4 ms·
I’m a dude and I’d love to stay at home and tinker with my comp sci pet projects along with doing the chores. I see the controversy, but don’t see anything inhe
by endisneigh 4y ago
I’m a dude and I’d love to stay at home and tinker with my comp sci pet projects along with doing the chores. I see the controversy, but don’t see anything inherently wrong with staying at home.
- woodruffw 4y agoI don’t think “staying at home is bad” is the message anybody is sending. If people want to be stay at home spouses, that’s fine. The points of contention are finer: that the “tradwife” phenomenon is syncretic and ahistorical, and that it’s (in part) a recruitment mechanism for reactionary politics.
- blueflow 4y agoIf its a AMAB instead of AFAB going tradwife, its progressive instead of reactionary. Clown world.
- 0ct4via 4y agoNo, it's still not progressive. There's a difference between accepting trans people as valid. and pushing some 50's-era rhetoric of feminism being subservient slavery to the man of the house. Interesting how the OP is about the whole "tradwife" ideology which is damaging for women[1] and feminism[2], but you turn it into a trans-vs.-cis argument, for no reason whatsoever. The only "clown world" is the one where you think those two entirely disparate topics are comparable. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/jan/27/tradwives-new-trend-submissive-women-dark-heart-history https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/jan/27/tradwives-ne... [2] https://mashable.com/article/tradwife-feminism-tiktok https://mashable.com/article/tradwife-feminism-tiktok
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- woodruffw 4y agoI didn’t say the GP was either. The observation is solely that doing traditional things doesn’t make you part of this “trad” sphere, which is largely syncretic in terms of what it actually considers traditional.
- qchris 4y agoIn case anyone else is wondering, the term "syncretic" can be defined as "combining or bringing together different philosophical, religious, or cultural principles and practices." [1] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/syncretic https://www.dictionary.com/browse/syncretic
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- dragonwriter 4y agoBeing a tradwife (whether AMAB or AFAB) is neither progressive nor reactionary. Neither is being trans. Advocating being a tradwife as an ideal, deviation from which in others should be viewed as inferior, is reactionary in and of itself, even if the person taking the position also has progressive views on other issues.
- mech765 4y agoCan you show me examples of it being recruitment mechanism for reactionary politics?
- woodruffw 4y agoThe article goes into sufficient detail on that point!
- endisneigh 4y agoDoes it? The article suffers from cherry picking and logical fallacies. For example the article makes it seem like tradwive sentiment is problematic because it shares some views with the far right. Even if that’s true, which it isn’t inherently, it’s not enough to deem trad wife behavior problematic. Fundamentally, modern feminism is about women being able to choose. Obviously such freedom can be used to choose to do or share “problematic” things or views, respectively.
- watwut 4y agoTradwufe is term used literally only in right wing manosphere. It is not term used by stay at home women in general. It is not a term used by left wing people. I have seen that term used only in reactionary circles and in bdsm circles (clumsily in the latter). And the focus was very much on male leadership and authority, male right to punish a women and expectation of submission. It was not about homemaking itself absent male dominance.
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- googlryas 4y agoLike any attempt at re-creation of the non-experienced, it is just an exercise in stereotyping.
- newaccount2021 4y ago[dead]
- mantas 4y agoDo they claim to be historically correct remake? Article says otherwise: >> And she writes that a tradwife doesn't want to go back to the 1950s, but "she simply likes that time because it was the last time her occupation was celebrated in mainstream media."
- woodruffw 4y agoThey don’t need to make a claim to historicity in order for me to remark on their ahistoricity. If they don’t claim historical accuracy, then I’m in agreement with them on that point! One then wonders what “traditional” refers to, of course.
- mantas 4y agoI guess all sides get what „traditional“ refers to. Just like „non-traditional“. While I'd say nowadays such punk wifes technically are non-traditional...
- dragonwriter 4y ago> One then wonders what “traditional” refers to, of course The “tradition” of aspiring to 1950s commercially constructed media images of the lily white, Protestant, working-class but with middle-class wealth, American culture [0], to which modern reactionary white resentment politcs aspires and for which it blames everything not White, not evangelical/fundamentalist, and not similarly reactionary for denying the White working class from being able to fully enjoy the way they did in the 1950s... fictional mass media presentations. [0] ironically, designed specifically to drive consumerism and extract wealth from the White working class.
- zozbot234 4y ago> it’s (in part) a recruitment mechanism for reactionary politics. Only because "progressive" politics has forced it into that role. There's nothing inherently wrong or problematic with a stay-at-home lifestyle if that's what you prefer and you can afford it.
- woodruffw 4y ago“Look at what you made me do” is not a generally convincing argumentative structure. There’s no particular reason why doing traditional things means you also need to dress yourself in reactionary politics. Besides, I think if you actually went out and sampled the world, you would find plenty of stay-at-home progressives.
- rubicon33 4y agoIs it possible the behaviors and "ways of life" are inherently political?
- sjohnson91 4y agoInterracial marriage was illegal in the 1950s because racists saw the existence of and normalization of black people in white society as a political statement and an attack on their way of life. It is the same reason why interracial kissing in movies was considered taboo back then.
- 0ct4via 4y agoThere's a massive difference between having the choice (and freedom) to stay at home -- or not -- as you wish, and pushing a movement which subjugates and flies in the face[1] of the very feminism[2] that gave women that choice to begin with. [1] https://mashable.com/article/tradwife-feminism-tiktok https://mashable.com/article/tradwife-feminism-tiktok [2] https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/the-problem-with-the-tradwife-feminist-dichotomy https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/the-problem-with-the-tradw...
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- ohCh6zos 4y agoWhy is it bad if it pulls people to the reactionary? We might as well say the glamorization of cosmopolitanism is a recruiting tool for neoliberalism.
- woodruffw 4y agoThe claim is predicated on the mutual understanding that being a white nationalist is bad. If you lack that mutual understanding, there are bigger problems at hand!
- ohCh6zos 4y agoThere is no way to be reactionary without being a white nationalist and the two are interchangeable but you chose one instead of the other for some reason?
- b800h 4y agoWhoah there: Reactionary != White Nationalist
- woodruffw 4y agoSure. You can substitute “white nationalist” for “any kind of reactionary, including white nationalist” in my previous comment, if you find that more palatable.
- b800h 4y ago" opposed to political or social change * a reactionary government * reactionary politics" That's about half of the people in most countries, so your argument just ends up as a sort of statement of your political beliefs. There are more pejorative uses of the term; I guess we just end up in a semantic debate.
- dragonwriter 4y ago> Reactionary != White Nationalist There are certainly places in the world where there are significant local reactionary ideologies that are not White Nationalist, but the US is not among them.
- klyrs 4y agoNah, there's nothing wrong with staying at home. And, subservience is a kink, we don't shame those, right? The problem is when people would force this norm on others (you, dude, are not allowed to stay at home in this arrangement; my marriage would be illegal and I wouldn't be allowed to vote). Thankfully, it's pretty fringe. But it's always a little spooky to read about that side of my family in the news. The fringe is growing, and they're coming after my civil liberties.
- mantas 4y agoSo far it's vice versa. My wife is staying at home with our 3 y/o. It's unbelievable how many people try to push her back into workforce. Especially other women. It feels like women no longer has the right to choose.
- pfortuny 4y agoAs if your wife did not work… That is what they think (“what, so you have no job?”).
- mantas 4y agoYes. Somehow same stuff becomes a proper work if we hired a nanny. I guess „work“ depends on generating GDP for many people. Sort of like me cooking dinner is not work, yet cook at a restaurant is working.
- orwin 4y ago> I guess „work“ depends on generating GDP for many people Exactly. If a city council hire a gardener, buy his tools and pay him 40k/yr, the nominal GDP will be 40k (+ the tool's prices for the first year and their maintenance costs). If the city council pay a company 80k/yr to take care of the same, they will hire a gardener 40k, buy tools, and the GDP will be 120k/yr (+ tools prices etc). Even though the production was the same. If you wife worked and you had to pay a nanny, the GDP of your country would rise more than if the nanny was formed to take on your wife job.
- zozbot234 4y agoWFH is the new "stay at home".