where literally everyone on earth would be able to see it almost with a naked eye and it would inspire countless generations of people to pursue science?
- hparadiz 4y ago
  Maybe I'm wrong but I think it's actually more difficult to keep an airbubble under the ocean from flooding than it is to keep an air bubble around yourself in thin atmosphere.
  - ljf 4y ago
    Under the ocean the bubble is held in place but the water pressure. This is already a solved problem - see diving bell: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_bell#:~:text=A%20diving%20bell%20is%20a,greater%20than%20the%20external%20ambient https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_bell#:~:text=A%20divi... In the atmosphere, how do you meaningfully keep that bubble around you?
- bhaak 4y ago
  > Why not make a self-sufficient base on the moon first, where literally everyone on earth would be able to see it almost with a naked eye and it would inspire countless generations of people to pursue science? Yes. This. I hope that we piggyback on Mars exploration for building infrastructure on the Moon. The Moon is a much better target for a first self sustainable colony and also could become economically interesting. There is nothing on Mars that is economical interesting AFAIK.
uuvs8 4y ago
And why would anybody care? Will you or anybody who will know about you be alive at that point? There are millions if not billions alive today who are suffering from war, famine, dictatorships. And climate change is just making that worse. It would be more reasonable to help those souls instead.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> The case where Mars becomes very interesting is if Earth becomes uninhabitable for some reason Yemen is quite inhospitable, but people still prefer Yemen to living in the Sahara desert or the Antarctica.

moloch-hai 4y ago

Any of those leaves Earth thousands of times more habitable than Mars. They even leave Antarctica and the sea floor thousands of times more habitable than Mars.

hparadiz 4y ago
You can't farm in either of those two places. But on Mars you can farm year round with sunlight.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  What plants would resist the massive amounts of radiation, or perchlorate soil? Note that we don't even know if any plants today would actually be able to fruit in the low gravity environment (nevermind if any animal would be able to successfully procreate).
  - hparadiz 4y ago
    You would generate a magnetic field at the center of the colony to deflect solar energetic particles and galactic cosmic rays. The colony would produce compost with biowaste and use that for soil. There are various ways to remove perchlorates from soil. One avenue of research is to find an optimal mix of martian soil and compost to allow plants to thrive. The points you are making are excellent but I believe solvable. Also we do know if plants can fruit in space. We've already grown tomatoes in space and they are fruits of the tomato plant. And that was zero G.
    - moloch-hai 4y ago
      No one has grown tomatoes in space, as far as I have been able to find. They managed a pepper.
      - m4rtink 4y ago
        Its actually ongoing right now on the ISS: https://gpnmag.com/news/nasa-will-grow-tomatoes-in-space-aboard-iss/ https://gpnmag.com/news/nasa-will-grow-tomatoes-in-space-abo...
        moloch-hai 4y ago
        They hope it will work. If not, you won't hear much about it.
        m4rtink 4y ago
        I'm sure there will be relevant scientific papers for this experiment either way.
        moloch-hai 4y ago
        I'm sure there will be no press release if there are no tomatoes.
    - AngryData 4y ago
      You are going to run into energy generations REALLY fast trying to generate such a massive magnetic shield, Not to mention all the other massive energy needs for mining and processing material. Also nobody has yet produced a self-sustained biodome.
- m4rtink 4y ago
  I'm not really sure farming will work on Mars with sunlight alone given the distance from the Sun. Still, you have gravity and reasonable day length and even some atmospheres, not to mention a lot of mass available - that already makes a lot of things easier.

samus 4y ago

By the time Earth becomes this uninhabitable, we don't have the resources anymore for a Mars shot, much less a full-scale evacuation or, dare I say, colonization. And Earth would have to turn into a Venus-like hellscape to truly become uninhabitable. Even an iceball Earth is ten times as hospitable to life than Mars.

sgtnoodle 4y ago
The idea is to establish a self-sustaining colony on Mars during a time of prosperity on Earth, not evacuate anyone when things fall apart. The humans already at the colony would continue the existence of our kind.
- uuvs8 4y ago
  I really wonder why "continued existence of our kind" is a worthwhile life goal. Serious question.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    It has something to do with genetics. Maybe you understand, once you have children?
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > It has something to do with genetics All living creatures have genes, why humans in particular? Don't dogs and dolphins have offspring? Aren't they intelligent? And why not plants, which are the real reason why Earth life forms can exist on the surface of the planet? But most of all, if you have children, would you really want for them an horrible life on a Mars colony where they would grow up in a labor camp like life and develop such weak bones that they could never live the red planet to visit Earth?
      - m4rtink 4y ago
        Well, no one says we won't take other species with us once necessary infrastructure is in place.

gambiting 4y ago

I really don't buy this argument though. It you want a colony that can survive almost any planetary-scale catastrophe, build a colony at the bottom of the ocean. Kilometres of water will shield you from literally any amount of radiation, the surface of the earth could be a scorched wasteland and you'd be fine. And you'd have access to ocean floor resources as well as limitless resources still on the surface, even if you need to use robots to get them. And yes I mean sure - colonizing another planet is the ultimate backup plan. But like this article(and many others) have said, it feels like jumping the shark - we can barely keep people alive for a prelonged period of time on a space station, and we are jumping straight to mars outpost from there? Why not make a self-sufficient base on the moon first, where literally everyone on earth would be able to see it almost with a naked eye and it would inspire countless generations of people to pursue science?

hparadiz 4y ago
Maybe I'm wrong but I think it's actually more difficult to keep an airbubble under the ocean from flooding than it is to keep an air bubble around yourself in thin atmosphere.
- ljf 4y ago
  Under the ocean the bubble is held in place but the water pressure. This is already a solved problem - see diving bell: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_bell#:~:text=A%20diving%20bell%20is%20a,greater%20than%20the%20external%20ambient https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_bell#:~:text=A%20divi... In the atmosphere, how do you meaningfully keep that bubble around you?
bhaak 4y ago
> Why not make a self-sufficient base on the moon first, where literally everyone on earth would be able to see it almost with a naked eye and it would inspire countless generations of people to pursue science? Yes. This. I hope that we piggyback on Mars exploration for building infrastructure on the Moon. The Moon is a much better target for a first self sustainable colony and also could become economically interesting. There is nothing on Mars that is economical interesting AFAIK.

uuvs8 4y ago

And why would anybody care? Will you or anybody who will know about you be alive at that point? There are millions if not billions alive today who are suffering from war, famine, dictatorships. And climate change is just making that worse. It would be more reasonable to help those souls instead.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

> The case where Mars becomes very interesting is if Earth becomes uninhabitable for some reason Yemen is quite inhospitable, but people still prefer Yemen to living in the Sahara desert or the Antarctica.