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Curing death would have obvious downsides. Most people would not be able to procreate - the world would overcrowd. The really bad people of history could find t

Curing death would have obvious downsides. Most people would not be able to procreate - the world would overcrowd. The really bad people of history could find themselves in permanent long-lasting power (think Putin for a modern example). I think you can come up with 100 reasons why curing death would be bad. As Steve Jobs said, death is life's greatest invention.

kiba 4y ago
The really bad people of history could find themselves in permanent long-lasting power (think Putin for a modern example). I think you can come up with 100 reasons why curing death would be bad. As Steve Jobs said, death is life's greatest invention. On the contrary, Putin showed how dictatorships are vulnerable to defeat, if not collapse. It seems more like we're justifying death rather than solving challenges.
- rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
  Hilarious to hear that we are justifying something that naturally occurs, but let's indulge the train of thought-- The elimination of death would necessitate that each individual would consume indefinitely, whereas the planet has finite resources. So, at some point, children must stop being born, and governments must either enforce infertility or make having sex illegal.
  - gallerdude 4y ago
    Animals viciously murdering each other for food is also natural, that doesn’t mean it’s preferable. I would imagine if death were cured, a very small percentage of people would actually want to live forever. I imagine most people would want to live between 1x and say, 5x an average lifespan.
    - kiba 4y ago
      It's a silly question to ask. Do you think about where you will go to the restroom 20 years into the future? No. Same thing with lifespan questions. You'll presumably die in some sort of accident.
    - nradov 4y ago
      Why is it not preferable for animals to viciously murder each other for food? There's nothing wrong with it. It's quite a beautiful thing once you understand the natural world.
gallerdude 4y ago
Yeah, there are downsides to everything, the question is whether pros > cons. Imagine tomorrow, some mystical cosmic event made it impossible for people to die of natural causes. Would you institute a law that once someone made it to 100 years old, they should be executed? This would prevent most of the downsides curing death would spring. I think the answer to this is obviously no, that would be completely foolish, if not immoral. But when we start with the status quo of death existing, puzzlingly, most people think death is a good thing.
- gpvos 4y ago
  Enforcing it completely would be rather hard, but I think in principle it might be a good idea.
rossnordby 4y ago
>Most people would not be able to procreate - the world would overcrowd. This isn't quite true. Suppose no one dies. Starting from a population of 10 billion, suppose every person can have one child. The population after one iteration is 15 billion. If those 5 billion then each have one child, the next iteration's population is 17.5 billion. This converges to 2x the original population. In fact, so long as not everyone has 2 kids, it will converge to a finite value. (Edit: also, this problem takes places on the timescale of HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of years. The year 2500 is not going to look like today.) >The really bad people of history could find themselves in permanent long-lasting power (think Putin for a modern example). In many cases, dictatorships do not end with the dictator's old age. This is true both in the sense that they sometimes die early, and in the sense that they're prone to dynasties. The system of a dictatorship already has agelessness, just not indestructibility. >I think you can come up with 100 reasons why curing death would be bad. You can indeed do that, but it's worth keeping the screaming torture of the default in perspective. It's really hard to do worse than aging. I wouldn't want to see my parents wither, suffer, and die. I don't want to die knowing my children would wither, suffer, and die. I don't want you to wither, suffer, and die. I don't want people to have to grieve the loss of their loved ones. We can just... get rid of the ultrabadness, and have more of the good things. There are new problems that would have to be addressed, but they are addressable! Sometimes, things just aren't that complicated.
Qem 4y ago
People would still eventually die of accidents. Undying doesn't imply unkillable.
derbOac 4y ago
Honestly I think if we got to a point where death were eliminated, we would also be able to eliminate personological "badness", or at least it wouldn't be too far behind. If it weren't, it would certainly become a focus, and probably within reach.
- gpvos 4y ago
  Why do you think that? I see no basis for that belief, rather the opposite.

kiba 4y ago

The really bad people of history could find themselves in permanent long-lasting power (think Putin for a modern example). I think you can come up with 100 reasons why curing death would be bad. As Steve Jobs said, death is life's greatest invention. On the contrary, Putin showed how dictatorships are vulnerable to defeat, if not collapse. It seems more like we're justifying death rather than solving challenges.

rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
Hilarious to hear that we are justifying something that naturally occurs, but let's indulge the train of thought-- The elimination of death would necessitate that each individual would consume indefinitely, whereas the planet has finite resources. So, at some point, children must stop being born, and governments must either enforce infertility or make having sex illegal.
- gallerdude 4y ago
  Animals viciously murdering each other for food is also natural, that doesn’t mean it’s preferable. I would imagine if death were cured, a very small percentage of people would actually want to live forever. I imagine most people would want to live between 1x and say, 5x an average lifespan.
  - kiba 4y ago
    It's a silly question to ask. Do you think about where you will go to the restroom 20 years into the future? No. Same thing with lifespan questions. You'll presumably die in some sort of accident.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Why is it not preferable for animals to viciously murder each other for food? There's nothing wrong with it. It's quite a beautiful thing once you understand the natural world.

gallerdude 4y ago

Yeah, there are downsides to everything, the question is whether pros > cons. Imagine tomorrow, some mystical cosmic event made it impossible for people to die of natural causes. Would you institute a law that once someone made it to 100 years old, they should be executed? This would prevent most of the downsides curing death would spring. I think the answer to this is obviously no, that would be completely foolish, if not immoral. But when we start with the status quo of death existing, puzzlingly, most people think death is a good thing.

gpvos 4y ago
Enforcing it completely would be rather hard, but I think in principle it might be a good idea.

rossnordby 4y ago

>Most people would not be able to procreate - the world would overcrowd. This isn't quite true. Suppose no one dies. Starting from a population of 10 billion, suppose every person can have one child. The population after one iteration is 15 billion. If those 5 billion then each have one child, the next iteration's population is 17.5 billion. This converges to 2x the original population. In fact, so long as not everyone has 2 kids, it will converge to a finite value. (Edit: also, this problem takes places on the timescale of HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of years. The year 2500 is not going to look like today.) >The really bad people of history could find themselves in permanent long-lasting power (think Putin for a modern example). In many cases, dictatorships do not end with the dictator's old age. This is true both in the sense that they sometimes die early, and in the sense that they're prone to dynasties. The system of a dictatorship already has agelessness, just not indestructibility. >I think you can come up with 100 reasons why curing death would be bad. You can indeed do that, but it's worth keeping the screaming torture of the default in perspective. It's really hard to do worse than aging. I wouldn't want to see my parents wither, suffer, and die. I don't want to die knowing my children would wither, suffer, and die. I don't want you to wither, suffer, and die. I don't want people to have to grieve the loss of their loved ones. We can just... get rid of the ultrabadness, and have more of the good things. There are new problems that would have to be addressed, but they are addressable! Sometimes, things just aren't that complicated.

Qem 4y ago

People would still eventually die of accidents. Undying doesn't imply unkillable.

derbOac 4y ago

Honestly I think if we got to a point where death were eliminated, we would also be able to eliminate personological "badness", or at least it wouldn't be too far behind. If it weren't, it would certainly become a focus, and probably within reach.

gpvos 4y ago
Why do you think that? I see no basis for that belief, rather the opposite.