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One of the things not mentioned here is that doctors are genuine professionals. Software developers, on the other hand, are in this weird limbo where some cons

by fsloth 4y ago

One of the things not mentioned here is that doctors are genuine professionals. Software developers, on the other hand, are in this weird limbo where some consider themselves as professionals and others do not. I am using the term "professional" in the wikipedia sense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional. Similarly, some organizations treat software engineers as professionals, and other consider them closer to manual labor. The result is there is no shared understanding what it means to be a software engineer. Therefore it's quite hard to discuss software engineers as a single body of professionals, as the loose definition of the field means there won't be a single definition everyone could fall into. What I read from the article is that the author defines his "professionalism" as "inhabiting the monastery". That is fair and good, but there is no reason this definition and feeling should be shared with anyone else in the field. This lack of shared definition probably drives a lot of disillusionment. Someone thinks they are entering a monastery, but the next guy is there just to sweep the floors for a living. In monasteries most people are there to search for the higher purpose. But in software industry, "sweeping floors" is the most plausible job description, where no holy insight is expected to be gained. The described disillusionment might not be because the business is pathological (which it may very well) but because the practitioner entered the field with false expectations, imagining perhaps grand technological projects to move humanity forward, but founding themselves in the "sweeping factory". Another thing that comes to my mind - generally once you've been in the industry for a decade or so you are middle aged, and probably entering your middle age crisis where steretypically people re-evaluate their priorities and life goals. Which, given generally sofware people are not the dumbest people around, means there are lot of displeased people trying to search more meaningful careers, and given their general aptitude in complex tasks, can find lot of other fields (that don't need years of complex studioes) where they are quite good as well.

ravenstine 4y ago
The problem in my eyes is that we're often not allowed to be professionals. Being a software developer can often feel little different from being in a high school programming class. Paradoxically, this feeling can have a positive correlation with years of experience. Looking back, I should have cherished my time as a junior developer because, frankly, I got to do more interesting things, write more original code, and actually have more say as to how work was going to be accomplished. By the time of being a high-tier mid-level or a senior engineer, the work not only becomes less interesting but is entrenched in a company's way of doing things. Somehow, senior engineers find themselves really not having as much power or influence over what they're working on. Hell, even lead developers often have limited power and are more or less supervisors with the responsibility of writing code. While the senior engineer's non-programmer friends get their own office or cube, he's sitting at a "shared" desk that's more or less a glorified high school computer lab with no personal touches. Few software developers manage to distinguish themselves or obtain a semblance of prestige. Those who do usually don't entirely deserve it, in my opinion. Software developers with name recognition today either are in the business of shilling books or founded a company that makes some parasitic social media product that makes the world a worse place. Or they're promoting some paradigm as gospel. Some exceptions include language and framework inventors; I think people have generally good opinions of Guido van Rossum, DHH, Ryan Dahl, Rich Harris, and so on. These people are still largely nobodies outside of software developer circles, despite the impact their creations have had on the world as a whole and on the careers of countless others. I think a major part of the disillusionment that goes unsaid is that "tech" today is far more associated with cyber dystopias than any sort of positive view of the future where software and humanity work together to solve real problems. This isn't to say the pessimistic view is a new one, because it's been around since time immemorial, but I do think that the institution of Silicon Valley isn't seen as favorable by the mainstream as it used to. When I got into software full time, programming as a career was in a bit of a renaissance after the recovery from 2008 and the easy money started really flowing. Joining an "innovative" startup was considered really cool, even by people who weren't programmers. Today, working in software and being a part of this industry is much closer to being seen as selling one's soul to the devil. When people think "tech", they think of cryptocurrency scams, Mark Zuckerberg, useful features disappearing on sites like YouTube, devices like Echo/Alexa that fail to live up to their promise, apps like TikTok warping the minds of young people, Tesla cars with their false advertising and shoddy production quality, the increasing prevalence of ads on streaming services... the list goes on and on. It all comes off as a giant swindle. The health care industry is a swindle too, but it still solves life and death problems. Most "tech" doesn't, but is a psy-op to dupe people out of their time and money. Doctors and surgeons don't completely change their toolset every 5 years because of the opinions of other doctors. Gee, I can't imagine why frustrated doctors stay in their field while programmers throw in the towel so often. Finally, I do think there's an unshakable taintedness to being a programmer while there's simultaneously an unshakable romanticism around being a doctor, or a lawyer, or even a starving artist. Programmers invest a ton of time and effort into learning their craft, and some end up sacrificing their social lives in their 20s with the belief that they'll really start living in their 30s after they've made a lot of money and have that senior title. They come to find that half their paycheck goes to the state, the women they're romantically interested in think programmers are "eww grody", and they've become pseudoautistic from a lack of healthy social interaction. A woman programmer may feel even more disillusioned because of biological reasons, and without the sort of respect they'd have had if they went to medical school. Some part of you has to love the field of software in order to stay in it. Unless you make beyond the average six-figure paycheck, you probably won't find fulfillment from anywhere but within.
gitfan86 4y ago
Most of the conflicts I have had in my career were due to this misunderstanding. Someone in a manager position telling me to sweep the floor in a certain way and me telling them that it doesn't make any sense to even sweep that floor since we are getting new hardwoods installed tomorrow. From their perspective I'm supposed to do what they said exactly as they said it, and from my perspective they are clearly not qualified to be making decisions on how the floor should be swept.
nradov 4y ago
The IEEE Computer Society has been attempting for years to "professionalize" the software development field with a defined body of knowledge (SWEBOK), code of ethics, education and experience requirements, and certifications. It's a noble goal but so far no one really cares. https://www.computer.org/education https://www.computer.org/education I think a lot of people just don't understand the terminology. One can be a professional software developer, but for the most part software development isn't a true profession. It's more like a trade. There is a difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession https://www.pearson.com/en-us/subject-catalog/p/professional-software-development-shorter-schedules-higher-quality-products-more-successful-projects-enhanced-careers/P200000009280/9780321193674 https://www.pearson.com/en-us/subject-catalog/p/professional...
- fsloth 4y ago
  Yes, the difference in trade vs profession is the succinct way to put this.

by fsloth 4y ago

ravenstine 4y ago

The problem in my eyes is that we're often not allowed to be professionals. Being a software developer can often feel little different from being in a high school programming class. Paradoxically, this feeling can have a positive correlation with years of experience. Looking back, I should have cherished my time as a junior developer because, frankly, I got to do more interesting things, write more original code, and actually have more say as to how work was going to be accomplished. By the time of being a high-tier mid-level or a senior engineer, the work not only becomes less interesting but is entrenched in a company's way of doing things. Somehow, senior engineers find themselves really not having as much power or influence over what they're working on. Hell, even lead developers often have limited power and are more or less supervisors with the responsibility of writing code. While the senior engineer's non-programmer friends get their own office or cube, he's sitting at a "shared" desk that's more or less a glorified high school computer lab with no personal touches. Few software developers manage to distinguish themselves or obtain a semblance of prestige. Those who do usually don't entirely deserve it, in my opinion. Software developers with name recognition today either are in the business of shilling books or founded a company that makes some parasitic social media product that makes the world a worse place. Or they're promoting some paradigm as gospel. Some exceptions include language and framework inventors; I think people have generally good opinions of Guido van Rossum, DHH, Ryan Dahl, Rich Harris, and so on. These people are still largely nobodies outside of software developer circles, despite the impact their creations have had on the world as a whole and on the careers of countless others. I think a major part of the disillusionment that goes unsaid is that "tech" today is far more associated with cyber dystopias than any sort of positive view of the future where software and humanity work together to solve real problems. This isn't to say the pessimistic view is a new one, because it's been around since time immemorial, but I do think that the institution of Silicon Valley isn't seen as favorable by the mainstream as it used to. When I got into software full time, programming as a career was in a bit of a renaissance after the recovery from 2008 and the easy money started really flowing. Joining an "innovative" startup was considered really cool, even by people who weren't programmers. Today, working in software and being a part of this industry is much closer to being seen as selling one's soul to the devil. When people think "tech", they think of cryptocurrency scams, Mark Zuckerberg, useful features disappearing on sites like YouTube, devices like Echo/Alexa that fail to live up to their promise, apps like TikTok warping the minds of young people, Tesla cars with their false advertising and shoddy production quality, the increasing prevalence of ads on streaming services... the list goes on and on. It all comes off as a giant swindle. The health care industry is a swindle too, but it still solves life and death problems. Most "tech" doesn't, but is a psy-op to dupe people out of their time and money. Doctors and surgeons don't completely change their toolset every 5 years because of the opinions of other doctors. Gee, I can't imagine why frustrated doctors stay in their field while programmers throw in the towel so often. Finally, I do think there's an unshakable taintedness to being a programmer while there's simultaneously an unshakable romanticism around being a doctor, or a lawyer, or even a starving artist. Programmers invest a ton of time and effort into learning their craft, and some end up sacrificing their social lives in their 20s with the belief that they'll really start living in their 30s after they've made a lot of money and have that senior title. They come to find that half their paycheck goes to the state, the women they're romantically interested in think programmers are "eww grody", and they've become pseudoautistic from a lack of healthy social interaction. A woman programmer may feel even more disillusioned because of biological reasons, and without the sort of respect they'd have had if they went to medical school. Some part of you has to love the field of software in order to stay in it. Unless you make beyond the average six-figure paycheck, you probably won't find fulfillment from anywhere but within.

gitfan86 4y ago

Most of the conflicts I have had in my career were due to this misunderstanding. Someone in a manager position telling me to sweep the floor in a certain way and me telling them that it doesn't make any sense to even sweep that floor since we are getting new hardwoods installed tomorrow. From their perspective I'm supposed to do what they said exactly as they said it, and from my perspective they are clearly not qualified to be making decisions on how the floor should be swept.

nradov 4y ago

The IEEE Computer Society has been attempting for years to "professionalize" the software development field with a defined body of knowledge (SWEBOK), code of ethics, education and experience requirements, and certifications. It's a noble goal but so far no one really cares. https://www.computer.org/education https://www.computer.org/education I think a lot of people just don't understand the terminology. One can be a professional software developer, but for the most part software development isn't a true profession. It's more like a trade. There is a difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profession https://www.pearson.com/en-us/subject-catalog/p/professional-software-development-shorter-schedules-higher-quality-products-more-successful-projects-enhanced-careers/P200000009280/9780321193674 https://www.pearson.com/en-us/subject-catalog/p/professional...

fsloth 4y ago
Yes, the difference in trade vs profession is the succinct way to put this.