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It’s funny, 15 years ago I made 30 percent of what I make today and I could afford a home in the same area I’m in today, but today I would need to make about 1.

by ok_dad 4y ago

It’s funny, 15 years ago I made 30 percent of what I make today and I could afford a home in the same area I’m in today, but today I would need to make about 1.5x more to afford a home here. Capitalism isn’t “free markets”, it’s “the power goes to the people with capital” and that’s only the top one percent of one percent, for the most part.

Msw242 4y ago
Ironically the top 1% don't have enough votes to block relaxed zoning, which would enable developers to bring more supply to your market
- coliveira 4y ago
  Ironically, the top 1% can buy votes, in one way or another, to do pretty much anything they want.
  - therealdrag0 4y ago
    Except be elected. See Bloomberg and Jeb bush etc.
    - coliveira 4y ago
      You forget that Bloomberg's and Jeb's opponents were also supported by big capital. Big capital wins no matter who's elected.
  - Msw242 4y ago
    You're thinking about this policy area incorrectly The 1% win no matter how we design the housing market. They don't need to thumb the scale
  - creativenolo 4y ago
    And kill off will or options.
  - robocat 4y ago
    The USA top 1% occurs at about 400k income for an individual. Can any software men/women here comment on how many votes they can buy?
WalterBright 4y ago
The government has interfered extensively in the housing market, this causes prices to go up. The same for the education and health care operations. In the software business, which government has so far not interfered with, prices have declined to zero (literally) with lots and lots of revolutionary software being developed.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  > In the software business, which government has so far not interfered with, prices have declined to zero (literally) with lots and lots of revolutionary software being developed. Famously, software doesn't take any more resources to build and share than a few electrons and a laptop, so not quite the same market as homes which require a massive amount of resources to build.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  I would argue that prices are not zero, they're just not paid in dollars. Ad-supported software is effectively a barter economy where the consumer does not know the true value of what they're trading away.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    They are definitely zero. How many dollars have you paid for Linux?
chii 4y ago
> but today I would need to make about 1.5x more to afford a home here. but there's no reason why you'd expect that the price of anything would stay at the exact same ratio it was 30 yrs ago. The increase in prices of real estate is demand and supply driven, which implies that way more people got way more richer than you in the intrim 15 yrs. And not to mention some bad gov't policies that prevented an increase in supply, while demand increased, and you see high prices.
- ok_dad 4y ago
  > but there's no reason why you'd expect that the price of anything would stay at the exact same ratio it was 30 yrs ago. I am specifically saying that homes in my area, and most others, have risen in price at a MUCH faster rate than incomes. My example was meant to describe that situation, not just "standard inflation".

by ok_dad 4y ago

Msw242 4y ago

Ironically the top 1% don't have enough votes to block relaxed zoning, which would enable developers to bring more supply to your market

coliveira 4y ago
Ironically, the top 1% can buy votes, in one way or another, to do pretty much anything they want.
- therealdrag0 4y ago
  Except be elected. See Bloomberg and Jeb bush etc.
  - coliveira 4y ago
    You forget that Bloomberg's and Jeb's opponents were also supported by big capital. Big capital wins no matter who's elected.
- Msw242 4y ago
  You're thinking about this policy area incorrectly The 1% win no matter how we design the housing market. They don't need to thumb the scale
- creativenolo 4y ago
  And kill off will or options.
- robocat 4y ago
  The USA top 1% occurs at about 400k income for an individual. Can any software men/women here comment on how many votes they can buy?

WalterBright 4y ago

The government has interfered extensively in the housing market, this causes prices to go up. The same for the education and health care operations. In the software business, which government has so far not interfered with, prices have declined to zero (literally) with lots and lots of revolutionary software being developed.

ok_dad 4y ago
> In the software business, which government has so far not interfered with, prices have declined to zero (literally) with lots and lots of revolutionary software being developed. Famously, software doesn't take any more resources to build and share than a few electrons and a laptop, so not quite the same market as homes which require a massive amount of resources to build.
AlexandrB 4y ago
I would argue that prices are not zero, they're just not paid in dollars. Ad-supported software is effectively a barter economy where the consumer does not know the true value of what they're trading away.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  They are definitely zero. How many dollars have you paid for Linux?

chii 4y ago

> but today I would need to make about 1.5x more to afford a home here. but there's no reason why you'd expect that the price of anything would stay at the exact same ratio it was 30 yrs ago. The increase in prices of real estate is demand and supply driven, which implies that way more people got way more richer than you in the intrim 15 yrs. And not to mention some bad gov't policies that prevented an increase in supply, while demand increased, and you see high prices.

ok_dad 4y ago
> but there's no reason why you'd expect that the price of anything would stay at the exact same ratio it was 30 yrs ago. I am specifically saying that homes in my area, and most others, have risen in price at a MUCH faster rate than incomes. My example was meant to describe that situation, not just "standard inflation".