7 ms·

I'm progressive and live in an east coast city - but to be honest I don't support the proliferation of sex work or the removal of social stigma. Sites like Onl

I'm progressive and live in an east coast city - but to be honest I don't support the proliferation of sex work or the removal of social stigma. Sites like OnlyFans are really just a conduit for further exploitation and promoting the idea to other young women that selling their bodies is an acceptable form of income. It's certainly dystopian for AirBnB to target customers like this - but the government is who pioneered this kind of outsourced sleuthing. If I was a host on AirBnB the last thing I'd want is for my property to be used to shoot a porno - clearly that's the intent of AirBnB I can't really blame them here other than the way they went about doing it.

mbg721 4y ago
This issue creates some strange political bedfellows; hardcore midwestern conservatives and disconcerted coastal liberals see the sharing-economy of sex and agree that it's exploitative and bad for women.
- 71a54xd 4y ago
  I think we're slowly entering a new era of intellectual / practical honesty as a result of so much division and political grandstanding. Nuanced opinion is important - not changing what you think to fit into a cookie cutter thought group is how we understand what we really want, what progress is and who to exclude as irate grifters (on both sides of the isle). The issue of abortion also shows similar political bedfellows - even deep red states where Trump won by 20+ points during the 2016 election have vehemently upheld access to abortion.
  - mbg721 4y ago
    The abortion issue is especially weird to me, because I'm heavily emotionally invested in the Catholic extreme worldview while conservatives as a whole are not.
    - 71a54xd 4y ago
      IMO as someone who grew up in the south, I had friends in very deeply religious families who got abortions quietly. They clearly knew it was the best course of action to reduce emotional harm, a potential bad life for the child and cover for peers who would religiously shame them (ironic - I know).
  - peekopop 4y ago
    [flagged]
TheAceOfHearts 4y ago
Society lets people sell their bodies in more exploitative ways for less money. Recently I was listening to an interview with a sex worker talking about how she far preferred that to working in a factory.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Society lets people sell their bodies in more exploitative ways for less money. Marginalizing sex work is done largely to increase the supply of labor (and thereby depress its price) for other forms of exploitation. (Making those who remain sex workers more exploitable by removing access to the resources other workers have is also a motive.)
- rgoulter 4y ago
  I liked this essay on the topic. I recall it discussing that, while sex work is often pretty shitty, so are the alternatives; and discusses how while society will judge sex work (as exploitative), not much is done to sincerely protect/benefit sex workers, either. https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-35/essays/cashconsent/ https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-35/essays/cashconsent/
- Georgelemental 4y ago
  If factories have exploitative working conditions, pass laws to fix that. Don't legalize more immorality and exploitation
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    > immorality Your opinion, if you mean there's an inherent difference from other jobs. > exploitation Every new kind of job is "more exploitation" at some level. That's not a good enough reason by itself.
    - Georgelemental 4y ago
      Prostitution is immoral because it: - Weakens the nuclear family, which is the foundation of stable civilization, by decoupling sex from responsibility - Exploits women, and then once they have grown old and wrinkled leaves them without support of any kind - Can result in a child, which the prostitute is likely not equipped to care for
throwaway743 4y ago
Wouldn't encourage anybody to get into sex work, but it's no one's place to tell others what they can and can't do with their body. The industry should be regulated for the safety of workers and to help root out exploitative/abusive scumbags.
- 71a54xd 4y ago
  Sure, but then again regulating drugs for the safety of addicts whom we shouldn't tell what to do / not do with their bodies has gone great over the last two decades... I was stunned to travel to the Netherlands to find that even in a country where sex work is legal - Dutch citizens have done everything they can to close the red-light district in Amsterdam and see the industry as a source of crime and degeneracy. Those engaging are still largely ostracized, shamed and seen to have a net negative affect on Dutch society at large.
  - throwaway743 4y ago
    Where are you talking about? Definitely hasnt been done in the States. Portugal seems fine. Also, could careless about pearl clutchers and moral zealots shaming folks for what they choose to do with their own bodies. They're the real problem in society. Always have been.
- LargeTomato 4y ago
  We should actually discourage people from pursuing sex work. Stigma and "whorephobia" (a term from the article) is a perfect way to do that.
  - throwaway743 4y ago
    No, we shouldn't shame anyone. Let them do what they want with their bodies and accept them as equals in society.
    - Georgelemental 4y ago
      Shame is a useful social technology, that evolved for good reason—to enforce important social norms necessary for society's survival.
IIAOPSW 4y ago
Well then you are agreeing to live with some very detestable general principles just for the short lived victory of seeing your moral convictions enforced in this specific case. Who cares what her past employment is or if you approve of it. Are we all just supposed to acquiesce to McCarthy style blacklists just so long as they target the "right people" like sex workers rather than the wrong people like "Communists"? Are you really happy to live in a world where the concept of a "no fly list" has been extended by private entities into a "no room and board", "no attend show", "no serve food" list that you could be put on for any reason without being told and with no due process to get off it? Later in the thread you justify yourself as "deep into Catholicism". What makes you so sure that tomorrow you won't be stranded somewhere unable to buy gas because the service station camera recognized your face in a database of religious extremists? No one should have to worry about being discriminated against on the grounds of wholly irrelevant personal business. Your personal feelings on the morality of others isn't grounds to revoke their rights.

mbg721 4y ago

This issue creates some strange political bedfellows; hardcore midwestern conservatives and disconcerted coastal liberals see the sharing-economy of sex and agree that it's exploitative and bad for women.

71a54xd 4y ago
I think we're slowly entering a new era of intellectual / practical honesty as a result of so much division and political grandstanding. Nuanced opinion is important - not changing what you think to fit into a cookie cutter thought group is how we understand what we really want, what progress is and who to exclude as irate grifters (on both sides of the isle). The issue of abortion also shows similar political bedfellows - even deep red states where Trump won by 20+ points during the 2016 election have vehemently upheld access to abortion.
- mbg721 4y ago
  The abortion issue is especially weird to me, because I'm heavily emotionally invested in the Catholic extreme worldview while conservatives as a whole are not.
  - 71a54xd 4y ago
    IMO as someone who grew up in the south, I had friends in very deeply religious families who got abortions quietly. They clearly knew it was the best course of action to reduce emotional harm, a potential bad life for the child and cover for peers who would religiously shame them (ironic - I know).
- peekopop 4y ago
  [flagged]

TheAceOfHearts 4y ago

Society lets people sell their bodies in more exploitative ways for less money. Recently I was listening to an interview with a sex worker talking about how she far preferred that to working in a factory.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Society lets people sell their bodies in more exploitative ways for less money. Marginalizing sex work is done largely to increase the supply of labor (and thereby depress its price) for other forms of exploitation. (Making those who remain sex workers more exploitable by removing access to the resources other workers have is also a motive.)
rgoulter 4y ago
I liked this essay on the topic. I recall it discussing that, while sex work is often pretty shitty, so are the alternatives; and discusses how while society will judge sex work (as exploitative), not much is done to sincerely protect/benefit sex workers, either. https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-35/essays/cashconsent/ https://www.nplusonemag.com/issue-35/essays/cashconsent/
Georgelemental 4y ago
If factories have exploitative working conditions, pass laws to fix that. Don't legalize more immorality and exploitation
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  > immorality Your opinion, if you mean there's an inherent difference from other jobs. > exploitation Every new kind of job is "more exploitation" at some level. That's not a good enough reason by itself.
  - Georgelemental 4y ago
    Prostitution is immoral because it: - Weakens the nuclear family, which is the foundation of stable civilization, by decoupling sex from responsibility - Exploits women, and then once they have grown old and wrinkled leaves them without support of any kind - Can result in a child, which the prostitute is likely not equipped to care for

throwaway743 4y ago

Wouldn't encourage anybody to get into sex work, but it's no one's place to tell others what they can and can't do with their body. The industry should be regulated for the safety of workers and to help root out exploitative/abusive scumbags.

71a54xd 4y ago
Sure, but then again regulating drugs for the safety of addicts whom we shouldn't tell what to do / not do with their bodies has gone great over the last two decades... I was stunned to travel to the Netherlands to find that even in a country where sex work is legal - Dutch citizens have done everything they can to close the red-light district in Amsterdam and see the industry as a source of crime and degeneracy. Those engaging are still largely ostracized, shamed and seen to have a net negative affect on Dutch society at large.
- throwaway743 4y ago
  Where are you talking about? Definitely hasnt been done in the States. Portugal seems fine. Also, could careless about pearl clutchers and moral zealots shaming folks for what they choose to do with their own bodies. They're the real problem in society. Always have been.
LargeTomato 4y ago
We should actually discourage people from pursuing sex work. Stigma and "whorephobia" (a term from the article) is a perfect way to do that.
- throwaway743 4y ago
  No, we shouldn't shame anyone. Let them do what they want with their bodies and accept them as equals in society.
  - Georgelemental 4y ago
    Shame is a useful social technology, that evolved for good reason—to enforce important social norms necessary for society's survival.

IIAOPSW 4y ago

Well then you are agreeing to live with some very detestable general principles just for the short lived victory of seeing your moral convictions enforced in this specific case. Who cares what her past employment is or if you approve of it. Are we all just supposed to acquiesce to McCarthy style blacklists just so long as they target the "right people" like sex workers rather than the wrong people like "Communists"? Are you really happy to live in a world where the concept of a "no fly list" has been extended by private entities into a "no room and board", "no attend show", "no serve food" list that you could be put on for any reason without being told and with no due process to get off it? Later in the thread you justify yourself as "deep into Catholicism". What makes you so sure that tomorrow you won't be stranded somewhere unable to buy gas because the service station camera recognized your face in a database of religious extremists? No one should have to worry about being discriminated against on the grounds of wholly irrelevant personal business. Your personal feelings on the morality of others isn't grounds to revoke their rights.