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Musk getting very political is going to have an impact on people who drive EV's for reasons that may be somewhat political, and politically opposed to where he'

by davidw 4y ago

Musk getting very political is going to have an impact on people who drive EV's for reasons that may be somewhat political, and politically opposed to where he's going. Will his politics draw in people on the other side who were previously skeptical of EV's? I have no idea, really, about the numbers involved in either case.

QuantumGood 4y ago
Well, far on the "other side" are people who do coal running (black exhaust) and ICEing (blocking EV charging spots). So peer pressure (a very big thing at the extremes) has moved closer to the center, so that's one limiting factor.
- adolph 4y ago
  Is "coal running" a non-US term? Rolling coal is the practice of modifying a diesel engine to emit large amounts of black or grey sooty exhaust fumes—diesel fuel that has not undergone complete combustion. It is a predominantly North American phenomenon (more specifically in the United States and Canada), despite being illegal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
- burnished 4y ago
  I guess calling the tow company is very effective at curbing the second behavior. I suspect peer pressure will reduce how commonplace it is over the coming years - I’m stretching the meaning of peer pressure here, but the risk reward is all out of whack in that your reward is an irritating but minor stunt and your risk is discovering your car is no longer where you left it.
smt88 4y ago
I doubt the effect of his politics is huge. Most people are totally unplugged from politics, and a lot of his buyers were Republicans anyway. Even the progressive people who hate him may still buy the cars because people don't often act on their beliefs. I suspect the following have had bigger effects on their sales: - Tesla being at the bottom of quality rankings (and lots of evidence of major quality issues) - increasing numbers of fantastic EVs sold by other companies at all price points - bad PR related to "FSD" and "Autopilot" - higher interest rates preventing financially irresponsible people from buying cars for status
- bcrosby95 4y ago
  Maybe before the Twitter fiasco. But after? I know about a dozen soccer moms with kids in elementary school and they're all tuned into Elon's antics.
- binarycrusader 4y ago
  I question the assertion that a typical Tesla customer is “totally unplugged from politics”. Why should I believe that the relatively small percentage of people that can afford a Tesla are also not at least politically influenced in their purchasing decisions?
  - peterangular 4y ago
    Yeah - agree on this. In my anecdotal experience, Tesla owners typically are educated professionals who are well established in their career and/or finances. They're also 90% homeowners because of the charging logistics (charger in garage). Unsurprisingly, these people are also typically invested into politics.
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    Exactly. Your typical luxury EV buyer is not unplugged from politics.
- foobarian 4y ago
  Our Ford Escape is nearing the end of its useful life, and we are looking into an EV to replace it. Tesla Y is not going to be it, because it's small and expensive, not because of politics. I think a lot of people are in a similar boat, and if a cheaper EV of a similar form factor showed up it would see a ton of demand.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    The Chevy EV SUVs that are coming out next year seem very compelling in terms of price and range. We just replaced my wife's RAV4 with an EV, and we went with the ID.4. You'd probably be happy with that coming from an Escape, though it's still on the pricey side.
VirusNewbie 4y ago
Well Tesla’s next big product is allegedly a giant pickup truck.
- esotericimpl 4y ago
  [dead]
- Whinner 4y ago
  I wonder which will come out first, the Roadster or the Cyber truck
  - hef19898 4y ago
    I bet their robot beats both, the roadster and cyber truck. Spandex costumes are cheaper and already available everywhere.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  I'm in Houston, where pickups reign supreme. I don't know a single pickup truck driver considering the Cybertruck, and even among those who aren't pro-EV, they are warming to the idea of the F-150 Lightning. Pickup truck drivers tend to be very loyal to their chose brand.
redox99 4y ago
I think this is vastly overblown. Your average Joe barely knows who Elon Musk is. Unlike most of us here, most people aren't up to date on whatever X individual tweeted or said. Edit: Downvoted for giving my opinion, stay classy HN.
- fathyb 4y ago
  I'd argue the majority of Tesla owners are aware of who he is.
  - redox99 4y ago
    If Tesla were to only keep the hardcore customer base it would massively fail. Their goal is to be the most popular brand. In that case, the hardcore user base becomes only a small percentage.
- binarycrusader 4y ago
  Can the average Joe afford a Tesla? If they can, are they really average? Can you clarify or should I just assume that I shall be downvoted into oblivion for asking?
  - ricardobeat 4y ago
    The parent comment said this is vastly overblown, because 'average people' don't know who Musk is. If 'average people' won't buy a Tesla, then this line of reasoning is moot?
    - binarycrusader 4y ago
      If we’re going to make “average Joe” arguments then I’d like to see why someone believes that someone that can afford a Tesla is average given median income distribution in almost any country.
    - ivalm 4y ago
      That parent implied average people affect Tesla revenue, so asking if they can afford the car is very relevant. Only opinions of potential buyers actually matters.
kweinber 4y ago
We were about to be a two Tesla house this year and now there is 0% chance we’ll be that after the latest shenanigans. Although my car is well made, I’m a little embarrassed to drive it around now.
- globalreset 4y ago
  [flagged]
- brink 4y ago
  > the latest shenanigans Which shenanigans are you referring to?
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    Everything Elon has done on Twitter over the past couple months. My mom is in the same situation; she was considering a Tesla but now won't be caught dead in one.
    - LarryMullins 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - jfk13 4y ago
        I don't think that follows at all. Twitter is quite unimportant to me: I don't tweet, and very rarely look at anyone else's tweets either. Yet I'm fairly aware of Musk's behavior during and since the takeover, and while I admit I already had a somewhat negative view of him thanks to some earlier episodes, the Twitter saga has well and truly poisoned his personal brand (in my view).
        LarryMullins 4y ago
        Well I responded to somebody who was evidently fine with Musk until the twitter shit.
nobodyandproud 4y ago
I don’t care about Elon’s erratic politics, but I have no desire to be a perpetual beta tester. I like my cars boring and reliable.
LarryMullins 4y ago
> Will his politics draw in people on the other side who were previously skeptical of EV's? Not a snowball's chance in hell. The hangup most people have with EVs is the price and the uncertainty that the car would sustain their lifestyle (which is particularly a concern for people living outside of cities.) It was never "EV car execs are insufficiently conservative."
- kodah 4y ago
  I agree. I had a hybrid, ended up buying a Tacoma with plans to buy an EV in the future when there's more value per dollar in them. I'll probably continue to own both as I have use for a truck. There's a lot of unanswered questions about what to do with aging batteries, towing capacity is awful, and road trips in EVs are hairy. I've always viewed them as a rich city person's luxury toy.
ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
Nobody likes dicks. pg wrote about it here http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html Elon became a dick. Maybe he was always one, maybe he became one. Punching down makes you a dick and he has been doing it again and again. Claiming autism will not save him.
- mlindner 4y ago
  The only punching down happening is the media campaign against the man. He's still solidly for saving the planet and that hasn't changed. He just sees that there's now additional existential risks that are looking to prevent him from doing that coming from the political side because they're gaining control of the means of communication. This is his attempt to fight back against such forces that are much larger than himself.
  - abenga 4y ago
    I wonder how aligning with the conservative wing of global politics who are so aggressively against the climate change mitigation agenda shows he is "solidly for saving the planet".
    - mlindner 4y ago
      That viewpoint is dying out in the conservative wings of global politics, it's still there, but it's not nearly as front and center, and the few times such views have been expressed to Elon from said conservatives, he's countered them. You don't have to agree with everything someone says to still agree with many things.
newZWhoDis 4y ago
Elon’s Twitter posts have zero impact on anything related to the car. The people allowing that to shape their purchasing decisions are underdeveloped emotional children. Adults buy a vehicle based on specs, price, build quality, and style.
- LarryMullins 4y ago
  > and style. Therein lies the rub, style is not such a rational quantitative and empirical metric; it's "emotional". The brand has become less stylish because the man who owns it is becoming very unpopular.
- vgt 4y ago
  Tesla's ICP are highly educated affluent liberals who believe in climate change, vaccines, women's rights, lgbt rights, and so on. They buy expensive EVs to make a statement and contribute to green economy. Musk is very quickly alienating these people. Imagine if Trump sold cars. And you continue your toxic language in virtually every musk related thread.
- travisporter 4y ago
  I think this is true for the majority of working class people, but my feeling, just from talking to others is that when you're in the market for a Tesla you have the money to be a bit more choosy and start to care about stuff. Musk is inexorably linked to Tesla. I know two people who have backed out of a Model Y purchase last month.
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  I care deeply about people in categorizes Musk cruelly mocks. I don't care what my neighbors think of my sense of style. Even if you pursue style that's no guarantee you'll succeed. there's a reason there's a stereotype of balding middle aged men buying fancy cars to compensate for perceived inadequacy.
- l33tman 4y ago
  That does not follow. I was in the market for an EV and considered a Tesla and now I just get a bad feeling when I see one. I have many friends who think the same and it's 100% to do with Musk, as I associated him with the brand as do a lot of other customers. It's of course illogical, but humans are very illogical..
daveguy 4y ago
Hard to tell whether the FSD debacle is more or less of an influence than the politics. At first there was all kinds of video showing Tesla avoiding accidents. Now all the videos seem to be about how careful you have to be to avoid plowing into a pedestrian or a concrete planter. Or how poor the auto-parking is compared to electronic vehicles from other manufacturers. Tesla's software features have gotten objectively bad.
elif 4y ago
From what I can tell as a Tesla owner that responds to a lot of Tesla Internet comments, teslas appeal historically has actually been broad politically. The biggest limiting factor of appeal is price, with a lot of people either perceiving the vehicles as expensive for their value or just being hopelessly priced out of luxury car prices generally. From that perspective, people dig into anecdotes about repair costs, motor/battery replacement, electricity costs, cold weather, etc to self-justify. I don't see a lot of ideology-based resistance or support for that matter.
klroberts 4y ago
He really didn't change that much. The "left" did not have a problem with his tweets or Tesla autopilot failures before he took over Twitter. Only when he threatened their censorship and their incomes, which are largely based on creating narratives and inventing new social justice causes, the "left" started to lash out. I do think the TSLA related issues have little to do with the backlash and more with various economic fundamentals.
rvz 4y ago
Only the techies here and the Tesla stock bag-holders who bought at the top of the bubble care about Musk's political leanings. Tesla has been doing just fine despite the competitors catching up which I already expected to happen as the stock was priced in years ago due to the hype. [0] This comment sounds like a overreaction due to Musk taking over Twitter. Generally, people couldn't care less and are still buying and driving Teslas just like how many people still choose to drive Volkswagons despite the founder of the German Labour Front, Adolf Hitler being the founder. Little to no one cares about the political stances other than the techies and bag-holders here as the cars are fine. Anything that is worth the criticism would be the safety of the FSD system which is a total scam that is rightfully under investigation and puts the lives of drivers on the road at risk. Thankfully, at least it is a optional system. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27966105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27966105
mlindner 4y ago
There's an entire half of the population that's on the other side of the matter that will now be similarly interested in buying for the same reasons that the other side is now against buying. However most don't and won't care.
seanmcdirmid 4y ago
Very few people are buying EVs for political reasons. It’s just a dumb way to make a political statement.
TradingPlaces 4y ago
Everyone wants this to be about politics, but that elides the fact that he looks like an utter clown every day to anyone who understands software, social media, or finance.

by davidw 4y ago

QuantumGood 4y ago

Well, far on the "other side" are people who do coal running (black exhaust) and ICEing (blocking EV charging spots). So peer pressure (a very big thing at the extremes) has moved closer to the center, so that's one limiting factor.

adolph 4y ago
Is "coal running" a non-US term? Rolling coal is the practice of modifying a diesel engine to emit large amounts of black or grey sooty exhaust fumes—diesel fuel that has not undergone complete combustion. It is a predominantly North American phenomenon (more specifically in the United States and Canada), despite being illegal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_coal
burnished 4y ago
I guess calling the tow company is very effective at curbing the second behavior. I suspect peer pressure will reduce how commonplace it is over the coming years - I’m stretching the meaning of peer pressure here, but the risk reward is all out of whack in that your reward is an irritating but minor stunt and your risk is discovering your car is no longer where you left it.

smt88 4y ago

I doubt the effect of his politics is huge. Most people are totally unplugged from politics, and a lot of his buyers were Republicans anyway. Even the progressive people who hate him may still buy the cars because people don't often act on their beliefs. I suspect the following have had bigger effects on their sales: - Tesla being at the bottom of quality rankings (and lots of evidence of major quality issues) - increasing numbers of fantastic EVs sold by other companies at all price points - bad PR related to "FSD" and "Autopilot" - higher interest rates preventing financially irresponsible people from buying cars for status

bcrosby95 4y ago
Maybe before the Twitter fiasco. But after? I know about a dozen soccer moms with kids in elementary school and they're all tuned into Elon's antics.
binarycrusader 4y ago
I question the assertion that a typical Tesla customer is “totally unplugged from politics”. Why should I believe that the relatively small percentage of people that can afford a Tesla are also not at least politically influenced in their purchasing decisions?
- peterangular 4y ago
  Yeah - agree on this. In my anecdotal experience, Tesla owners typically are educated professionals who are well established in their career and/or finances. They're also 90% homeowners because of the charging logistics (charger in garage). Unsurprisingly, these people are also typically invested into politics.
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  Exactly. Your typical luxury EV buyer is not unplugged from politics.
foobarian 4y ago
Our Ford Escape is nearing the end of its useful life, and we are looking into an EV to replace it. Tesla Y is not going to be it, because it's small and expensive, not because of politics. I think a lot of people are in a similar boat, and if a cheaper EV of a similar form factor showed up it would see a ton of demand.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  The Chevy EV SUVs that are coming out next year seem very compelling in terms of price and range. We just replaced my wife's RAV4 with an EV, and we went with the ID.4. You'd probably be happy with that coming from an Escape, though it's still on the pricey side.

VirusNewbie 4y ago

Well Tesla’s next big product is allegedly a giant pickup truck.

esotericimpl 4y ago
[dead]
Whinner 4y ago
I wonder which will come out first, the Roadster or the Cyber truck
- hef19898 4y ago
  I bet their robot beats both, the roadster and cyber truck. Spandex costumes are cheaper and already available everywhere.
bdcravens 4y ago
I'm in Houston, where pickups reign supreme. I don't know a single pickup truck driver considering the Cybertruck, and even among those who aren't pro-EV, they are warming to the idea of the F-150 Lightning. Pickup truck drivers tend to be very loyal to their chose brand.

redox99 4y ago

I think this is vastly overblown. Your average Joe barely knows who Elon Musk is. Unlike most of us here, most people aren't up to date on whatever X individual tweeted or said. Edit: Downvoted for giving my opinion, stay classy HN.

fathyb 4y ago
I'd argue the majority of Tesla owners are aware of who he is.
- redox99 4y ago
  If Tesla were to only keep the hardcore customer base it would massively fail. Their goal is to be the most popular brand. In that case, the hardcore user base becomes only a small percentage.
binarycrusader 4y ago
Can the average Joe afford a Tesla? If they can, are they really average? Can you clarify or should I just assume that I shall be downvoted into oblivion for asking?
- ricardobeat 4y ago
  The parent comment said this is vastly overblown, because 'average people' don't know who Musk is. If 'average people' won't buy a Tesla, then this line of reasoning is moot?
  - binarycrusader 4y ago
    If we’re going to make “average Joe” arguments then I’d like to see why someone believes that someone that can afford a Tesla is average given median income distribution in almost any country.
  - ivalm 4y ago
    That parent implied average people affect Tesla revenue, so asking if they can afford the car is very relevant. Only opinions of potential buyers actually matters.

kweinber 4y ago

We were about to be a two Tesla house this year and now there is 0% chance we’ll be that after the latest shenanigans. Although my car is well made, I’m a little embarrassed to drive it around now.

globalreset 4y ago
[flagged]
brink 4y ago
> the latest shenanigans Which shenanigans are you referring to?
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  Everything Elon has done on Twitter over the past couple months. My mom is in the same situation; she was considering a Tesla but now won't be caught dead in one.
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - jfk13 4y ago
      I don't think that follows at all. Twitter is quite unimportant to me: I don't tweet, and very rarely look at anyone else's tweets either. Yet I'm fairly aware of Musk's behavior during and since the takeover, and while I admit I already had a somewhat negative view of him thanks to some earlier episodes, the Twitter saga has well and truly poisoned his personal brand (in my view).
      - LarryMullins 4y ago
        Well I responded to somebody who was evidently fine with Musk until the twitter shit.

nobodyandproud 4y ago

I don’t care about Elon’s erratic politics, but I have no desire to be a perpetual beta tester. I like my cars boring and reliable.

LarryMullins 4y ago

> Will his politics draw in people on the other side who were previously skeptical of EV's? Not a snowball's chance in hell. The hangup most people have with EVs is the price and the uncertainty that the car would sustain their lifestyle (which is particularly a concern for people living outside of cities.) It was never "EV car execs are insufficiently conservative."

kodah 4y ago
I agree. I had a hybrid, ended up buying a Tacoma with plans to buy an EV in the future when there's more value per dollar in them. I'll probably continue to own both as I have use for a truck. There's a lot of unanswered questions about what to do with aging batteries, towing capacity is awful, and road trips in EVs are hairy. I've always viewed them as a rich city person's luxury toy.

ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago

Nobody likes dicks. pg wrote about it here http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html Elon became a dick. Maybe he was always one, maybe he became one. Punching down makes you a dick and he has been doing it again and again. Claiming autism will not save him.

mlindner 4y ago
The only punching down happening is the media campaign against the man. He's still solidly for saving the planet and that hasn't changed. He just sees that there's now additional existential risks that are looking to prevent him from doing that coming from the political side because they're gaining control of the means of communication. This is his attempt to fight back against such forces that are much larger than himself.
- abenga 4y ago
  I wonder how aligning with the conservative wing of global politics who are so aggressively against the climate change mitigation agenda shows he is "solidly for saving the planet".
  - mlindner 4y ago
    That viewpoint is dying out in the conservative wings of global politics, it's still there, but it's not nearly as front and center, and the few times such views have been expressed to Elon from said conservatives, he's countered them. You don't have to agree with everything someone says to still agree with many things.

newZWhoDis 4y ago

Elon’s Twitter posts have zero impact on anything related to the car. The people allowing that to shape their purchasing decisions are underdeveloped emotional children. Adults buy a vehicle based on specs, price, build quality, and style.

LarryMullins 4y ago
> and style. Therein lies the rub, style is not such a rational quantitative and empirical metric; it's "emotional". The brand has become less stylish because the man who owns it is becoming very unpopular.
vgt 4y ago
Tesla's ICP are highly educated affluent liberals who believe in climate change, vaccines, women's rights, lgbt rights, and so on. They buy expensive EVs to make a statement and contribute to green economy. Musk is very quickly alienating these people. Imagine if Trump sold cars. And you continue your toxic language in virtually every musk related thread.
travisporter 4y ago
I think this is true for the majority of working class people, but my feeling, just from talking to others is that when you're in the market for a Tesla you have the money to be a bit more choosy and start to care about stuff. Musk is inexorably linked to Tesla. I know two people who have backed out of a Model Y purchase last month.
iudqnolq 4y ago
I care deeply about people in categorizes Musk cruelly mocks. I don't care what my neighbors think of my sense of style. Even if you pursue style that's no guarantee you'll succeed. there's a reason there's a stereotype of balding middle aged men buying fancy cars to compensate for perceived inadequacy.
l33tman 4y ago
That does not follow. I was in the market for an EV and considered a Tesla and now I just get a bad feeling when I see one. I have many friends who think the same and it's 100% to do with Musk, as I associated him with the brand as do a lot of other customers. It's of course illogical, but humans are very illogical..

daveguy 4y ago

Hard to tell whether the FSD debacle is more or less of an influence than the politics. At first there was all kinds of video showing Tesla avoiding accidents. Now all the videos seem to be about how careful you have to be to avoid plowing into a pedestrian or a concrete planter. Or how poor the auto-parking is compared to electronic vehicles from other manufacturers. Tesla's software features have gotten objectively bad.

elif 4y ago

From what I can tell as a Tesla owner that responds to a lot of Tesla Internet comments, teslas appeal historically has actually been broad politically. The biggest limiting factor of appeal is price, with a lot of people either perceiving the vehicles as expensive for their value or just being hopelessly priced out of luxury car prices generally. From that perspective, people dig into anecdotes about repair costs, motor/battery replacement, electricity costs, cold weather, etc to self-justify. I don't see a lot of ideology-based resistance or support for that matter.

klroberts 4y ago

He really didn't change that much. The "left" did not have a problem with his tweets or Tesla autopilot failures before he took over Twitter. Only when he threatened their censorship and their incomes, which are largely based on creating narratives and inventing new social justice causes, the "left" started to lash out. I do think the TSLA related issues have little to do with the backlash and more with various economic fundamentals.

rvz 4y ago

Only the techies here and the Tesla stock bag-holders who bought at the top of the bubble care about Musk's political leanings. Tesla has been doing just fine despite the competitors catching up which I already expected to happen as the stock was priced in years ago due to the hype. [0] This comment sounds like a overreaction due to Musk taking over Twitter. Generally, people couldn't care less and are still buying and driving Teslas just like how many people still choose to drive Volkswagons despite the founder of the German Labour Front, Adolf Hitler being the founder. Little to no one cares about the political stances other than the techies and bag-holders here as the cars are fine. Anything that is worth the criticism would be the safety of the FSD system which is a total scam that is rightfully under investigation and puts the lives of drivers on the road at risk. Thankfully, at least it is a optional system. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27966105 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27966105

mlindner 4y ago

There's an entire half of the population that's on the other side of the matter that will now be similarly interested in buying for the same reasons that the other side is now against buying. However most don't and won't care.

seanmcdirmid 4y ago

Very few people are buying EVs for political reasons. It’s just a dumb way to make a political statement.

TradingPlaces 4y ago

Everyone wants this to be about politics, but that elides the fact that he looks like an utter clown every day to anyone who understands software, social media, or finance.