8 ms·

It's become a huge selling point for me that I can walk into a store and talk to a human about a problem I am having with a product. Lately, this has meant that

by oidar 4y ago

It's become a huge selling point for me that I can walk into a store and talk to a human about a problem I am having with a product. Lately, this has meant that the Walmart online store gets more of my business than Amazon for items that aren't available at brick-and-mortar stores in my area. Because Walmart will take back items bought at the store and resolve problems right then and there. Amazon has started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it. I got a laptop/phone bracket that was made with some crappy, brittle plastic, but Amazon didn't accept returns on that item. If Walmart sold ebooks, I don't think I'd use Amazon anymore. After dealing with expired food and medicine through Subscribe and Save, Amazon delivery just throwing things on the ground and damaging them, and unreturnable items like the phone accessory, I am done with them for physical items. Getting through to Amazon customer service is a huge pain in the butt, especially now that the customer service flow is self-help -> text chat -> telephone chatbot -> foreign call center. With Walmart, I just drive a half block away, go to customer service, wait in line for five minutes, and boom, it's done. It's a breath of fresh air honestly.

delusional 4y ago
It's so bad that I've started to disregard any customer support that happens as a chat. I'd rather drop and email or a support ticket than talk to some godforsaken chatbot or wait in line for 2 hours to talk to a human. It seems to me that the "chat support" craze has been used as an excuse to gut customer support teams.
- johnea 4y ago
  This really shouldn't be a surprise. Even the outsourced Indian human support lines, where they are required to recite the corporate litany, and monitored to make sure they do, are really just human shields that protect the corporation from accountability...
  - miked85 4y ago
    Most of the outsourced support I've tried to get help from really might as well be chatbots. They will just keep repeating the same things which don't actually answer my question.
    - pishpash 4y ago
      They were mechanical Turks waiting for the real bot upgrade.
    - ck2 4y ago
      I think the human on the other side is given tools with canned responses to select from so they too often lean on that. That and they are required to have like 20+ windows open. I could not do that job.
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  I’m travelling in Asia at the moment, and I had forgotten how much I loved the WhatsApp customer support approach. Most businesses have a WhatsApp account, and you just send them a DM when you need to talk to somebody. Response times are typically very quick, and sending a DM takes sooooo much less effort than a phone call. I wish the rest of the world would adopt SEA’s love for WhatsApp business accounts.
  - bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
    In the US, Apple's iMessage support chat service is incredible and I'm correspondingly much more likely to do business with companies that offer it, just in case I end up needing support.
armchairhacker 4y ago
> Amazon has started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it Is that legal? I would not buy something where the seller can literally ship junk and legally you have no recourse.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Caveat Emptor. AFAIK it's legal. Might be courteous to disclose "no returns accepted" on such listings, but I don't think it's mandatory, at least not everywhere. Buy with a credit card that offers warranty coverage on purchased items.
  - archontes 4y ago
    It's reasonable they could do a chargeback on the basis of violation of implied warranty of fitness. Edit: it's probably a violation of implied warranty of merchantability.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Even brick and mortar stores definitely will sell special items (discontinued items, returned items, etc.) on an all sales final basis sometimes.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  in the US yeah. it takes coordinated pressure from the working class to get reasonable-seeming laws like that passed. when we leave our rights to corporate charity, this is what we're left with
  - drstewart 4y ago
    You mean Japan, not the US. https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/zt9ra1/why_is_it_not_possible_to_return_a_product/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/zt9ra1/why_is_it...
    - layer8 4y ago
ilyt 4y ago
> Amazon has started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it. I got a laptop/phone bracket that was made with some crappy, brittle plastic, but Amazon didn't accept returns on that item. Every time I read shit like that I feel like EU's intrusiveness and overreaching might in the end be worth it if it stops [1] corporation from shit like that * https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...
- strbean 4y ago
  Maybe the intrusiveness and overreaching was just fundamental consumer protections all along.
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    But probably the truth is somewhere in between, like most of the time.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Oh, no, there is definitely some questionable overreach in regulations, the most known example to the outside is probably just how shittily the "cookie law" was written, good intentions with law that made the intentions irrelevant as implementation just trained users to click the stupid button and get on with their day. And stuff like pushing for EVs before infrastructure is there, all while planes are fine and dandy to run on fucking leaded fuel...
    - tgv 4y ago
      The cookie law wasn't half as shitty as the lazy ways companies adhere to it. But even that I'll take any day over the time before the cookie law (which, BTW, is much more extensive than just regulating cookies).
      - tempestn 4y ago
        If a law results in companies taking actions that annoy and impede hundreds of millions of people in aggregate, there's something wrong with the law. Governments need to consider the actual effects when they write laws, not what the effects would be in an ideal world.
schappim 4y ago
> started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it I'm not sure if this is legal in Australia or EU. You might also have some state-level laws that would prevent this. Have you tried pushing back against them?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
johnea 4y ago
Micro Center RULES!!!
WalterBright 4y ago
Is a $9 bracket even worth your time to return it? It's going to take your time to return something at Walmart, too. What Amazon does for me is save the most valuable thing I have - time. Buying printer paper at a store costs me an hour + gas. Buying it from Amazon - 3 minutes.
- oidar 4y ago
  The time = money equation doesn't really work for my situation. I get a fixed amount of money every month, no matter how hard I work or don't work. I am picking up eggs and milk at Walmart anyways, so sure it's worth my time. Especially if I get to see the same faces every once in awhile. While they may not be paid the best, I'll take a smiling local face over a distant chatbot any day of the week. As to your example, buying printer paper online, this invariable leads to my box of printer paper being smashed by Amazon's delivery people (probably b/c they are paid like crap), and I have to return it - costing more than an hour + my frustration. So instead, I can drop by Walmart, pick up eggs and milk - and squeeze my tomatoes to make sure they aren't mush - look at my lettuce to check for slime, pick up a box of printer paper and drop off my return/exchange. Also, Target, Office Depot, Home Depot, Lowe's and Costco have great customer service compared to Amazon too. Walmart just has 3rd party sellers that other store don't offer - so Walmart is getting more of my online orders lately.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    I've bought endless stuff from Amazon, and only once got a damaged package (it was inadequately packed, the package wasn't abused). I'm not denying your experience, just that mine is positive.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      Ironically by far the biggest issue I’ve had with Amazon shipping is with books, specifically hardbacks with dust covers. They love to just throw them loose in a too-big box. Annoying when it’s a new release. Infuriating when it’s a 50 year old, long out of print book.
thaumasiotes 4y ago
> Amazon delivery just throwing things on the ground and damaging them My experience with the delivery people has been fine. But Amazon itself keeps wrapping books that I order in bubble-padded manila envelopes that are too tight. This causes obvious damage to the corners of the book. I have repeatedly complained to them about this, and their response is "we have no way to control what packaging is used on any shipment". They used to ship things in boxes. They should go back to that.
kypro 4y ago
It's interesting you say this because for some time people in my family were using Amazon's excellent customer service to make money by fraudulently lying about misdeliveries and product conditions. From what they told me customer services reps at Amazon basically ask no questions (unlike other stores) and would happily ship you multiple high-value items. Apparently you'd have to be strategical to not make it look too suspicious, but if you can get serval households involved you could get a few new phones for free over the course of a year. This was for higher value items though, and maybe Amazon's customer service / returns policy is different in the UK, but I'm genuinely surprised that you avoid Amazon for returns because from what I understand they're far more likely to accept a return than other retailers. I think I probably have a biased perspective because of my background, but 99% of the time when I hear about someone returning stuff they're doing it fraudulently. That cost is then passed on to people like myself who basically refuse to return anything unless I'm sure I'm 100% not at fault so in general I wish companies didn't do returns outside of exceptional circumstances. Also working for a phone insurance company and a retailer with a relaxed returns policy made me appreciate the insane level of fraud which has to be financed by honest consumers. But on the topic of in-store returns, one of the only times I've ever returned anything was a pair of £60 shoes which tore in the first week of normal use. I went to the store I brought it from and explained they tore and would like a replacement. The staff were extremely rude and tried to blame me which I found very uncomfortable. They then said they'd have to ship it to some department to assess if it can be repaired or replaced. A couple of weeks later I got a call saying it was decided I was at fault, so no replacement or refund would be issued and that I could come collect my shoes from the store. The store was about 30 minutes away from my house and I had to pay for parking, so this was all extremely inconvenient. Maybe it's just because I have social anxiety, but I'll take cheerful chatbot over having to deal with a rude person instore any day of the week. In fact, it's why I use Amazon. Their customer support has always been great for me.
- RRRA 4y ago
  I think on one side Amazon started punishing those who abused the return policy repeatedly and, on the other one, the chat support has become a shit show with people not being able to help and being just as bad as chatbots. I've personally been sent a single elastic band for hairs instead of 1 TB SSD, twice, and had to explain to them that shipping it back didn't make sense for either of us and eventually got what I needed them to understand, but only after wasting over an hour talking to some clown service who isn't allowed to use proof or their breaks. And that's just how things have been going in the last year, worst and worst...
andirk 4y ago
Amazon has officially turned heel and now everyone still uses them but at least they realize it often sucks. With so many other options I don't see why people use them if another option exists. Here's a video of horrible customer service that's better than Amazon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECZQ7qzGbUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECZQ7qzGbUY .

by oidar 4y ago

delusional 4y ago

It's so bad that I've started to disregard any customer support that happens as a chat. I'd rather drop and email or a support ticket than talk to some godforsaken chatbot or wait in line for 2 hours to talk to a human. It seems to me that the "chat support" craze has been used as an excuse to gut customer support teams.

johnea 4y ago
This really shouldn't be a surprise. Even the outsourced Indian human support lines, where they are required to recite the corporate litany, and monitored to make sure they do, are really just human shields that protect the corporation from accountability...
- miked85 4y ago
  Most of the outsourced support I've tried to get help from really might as well be chatbots. They will just keep repeating the same things which don't actually answer my question.
  - pishpash 4y ago
    They were mechanical Turks waiting for the real bot upgrade.
  - ck2 4y ago
    I think the human on the other side is given tools with canned responses to select from so they too often lean on that. That and they are required to have like 20+ windows open. I could not do that job.
AmericanChopper 4y ago
I’m travelling in Asia at the moment, and I had forgotten how much I loved the WhatsApp customer support approach. Most businesses have a WhatsApp account, and you just send them a DM when you need to talk to somebody. Response times are typically very quick, and sending a DM takes sooooo much less effort than a phone call. I wish the rest of the world would adopt SEA’s love for WhatsApp business accounts.
- bobbylarrybobby 4y ago
  In the US, Apple's iMessage support chat service is incredible and I'm correspondingly much more likely to do business with companies that offer it, just in case I end up needing support.

armchairhacker 4y ago

> Amazon has started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it Is that legal? I would not buy something where the seller can literally ship junk and legally you have no recourse.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Caveat Emptor. AFAIK it's legal. Might be courteous to disclose "no returns accepted" on such listings, but I don't think it's mandatory, at least not everywhere. Buy with a credit card that offers warranty coverage on purchased items.
- archontes 4y ago
  It's reasonable they could do a chargeback on the basis of violation of implied warranty of fitness. Edit: it's probably a violation of implied warranty of merchantability.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Even brick and mortar stores definitely will sell special items (discontinued items, returned items, etc.) on an all sales final basis sometimes.
wahnfrieden 4y ago
in the US yeah. it takes coordinated pressure from the working class to get reasonable-seeming laws like that passed. when we leave our rights to corporate charity, this is what we're left with
- drstewart 4y ago
  You mean Japan, not the US. https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/zt9ra1/why_is_it_not_possible_to_return_a_product/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japanlife/comments/zt9ra1/why_is_it...
  - layer8 4y ago

ilyt 4y ago

> Amazon has started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it. I got a laptop/phone bracket that was made with some crappy, brittle plastic, but Amazon didn't accept returns on that item. Every time I read shit like that I feel like EU's intrusiveness and overreaching might in the end be worth it if it stops [1] corporation from shit like that * https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...

strbean 4y ago
Maybe the intrusiveness and overreaching was just fundamental consumer protections all along.
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  But probably the truth is somewhere in between, like most of the time.
- ilyt 4y ago
  Oh, no, there is definitely some questionable overreach in regulations, the most known example to the outside is probably just how shittily the "cookie law" was written, good intentions with law that made the intentions irrelevant as implementation just trained users to click the stupid button and get on with their day. And stuff like pushing for EVs before infrastructure is there, all while planes are fine and dandy to run on fucking leaded fuel...
  - tgv 4y ago
    The cookie law wasn't half as shitty as the lazy ways companies adhere to it. But even that I'll take any day over the time before the cookie law (which, BTW, is much more extensive than just regulating cookies).
    - tempestn 4y ago
      If a law results in companies taking actions that annoy and impede hundreds of millions of people in aggregate, there's something wrong with the law. Governments need to consider the actual effects when they write laws, not what the effects would be in an ideal world.

schappim 4y ago

> started selling items that aren't returnable and I wish I could opt out of it I'm not sure if this is legal in Australia or EU. You might also have some state-level laws that would prevent this. Have you tried pushing back against them?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

johnea 4y ago

Micro Center RULES!!!

WalterBright 4y ago

Is a $9 bracket even worth your time to return it? It's going to take your time to return something at Walmart, too. What Amazon does for me is save the most valuable thing I have - time. Buying printer paper at a store costs me an hour + gas. Buying it from Amazon - 3 minutes.

oidar 4y ago
The time = money equation doesn't really work for my situation. I get a fixed amount of money every month, no matter how hard I work or don't work. I am picking up eggs and milk at Walmart anyways, so sure it's worth my time. Especially if I get to see the same faces every once in awhile. While they may not be paid the best, I'll take a smiling local face over a distant chatbot any day of the week. As to your example, buying printer paper online, this invariable leads to my box of printer paper being smashed by Amazon's delivery people (probably b/c they are paid like crap), and I have to return it - costing more than an hour + my frustration. So instead, I can drop by Walmart, pick up eggs and milk - and squeeze my tomatoes to make sure they aren't mush - look at my lettuce to check for slime, pick up a box of printer paper and drop off my return/exchange. Also, Target, Office Depot, Home Depot, Lowe's and Costco have great customer service compared to Amazon too. Walmart just has 3rd party sellers that other store don't offer - so Walmart is getting more of my online orders lately.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  I've bought endless stuff from Amazon, and only once got a damaged package (it was inadequately packed, the package wasn't abused). I'm not denying your experience, just that mine is positive.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Ironically by far the biggest issue I’ve had with Amazon shipping is with books, specifically hardbacks with dust covers. They love to just throw them loose in a too-big box. Annoying when it’s a new release. Infuriating when it’s a 50 year old, long out of print book.

thaumasiotes 4y ago

> Amazon delivery just throwing things on the ground and damaging them My experience with the delivery people has been fine. But Amazon itself keeps wrapping books that I order in bubble-padded manila envelopes that are too tight. This causes obvious damage to the corners of the book. I have repeatedly complained to them about this, and their response is "we have no way to control what packaging is used on any shipment". They used to ship things in boxes. They should go back to that.

kypro 4y ago

It's interesting you say this because for some time people in my family were using Amazon's excellent customer service to make money by fraudulently lying about misdeliveries and product conditions. From what they told me customer services reps at Amazon basically ask no questions (unlike other stores) and would happily ship you multiple high-value items. Apparently you'd have to be strategical to not make it look too suspicious, but if you can get serval households involved you could get a few new phones for free over the course of a year. This was for higher value items though, and maybe Amazon's customer service / returns policy is different in the UK, but I'm genuinely surprised that you avoid Amazon for returns because from what I understand they're far more likely to accept a return than other retailers. I think I probably have a biased perspective because of my background, but 99% of the time when I hear about someone returning stuff they're doing it fraudulently. That cost is then passed on to people like myself who basically refuse to return anything unless I'm sure I'm 100% not at fault so in general I wish companies didn't do returns outside of exceptional circumstances. Also working for a phone insurance company and a retailer with a relaxed returns policy made me appreciate the insane level of fraud which has to be financed by honest consumers. But on the topic of in-store returns, one of the only times I've ever returned anything was a pair of £60 shoes which tore in the first week of normal use. I went to the store I brought it from and explained they tore and would like a replacement. The staff were extremely rude and tried to blame me which I found very uncomfortable. They then said they'd have to ship it to some department to assess if it can be repaired or replaced. A couple of weeks later I got a call saying it was decided I was at fault, so no replacement or refund would be issued and that I could come collect my shoes from the store. The store was about 30 minutes away from my house and I had to pay for parking, so this was all extremely inconvenient. Maybe it's just because I have social anxiety, but I'll take cheerful chatbot over having to deal with a rude person instore any day of the week. In fact, it's why I use Amazon. Their customer support has always been great for me.

RRRA 4y ago
I think on one side Amazon started punishing those who abused the return policy repeatedly and, on the other one, the chat support has become a shit show with people not being able to help and being just as bad as chatbots. I've personally been sent a single elastic band for hairs instead of 1 TB SSD, twice, and had to explain to them that shipping it back didn't make sense for either of us and eventually got what I needed them to understand, but only after wasting over an hour talking to some clown service who isn't allowed to use proof or their breaks. And that's just how things have been going in the last year, worst and worst...

andirk 4y ago

Amazon has officially turned heel and now everyone still uses them but at least they realize it often sucks. With so many other options I don't see why people use them if another option exists. Here's a video of horrible customer service that's better than Amazon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECZQ7qzGbUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECZQ7qzGbUY .