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You know, for a while this seemed like a non-issue for me. I was naive. I just told myself "a company wouldn't do something like that, that's not how this stuff

You know, for a while this seemed like a non-issue for me. I was naive. I just told myself "a company wouldn't do something like that, that's not how this stuff works". Boy was I wrong. 15 years ago I had nothing but glowing admiration for these large tech companies, now I avoid them at all costs. I pay for Kagi instead of using Google for free. I deleted my amazon account, and now just shop at normal retailers. It's not like the price is much different. I sold my Kindle, and just buy my books from Barnes and Noble. Oh, Netflix only has season 2 of Mr. Robot? Guess I'll just pirate that. I got rid of my Nest cameras (Google COMPLETELY ruined that product) and use Blue Iris locally now. Everything these companies touch turns to poison. Unfortunately, for now I'm still stuck with google / apple maps and Gmail.

jrib 4y ago
I dropped gmail for fastmail when google originally threatened to drop the grandfathered g-suite plans. Has worked great for me.
- CapmCrackaWaka 4y ago
  Ugh I tried to get off of Gmail and went to Kolab. That did not work for me at all. The formatting abilities were severely lacking. Maybe I'll try again since I've spent so much energy on this rant at this point.
  - r3trohack3r 4y ago
    I successfully migrated to ProtonMail using a strangulation pattern. I set up a forwarding policy from GMail -> Protonmail. Whenever I would receive a forwarded email, Id go to the sender and update my email address. After about 6 months the only email coming from my Gmail account was spam. Then I turned off my forwarding policy and noticed something: I don't really get spam anymore. I don't know what it is about Gmail but it receives several of orders of magnitude more spam than any of my other email accounts. To drive that point home, to crack down on spam, I setup my own domain on protonmail and configured a catch-all. Now everyone gets their own email address (like homedepot@mydomain.com). It lets me reverse track who is sharing my personal info with who for marketing purposes. Turns out: in the 5 years I've been using Protonmail I've had two cases of someone sharing my email address. I had assumed all my spam was from people sharing my email - turns out it was just a Gmail problem. If your experience ends up being the same as mine, the time you save not dealing with spam on Gmail will cover your migration costs.
    - citiguy 4y ago
      This is a great idea. I've been wanting to move off gmail for years, I'll try this. Thank you.
    - Multicomp 4y ago
      I can confirm what this poster said about their business emails not actually getting shared around, but that spam just all goes to gmail... I did a very similar setup and got similar results, but I'm using FastMail, though I'm sure protonmail and mailbox.org would work for this, had I chosen them as well.
    - uoaei 4y ago
      Sending decrypted information over an encrypted line makes it relatively much easier to reverse-engineer the private key. If Google has, say, the contents of an email via GMail, and surveillance over the transmission line that carries the encrypted version of that, they would have not much trouble cracking your Protonmail key. It's unlikely that they would gain access to Protonmail's secure servers, but if they can surveil traffic going into and out of Protonmail's servers, they can decrypt the messages they know the keys for. They own more than a few installations and high-throughput (e.g. undersea) cables and it doesn't seem far-fetched to assume they have built systems for extracting information from the massive bitstreams, especially considering all we know about NSA surveillance programs.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  fastmail is great. wish they had a platform for docs and sheets
- SanjayMehta 4y ago
  I moved to Zoho from Gmail. https://www.theverge.com/2014/12/28/7458159/encryption-standards-the-nsa-cant-crack-pgp-tor-otr-snowden https://www.theverge.com/2014/12/28/7458159/encryption-stand...
- raffraffraff 4y ago
  I went to privateemail + k9. It's been fine.
bitexploder 4y ago
The convenience is great, but I agree. Age has taught me these giant tech companies cannot be stewards of knowledge. The public library system is incredibly important, and under political attack, alas that is a separate discussion. Regardless paper books are a great equalizer. Or companies accepting and ditching DRM. Regardless I have zero moral problems removing DRM from my book libraries on Kindle, etc.
- pettycashstash2 4y ago
  It’s not just the giant companies. I had good experience with YI cameras from Kami and so I purchased about 7 of them. Suddenly they decided to go to a subscription model, and sent me an email “After years of growing, we are at the point that our systems can no longer support free 6 second video storage for all our users” I proceeded to remove the cameras and replaced them with on site NVR. After I did this I receive another email- “ WE ARE SORRY. Due to a system error, we sent you an email by mistake expressing that we will no longer support free 6 second video for the Yi/Kami Home app. Do not worry, you will still have this feature.” Too late. I also find myself moving away from subscription based types of experience whenever I can, where the company can just remove feature or content at will. I wonder if there is a name in marketing circles for this behavior.
  - CapmCrackaWaka 4y ago
    In my mind, I stay away from subscriptions if there are any physical assets or up-front costs involved. Kagi is a good example of a reasonable subscription model. Up-front costs are where companies can really screw you and take advantage of the sunk cost fallacy. That's where I got screwed by Nest. I spent $400 on their cameras, which worked great until Google bought them. After that, no more free storage, the AI automatic object detection went to absolute crap, I have constant authentication issues where the original Nest account and the Google account keep signing each other out, and now I'm stuck with these cameras.
  - j1elo 4y ago
    Hi, I also have a Kami camera, and was entertaining the idea of going off the path with maybe an alternative provider, or just a self-hosted solution. Could you let me know about your new setup? I was wondering if these cameras are locked-in with the Kami cloud vendor solution, or they use a standard protocol thus trivial to move to another provider, or just something in between those two extremes...
ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
> Unfortunately, for now I'm still stuck with google / apple maps and Gmail. Organic Maps. Migadu or Fastmail. You're not "stuck" with anything.
- password4321 4y ago
  Uh, Organic Maps has live traffic?
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    Where do you think the data for that live traffic comes from?
reset2023 4y ago
qwant is way better than google
matkoniecz 4y ago
> for now I'm still stuck with google / apple maps In many cases OSM-based solutions like Organic Maps or Mapy.cz are good enough (though for car navigation Google Maps is still clearly better).
- xigoi 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure Mapy.cz have their own proprietary data.
  - matkoniecz 4y ago
    Terrain shape model is from elsewhere, but I bet that it is SRTM. In Czech Republic they use data outside OSM, but last time I checked it was entirely/mostly data released by government of that country. Roads, buildings, hiking trails, landuse, paths shops outside Czechia are from OpenStreetMap. Can you give example of anything that is "their own proprietary data"? So far I have not noticed anything like that outside Czechia.
    - xigoi 4y ago
      In the Terms and Conditions, they list various different sources and give restrictions on what you can do with them. For example, it's illegal to make screenshots of 3D maps. https://licence.mapy.cz/?doc=mapy_pu https://licence.mapy.cz/?doc=mapy_pu
ramses0 4y ago
RMS: "Right to Read" - https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html

jrib 4y ago

I dropped gmail for fastmail when google originally threatened to drop the grandfathered g-suite plans. Has worked great for me.

CapmCrackaWaka 4y ago
Ugh I tried to get off of Gmail and went to Kolab. That did not work for me at all. The formatting abilities were severely lacking. Maybe I'll try again since I've spent so much energy on this rant at this point.
- r3trohack3r 4y ago
  I successfully migrated to ProtonMail using a strangulation pattern. I set up a forwarding policy from GMail -> Protonmail. Whenever I would receive a forwarded email, Id go to the sender and update my email address. After about 6 months the only email coming from my Gmail account was spam. Then I turned off my forwarding policy and noticed something: I don't really get spam anymore. I don't know what it is about Gmail but it receives several of orders of magnitude more spam than any of my other email accounts. To drive that point home, to crack down on spam, I setup my own domain on protonmail and configured a catch-all. Now everyone gets their own email address (like homedepot@mydomain.com). It lets me reverse track who is sharing my personal info with who for marketing purposes. Turns out: in the 5 years I've been using Protonmail I've had two cases of someone sharing my email address. I had assumed all my spam was from people sharing my email - turns out it was just a Gmail problem. If your experience ends up being the same as mine, the time you save not dealing with spam on Gmail will cover your migration costs.
  - citiguy 4y ago
    This is a great idea. I've been wanting to move off gmail for years, I'll try this. Thank you.
  - Multicomp 4y ago
    I can confirm what this poster said about their business emails not actually getting shared around, but that spam just all goes to gmail... I did a very similar setup and got similar results, but I'm using FastMail, though I'm sure protonmail and mailbox.org would work for this, had I chosen them as well.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    Sending decrypted information over an encrypted line makes it relatively much easier to reverse-engineer the private key. If Google has, say, the contents of an email via GMail, and surveillance over the transmission line that carries the encrypted version of that, they would have not much trouble cracking your Protonmail key. It's unlikely that they would gain access to Protonmail's secure servers, but if they can surveil traffic going into and out of Protonmail's servers, they can decrypt the messages they know the keys for. They own more than a few installations and high-throughput (e.g. undersea) cables and it doesn't seem far-fetched to assume they have built systems for extracting information from the massive bitstreams, especially considering all we know about NSA surveillance programs.
calvinmorrison 4y ago
fastmail is great. wish they had a platform for docs and sheets
SanjayMehta 4y ago
I moved to Zoho from Gmail. https://www.theverge.com/2014/12/28/7458159/encryption-standards-the-nsa-cant-crack-pgp-tor-otr-snowden https://www.theverge.com/2014/12/28/7458159/encryption-stand...
raffraffraff 4y ago
I went to privateemail + k9. It's been fine.

bitexploder 4y ago

The convenience is great, but I agree. Age has taught me these giant tech companies cannot be stewards of knowledge. The public library system is incredibly important, and under political attack, alas that is a separate discussion. Regardless paper books are a great equalizer. Or companies accepting and ditching DRM. Regardless I have zero moral problems removing DRM from my book libraries on Kindle, etc.

pettycashstash2 4y ago
It’s not just the giant companies. I had good experience with YI cameras from Kami and so I purchased about 7 of them. Suddenly they decided to go to a subscription model, and sent me an email “After years of growing, we are at the point that our systems can no longer support free 6 second video storage for all our users” I proceeded to remove the cameras and replaced them with on site NVR. After I did this I receive another email- “ WE ARE SORRY. Due to a system error, we sent you an email by mistake expressing that we will no longer support free 6 second video for the Yi/Kami Home app. Do not worry, you will still have this feature.” Too late. I also find myself moving away from subscription based types of experience whenever I can, where the company can just remove feature or content at will. I wonder if there is a name in marketing circles for this behavior.
- CapmCrackaWaka 4y ago
  In my mind, I stay away from subscriptions if there are any physical assets or up-front costs involved. Kagi is a good example of a reasonable subscription model. Up-front costs are where companies can really screw you and take advantage of the sunk cost fallacy. That's where I got screwed by Nest. I spent $400 on their cameras, which worked great until Google bought them. After that, no more free storage, the AI automatic object detection went to absolute crap, I have constant authentication issues where the original Nest account and the Google account keep signing each other out, and now I'm stuck with these cameras.
- j1elo 4y ago
  Hi, I also have a Kami camera, and was entertaining the idea of going off the path with maybe an alternative provider, or just a self-hosted solution. Could you let me know about your new setup? I was wondering if these cameras are locked-in with the Kami cloud vendor solution, or they use a standard protocol thus trivial to move to another provider, or just something in between those two extremes...

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago

> Unfortunately, for now I'm still stuck with google / apple maps and Gmail. Organic Maps. Migadu or Fastmail. You're not "stuck" with anything.

password4321 4y ago
Uh, Organic Maps has live traffic?
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  Where do you think the data for that live traffic comes from?

reset2023 4y ago

qwant is way better than google

matkoniecz 4y ago

> for now I'm still stuck with google / apple maps In many cases OSM-based solutions like Organic Maps or Mapy.cz are good enough (though for car navigation Google Maps is still clearly better).

xigoi 4y ago
I'm pretty sure Mapy.cz have their own proprietary data.
- matkoniecz 4y ago
  Terrain shape model is from elsewhere, but I bet that it is SRTM. In Czech Republic they use data outside OSM, but last time I checked it was entirely/mostly data released by government of that country. Roads, buildings, hiking trails, landuse, paths shops outside Czechia are from OpenStreetMap. Can you give example of anything that is "their own proprietary data"? So far I have not noticed anything like that outside Czechia.
  - xigoi 4y ago
    In the Terms and Conditions, they list various different sources and give restrictions on what you can do with them. For example, it's illegal to make screenshots of 3D maps. https://licence.mapy.cz/?doc=mapy_pu https://licence.mapy.cz/?doc=mapy_pu

ramses0 4y ago

RMS: "Right to Read" - https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html