4 ms·

Works both ways. Indians don't have a right to migrate to America or Europe.

Hizonner 4y ago
They used to call it "God's Green Earth". Did you check with God about whether anybody had the right to tell people where they could live on it?
ben_w 4y ago
I think the term "right" is misleading — all rights are granted by governments, none are natural things which would exist without governments (no matter how much my inner anarchist wishes otherwise), government can create the right for others to enter as easily as the right to vote or the right to a fair trial, and that means American and European national governments can if they wished create a right for Indians in general to do just that. They haven't, but they could.
- kelipso 4y ago
  I mean if we're going to base the rights of humans off of what their respective countries say their citizens have, then with equal strength a country can declare that it has the right to keep its citizens in its own territory.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Yup, that's a fair criticism. Also feels kinda sorta true, given origin countries can revoke passports? But I'm not confident about how any of that works in practice. Part of why I think the term "rights" is unhelpful, it comes with moral associations that makes people (me included) feel unclean when peering behind the metaphorical curtain and examining how such things function in practice.
legolas2412 4y ago
Does an Indian individual have a right to be treated equally as Icelandic individual, with respect to us immigration system? Because the system is unfairly discriminating against Indian citizens.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  How could these lotteries be made more fair to those born in the most populous countries?
  - atonse 4y ago
    From what I have witnessed, it could be made more fair by simply punishing fraud by taking away the number of applications a company can apply for, and by issuing 10 year bans to candidates found to be lying. There is so much lying about credentials and job experience in these situations. That will reduce the amount of fraudulent applications, making way for more honest (and higher quality) applicants.
- atonse 4y ago
  It isn’t unfairly discriminating. The quotas are based on population. And naturally there are going to be a higher number of immigrants from countries that have a bigger disparity in quality of life, career prospects, etc.

They used to call it "God's Green Earth". Did you check with God about whether anybody had the right to tell people where they could live on it?

ben_w 4y ago

I think the term "right" is misleading — all rights are granted by governments, none are natural things which would exist without governments (no matter how much my inner anarchist wishes otherwise), government can create the right for others to enter as easily as the right to vote or the right to a fair trial, and that means American and European national governments can if they wished create a right for Indians in general to do just that. They haven't, but they could.

kelipso 4y ago
I mean if we're going to base the rights of humans off of what their respective countries say their citizens have, then with equal strength a country can declare that it has the right to keep its citizens in its own territory.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Yup, that's a fair criticism. Also feels kinda sorta true, given origin countries can revoke passports? But I'm not confident about how any of that works in practice. Part of why I think the term "rights" is unhelpful, it comes with moral associations that makes people (me included) feel unclean when peering behind the metaphorical curtain and examining how such things function in practice.

legolas2412 4y ago

Does an Indian individual have a right to be treated equally as Icelandic individual, with respect to us immigration system? Because the system is unfairly discriminating against Indian citizens.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
How could these lotteries be made more fair to those born in the most populous countries?
- atonse 4y ago
  From what I have witnessed, it could be made more fair by simply punishing fraud by taking away the number of applications a company can apply for, and by issuing 10 year bans to candidates found to be lying. There is so much lying about credentials and job experience in these situations. That will reduce the amount of fraudulent applications, making way for more honest (and higher quality) applicants.
atonse 4y ago
It isn’t unfairly discriminating. The quotas are based on population. And naturally there are going to be a higher number of immigrants from countries that have a bigger disparity in quality of life, career prospects, etc.