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This is such a good point. Whenever I read about a technology that's supposed to make Mars livable, I ask myself "why aren't people doing this already on the Ba

This is such a good point. Whenever I read about a technology that's supposed to make Mars livable, I ask myself "why aren't people doing this already on the Balleny Islands?" (a lovely but remote as hell archipelago off of Antarctica). Usually there's no good answer; something about the exoticism of Mars makes people think problems that are hard on Earth get easier to solve there.

bryanlarsen 4y ago
If we discovered something quite valuable on the Balleny Islands, a viable colony would be established to exploit it very quickly. Hard problems on Earth get solved regularly, but they only get solved when there is sufficient payback to justify the costs of finding those solutions.
- kibwen 4y ago
  If the goal here is to suggest that Mars contains any natural resources of significant economic value, it doesn't.
  - moloch-hai 4y ago
    "Broadcast videos of basketball games there" is the best proposed export I have seen. But the moon is better for that.
- knodi123 4y ago
  What are you going to find on mars to justify a colony? Best answer I've heard is "a portion of the raw materials you'd need to build a colony", which isn't even a circular justification - it's an incomplete circle!. Without the added justification of "because it's another planet, and that's so cool", I don't think a mars colony makes a lick of sense.
  - oceanplexian 4y ago
    Mars has a weaker gravity well, so getting to space is a lot easier than it is from Earth. And while the moon might sound better, unlike the Moon, it has enough gravity where the human body might be able to adapt without crippling bone and muscle loss. This makes Mars pretty ideal as a home base, if you assume that in the future we are planning to mine and process asteroids for rare minerals and metals.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > it has enough gravity where the human body might be able to adapt without crippling bone and muscle loss. I love the "might" qualifier. Let's not forget the heart and circulatory problems too.
    - 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
      why do we even care about all this. establishing a space station on mars to make it easier to travel the rest of the galaxy.. is already circular logic but we're 100s of years away from achieving that now. 20 to get a human there. 30 more to build anything habitable and then we don't even know if its self sustainable but if it is.. 20 or 30 more to build a viable space center anddddd... we haven't actually improved life at all, just explored a sliver more of the galaxy and none of us will even get to witness it .
      - tsimionescu 4y ago
        Don't forget that "self sustainable" would be a pipe dream - there's no conceivable possibility of producing advanced machinery such as electronics on Mars given current or near-future technology. Also, there's a very good chance that this type of exploration of Mars will forever contaminate it preventing us from using Mars to explore the origins of biological life, a much more important and achievable goal than space colonization, and one that doesn't shut out the other one in a farther future.
        verisimi 4y ago
        It's a lovely dream though. Lots of people have grown up with that dream - it's going to be hard to give up. Surely we can spend a few bucks on it to show willing and satisfy the dreamers?
  - m4rtink 4y ago
    Its the gate to the asteroid belt. Also only survivable body with some atmosphere reasonably close to Earth. So as already mentioned, good local base for other activities in much more hostile surroundings.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    Buried ruins of a long gone civilization, maybe? With instructions for their 'gone enabler' engraved in dura-marble? SPACEDRIVE! :-)
esperent 4y ago
> why aren't people doing this already on the Balleny Islands? How would you make these islands habitable, including having a good atmosphere, without affecting the rest of Earth's ecosystem in undesirable ways? That's one major difference. A goal of terraforming mars might actually be easier than terraforming remote islands on earth because: A. It's an isolated system B. We can afford to fail
- 8note 4y ago
  Ship in some dirt, add some mirrors and greenhouses. Build a port, and have people delivery stuff by boat. It's not that hard to do
  - verisimi 4y ago
    Take some of earth's water back... We could stretch out a long hosepipe..
joe_the_user 4y ago
I think a common answer to "Why Mars" is that human beings need a last resort should earth become uninhabitable. I'd turn that around, "We need to start thinking about how human beings are utterly dependent on Earth for the forseeable future and how we're destroying her, because there's no planet B in the time frame global warming is unfolding". Start working on protecting what we have. Don't flatter yourself into thinking there's an alternative. I'm sure many have read William Shatner's narrative of his trip to real space but if you haven't, you should. "I saw a cold, dark, black emptiness. It was unlike any blackness you can see or feel on Earth. It was deep, enveloping, all-encompassing. I turned back toward the light of home. I could see the curvature of Earth, the beige of the desert, the white of the clouds and the blue of the sky. It was life. Nurturing, sustaining, life. Mother Earth. Gaia. And I was leaving her." (and continues...) https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/william-shatner-space-boldly-go-excerpt-1235395113/ https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/william-shatner-space-boldl...
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  What could possibly make Earth as uninhabitable as Mars, without destroying Mars as well? And why not invest in technology that could keep people alive on Earth in Martian-style conditions (without all the extra problems of logistics and low gravity)? Let's first create a self-sustaining vault that can house a million people for indefinite amounts of time on Earth, and then let's revisit sending humans to Mars with all the new technology we developed doing so. In the meantime, let's actually spend space program resources on actual useful exploration, such as finding out if there is life on Mars or on other liquid-water worlds in the Solar System (such as Europa). Confirming or denying this would be a much much much bigger boon to scientific understanding than getting an ISS-style outpost to last a few years on Mars, and it would also be far cheaper.
  - jokethrowaway 4y ago
    Probably a storm of asteroids directed at Earth.
    - jboy55 4y ago
srinivgp 4y ago
Not easier. More awesome.

bryanlarsen 4y ago

If we discovered something quite valuable on the Balleny Islands, a viable colony would be established to exploit it very quickly. Hard problems on Earth get solved regularly, but they only get solved when there is sufficient payback to justify the costs of finding those solutions.

kibwen 4y ago
If the goal here is to suggest that Mars contains any natural resources of significant economic value, it doesn't.
- moloch-hai 4y ago
  "Broadcast videos of basketball games there" is the best proposed export I have seen. But the moon is better for that.
knodi123 4y ago
What are you going to find on mars to justify a colony? Best answer I've heard is "a portion of the raw materials you'd need to build a colony", which isn't even a circular justification - it's an incomplete circle!. Without the added justification of "because it's another planet, and that's so cool", I don't think a mars colony makes a lick of sense.
- oceanplexian 4y ago
  Mars has a weaker gravity well, so getting to space is a lot easier than it is from Earth. And while the moon might sound better, unlike the Moon, it has enough gravity where the human body might be able to adapt without crippling bone and muscle loss. This makes Mars pretty ideal as a home base, if you assume that in the future we are planning to mine and process asteroids for rare minerals and metals.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > it has enough gravity where the human body might be able to adapt without crippling bone and muscle loss. I love the "might" qualifier. Let's not forget the heart and circulatory problems too.
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 4y ago
    why do we even care about all this. establishing a space station on mars to make it easier to travel the rest of the galaxy.. is already circular logic but we're 100s of years away from achieving that now. 20 to get a human there. 30 more to build anything habitable and then we don't even know if its self sustainable but if it is.. 20 or 30 more to build a viable space center anddddd... we haven't actually improved life at all, just explored a sliver more of the galaxy and none of us will even get to witness it .
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      Don't forget that "self sustainable" would be a pipe dream - there's no conceivable possibility of producing advanced machinery such as electronics on Mars given current or near-future technology. Also, there's a very good chance that this type of exploration of Mars will forever contaminate it preventing us from using Mars to explore the origins of biological life, a much more important and achievable goal than space colonization, and one that doesn't shut out the other one in a farther future.
      - verisimi 4y ago
        It's a lovely dream though. Lots of people have grown up with that dream - it's going to be hard to give up. Surely we can spend a few bucks on it to show willing and satisfy the dreamers?
- m4rtink 4y ago
  Its the gate to the asteroid belt. Also only survivable body with some atmosphere reasonably close to Earth. So as already mentioned, good local base for other activities in much more hostile surroundings.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  Buried ruins of a long gone civilization, maybe? With instructions for their 'gone enabler' engraved in dura-marble? SPACEDRIVE! :-)

esperent 4y ago

> why aren't people doing this already on the Balleny Islands? How would you make these islands habitable, including having a good atmosphere, without affecting the rest of Earth's ecosystem in undesirable ways? That's one major difference. A goal of terraforming mars might actually be easier than terraforming remote islands on earth because: A. It's an isolated system B. We can afford to fail

8note 4y ago
Ship in some dirt, add some mirrors and greenhouses. Build a port, and have people delivery stuff by boat. It's not that hard to do
- verisimi 4y ago
  Take some of earth's water back... We could stretch out a long hosepipe..

joe_the_user 4y ago

I think a common answer to "Why Mars" is that human beings need a last resort should earth become uninhabitable. I'd turn that around, "We need to start thinking about how human beings are utterly dependent on Earth for the forseeable future and how we're destroying her, because there's no planet B in the time frame global warming is unfolding". Start working on protecting what we have. Don't flatter yourself into thinking there's an alternative. I'm sure many have read William Shatner's narrative of his trip to real space but if you haven't, you should. "I saw a cold, dark, black emptiness. It was unlike any blackness you can see or feel on Earth. It was deep, enveloping, all-encompassing. I turned back toward the light of home. I could see the curvature of Earth, the beige of the desert, the white of the clouds and the blue of the sky. It was life. Nurturing, sustaining, life. Mother Earth. Gaia. And I was leaving her." (and continues...) https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/william-shatner-space-boldly-go-excerpt-1235395113/ https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/william-shatner-space-boldl...

tsimionescu 4y ago
What could possibly make Earth as uninhabitable as Mars, without destroying Mars as well? And why not invest in technology that could keep people alive on Earth in Martian-style conditions (without all the extra problems of logistics and low gravity)? Let's first create a self-sustaining vault that can house a million people for indefinite amounts of time on Earth, and then let's revisit sending humans to Mars with all the new technology we developed doing so. In the meantime, let's actually spend space program resources on actual useful exploration, such as finding out if there is life on Mars or on other liquid-water worlds in the Solar System (such as Europa). Confirming or denying this would be a much much much bigger boon to scientific understanding than getting an ISS-style outpost to last a few years on Mars, and it would also be far cheaper.
- jokethrowaway 4y ago
  Probably a storm of asteroids directed at Earth.
  - jboy55 4y ago

srinivgp 4y ago

Not easier. More awesome.