8 ms·

Ventura Issues

163 points by zdw 4y ago

bombcar 4y ago
The ones I’ve noticed - once the 10g adapter just decided to imitate a DSL modem for some reason. Disabling and reenabling it fixed it (it reported 10g negotiated on Both sides the whole time). And if I edit a file in downloads and save it - finder sorts it at the top (I sort by date) but an upload file dialog in safari doesn’t see the new date
thewebcount 4y ago
Some of these may not be bugs. For example, I actually prefer this: > Mail now loses the mailbox selection when you start a search, instead changing the selection to All Mailboxes, which is rarely the scope that I want. This one isn’t new to Ventura. This happened all the time to me as far back as Big Sur: > External drives still take minutes to mount or sometimes never mount automatically. Sometimes I can manually mount them from Disk Utility. Other times I need to reboot or disconnect other drives first. The real question is, has the author opened Feedback Requests about these things? If not, don’t expect them to get fixed any time soon.
- spikeagally 4y ago
  I also prefer the new all mailbox search. The old behaviour drove me mad. It’s definitely not a bug.
- jws 4y ago
  External drives still take minutes to mount or sometimes never mount automatically. Sometimes I can manually mount them from Disk Utility. Other times I need to reboot or disconnect other drives first. I've encountered failing USB disks which appear to work fine on macOS, but suddenly operations take minutes to perform and can block operations system wide. They don't report errors, and they don't show as CPU use in any program, but everything on the system slows to a crawl when you hit sensitive spots on the disk. It's worth removing external storage devices and adding them back one by one any time you have a hanging or slow Mac to diagnose. Apple hates to scare or confuse users, but if a disk drive is taking a four orders of magnitude more time to do operations than it used to, I'd like my computer to please let me know.
- 1over137 4y ago
  >The real question is, has the author opened Feedback Requests about these things? If not, don’t expect them to get fixed any time soon. And if you do open 'Feedback Requests', don't expect them to get fixed any time soon.
  - thewebcount 4y ago
    Yeah, I’ve felt that pain, for sure. The flip side is that if you don’t open a feedback request, don’t expect it to get fixed ever. They can’t fix a bug they aren’t aware of or don’t have steps to reproduce.
- michelb 4y ago
  Some of the listed points in the article have been bugs for YEARS. They have survived major release cycles and a lot of them have Radars. Nobody wants to fix any of the thousands of bugs in MacOSX. Apple is just falling forward with every release.
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
The System Preferences redesign was a huge red flag. This OS is a Lion, no thanks.
- byteduck 4y ago
  Actually, I think 10.7 was a Lion ;)
  - akerl_ 4y ago
    I think you've missed what the parent comment is saying: that this release, to them, is akin to 10.7.
    - kmonsen 4y ago
      To be honest, it was very easy to miss what parent was saying. Your comment helps clarify though, thanks!
    - byteduck 4y ago
      I was making a joke, but I guess I forgot what site I'm on.
      - akerl_ 4y ago
        You’re on Hackernews.
- locusofself 4y ago
  I'd like to understand what "This OS is a Lion" means. Is that a commonly used phrase?
  - simonbarker87 4y ago
    My understanding is that OSX Lion was a release that changed a lot and had many bugs, looks like Ventura could be the same
mberning 4y ago
Apple is badly, badly in need of a “code red” style freeze on new features for macOS and iOS. Even very basic things which should be rock solid are not. I just had a kernel panic when copying files to an smb mount. No issue when I do the same copy mounted as nfs. Ridiculous in this era.
- userbinator 4y ago
  I just had a kernel panic when copying files to an smb mount. Apple rewrote the SMB code to make it closed-source starting with 10.12, I believe; the immediately noticeable effect was that it became far buggier.
  - awesomegoat_com 4y ago
    Hahaha, spend more money and end up with inferior result. Must have had some serious managers involved.
- BirAdam 4y ago
  Long ago, the release speed in the entire industry accelerated. I knew that quality would nose dive as a result because there was no way to develop and fully test an entire OS (even for a phone) as frequently as each is being released. All operating systems are now effectively permanently in beta.
  - rektide 4y ago
    It's not just about release speed. The whole industry is aligned towards new, towards features, towards impact. Going around making the world better doesnt rank, isnt visible work, isnt tracked or roadmaps, isnt rewarded, and frankly, it's not as fun being a 0.1X hacker tackling the gross ugly old shit, especially when the org wont say thank you either.
    - avidphantasm 4y ago
      I would pay $100 per year for macOS if it meant they would go slower and make it rock solid.
fogleman 4y ago
Ventura has serious issues with ExFAT volumes (failing to boot with them connected, Finder or other apps not showing all of the files, inability to empty the trash, etc.) I have several 2 TB external SSD's and ended up migrating them all to APFS because of Ventura. If you google "ventura exfat site:discussions.apple.com" you'll see all sorts of complaints. Pretty terrible situation.
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  Ventura has serious issues.
yborg 4y ago
Most of these frankly seem like small beer and to be expected in an early release of an OS. I also am not sure how a Git Tower issue is a Ventura problem. That said, I'm still running Monterey, having amended my practice of waiting until the after the first point release to now waiting until the 2nd to do a full version update because of Apple's tendency in recent years to introduce major bugs which are not compensated by major functionality improvements. Updating System Settings to look like iOS serves Apple's needs, not mine.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- saagarjha 4y ago
  > Most of these frankly seem like small beer and to be expected in an early release of an OS. This is not a beta OS. It’s been out for months. Having things randomly freeze because you decided to connect an external drive is not really OK. > I also am not sure how a Git Tower issue is a Ventura problem. Presumably it used to work, which means AppKit broke something.
  - userbinator 4y ago
    This is not a beta OS. It’s been out for months. Neither was it written from scratch in a few months. It inherits the effort of two decades of work on what was originally OS X.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
Can I get a word in for Screen Time / Parental Controls being completely broken for years? (One bug of many: “Internet Filtering” randomly fails open after a few hours, allowing private browsing and no filtering on child accounts.)
- AJRF 4y ago
  I've had to turn it off in Ventura. Sometimes it will just decide it's time for downtime outside of the schedule. Tried everything to fix it including turning off syncing of Screen Time settings, changing schedule, resetting all the settings, restarting computer. Nope, will still do it every few hours.
- fragmede 4y ago
  Yeah it's a shame. FWIW, I block sites by using a DNS app on my iphone (AdGuard Pro) which emulates a VPN in order to work.
- ghishadow 4y ago
  wow i thought it was only broken for me, it random block apps for me
gjsman-1000 4y ago
I still can’t get over that I can remove Apple Music, Podcasts, Stocks, and so on on iOS, but I can’t do it on my Mac without tearing the OS apart.
AJRF 4y ago
The new system settings app is painful. It freezes for up to 30 seconds at a time after I take an action. It often goes completely blank, it flickers a lot and in general it's so hard to find stuff in it - the search is bad and they have just jammed settings in places that don't make sense. I am on a 2020 MacBook Air with m1 chip, 16GB ram - wouldn't expect performance problems in the settings app, yet here we are. I also get that issue with Safari where it freezes the entire system, that happens on my work laptop which is an M1 Max with 32GB RAM
- baggy_trough 4y ago
  Agreed, the Settings app is horribly ugly now. So is About This Mac.
  - andrekandre 4y ago
    its not only ugly, its harder to use, more confusing where things are placed now...
    - KerrAvon 4y ago
      Am I the only person who could never find where anything in the old prefs app was? I started using OS X in 2001. The old prefs app also didn’t scale.
- wildrhythms 4y ago
  Seriously, what was wrong with the old tried and true System Preferences? Everything had a recognizable icon, every icon arranged in simple rows, and every icon lay before me in a single window. Now, I'm forced to scroll the pane on the left (unclear since scroll bars are invisible by default) to find the outermost setting, and then deal with nested navigation confined inside of the right pane. Also, gone are the recognizable icons, replaced with confusingly similar colored gradients and a hieroglyph icon that is unreadable because the contrast ratio terrible against the gradient. Also, the 'search' causes the entire left navigational pane to go blank and replace itself with search results, rather than 'show me the way' like it used to. Extremely disappointing! Old: https://i.imgur.com/sZY9dUw.png https://i.imgur.com/sZY9dUw.png New: https://i.imgur.com/NGj7I69.jpg https://i.imgur.com/NGj7I69.jpg
Orlan 4y ago
This OS "upgrade" has been annoying. At least I'm not the only one with issues, and I have some of the same issues listed listed here. I hadn't seen them documented elsewhere. I waited until the first point release to upgrade in hope of a seamless transition, but instead I've been keeping a list of issues. I've been meaning to do a writeup (or at lease a tweet), but haven't done so for the same reason I still haven't spent time trying to fix them. It's many small annoying things. There might be a way to fix some of them (like the generic icons for some filetypes, or my NAS not mounting at startup, or Finder constantly crashing), but so far I've decided to keep my sanity.
jviotti 4y ago
One of mine: sometimes (50% of the times?) turning on my MacBook Pro for the first time leads to the Dock using very high CPU and making switching between desktops abnormally slow. The fix is to force-kill the Dock app, and make it restart again by itself.
- saagarjha 4y ago
  Have you looked into what it is doing during that time?
- lapcat 4y ago
  I wonder if this is the same issue? https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/dock.html https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/dock.html
mattgreenrocks 4y ago
Just today I tried to look for how to switch to using the discrete GPU on my 2019 Intel MBP, but I couldn’t find a setting for it. Is it gone?
- xenospn 4y ago
  You can still do it, but it’s not exposed in the UI anymore.
  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    I don't think it was ever officially in the UI beyond "allowing" certain applications to use the dedicated GPU inside a MacBook Pro. The only reason Apple even added that was as a battery conservation concern.
- gfxgirl 4y ago
  was there ever a setting for this? I always used gSwitch or gfxCardStatus to varying degrees of success
  - mattgreenrocks 4y ago
    It was labeled "Automatic graphics switching" in past releases. It appears to be gone completely. I just confirmed it was under Battery on 12.5.1. This is a shame. The Intel GPU on the 2019 MBP is pretty anemic and it is definitely felt when programming in some editors.
barathr 4y ago
Ventura also broke DNS-over-TLS support and reliable blocking of domains using /etc/hosts. Some browsers are no longer able to use either on Ventura while other browsers do.
spritefs 4y ago
Something else that's odd is it will sometimes mix up icons in the force quit menu. But this was around prior to ventura At the same time, there's so much stuff going on in macos that there's a very wide surface area for random things like this. I wonder how many people work on it, if I had to guess it would be in the hundreds
blinkingled 4y ago
Apple on a good day does just enough to get the basics right. Beyond the basics it's a matter of luck whether something will work and continue to work reliably. The thing is even Microsoft in the post Win 10 era is reliant on insiders to test Windows releases nowadays so there's not really much competition for desktop market nor is there anything huge at stake. At this point I as a regular non-enterprise customer can't even pay for a churn free, ads free, forced apps free security updates only OS like Windows 7 - unexpectedly fast descent into sadness. (Where possible I run Linux and thankfully it has worked fine so far but some work things still require Windows or Mac.)
- jxramos 4y ago
  I always felt that mantra of Apple simplicity was a cop out for lack of desire or inability to write rich complex software at scale and not get subsumed by bugs and QA load. It is a matter of prioritization too, the non sexy stuff doesn’t sell nor lead to promotions so many fundamental things just stagnate it feels. I joke with my wife that being in the Apple ecosystem is sometimes like being married to this inconsistent and erratic spouse who oscillates between a few extremes. They bring out all this high romance show off blingy stuff that elicits high emotions and surprise and delight. But when it comes to the more mundane stuff like cleaning up and daily chores and keeping the socks and underwear off the floor they become lazy bums sleeping on the couch who can’t be bothered. They then try to make it up to you with a “hey babe check this out I can now do fancy thing xyz, see?” all the while ignoring the honeydo list of 125 things that have made no progress in the last three years. The funny thing is I’m still on the fence for determining which ratio the behaviors skew and how it all rolls up in net.
gymbeaux 4y ago
OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion was the last release of the golden years. You could argue it was actually 10.9 Mavericks, but that's the release that introduced the annoying notification every time you disconnected a USB drive. Either way, OS X 10.10 Yosemite was when shit started hitting the fan- that's when they started rewriting OS X in Swift, an Apple-designed language which is somehow WORSE than Objective-C. As a software engineer, I find all three ecosystems (macOS, Windows, Linux) far from perfect, but the only one that ALLOWS me to do all the things I want and need to do, is Linux.
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  Also, it's 2022 and Xcode is still trash
  - gghffguhvc 4y ago
    As someone who uses XCode with schemes and Android studio with flavors, I have way more issues with Android studio. Having to invalidate caches on Android studio quite frequently and delete derived files in Xcode occasionally. But with Apple Studio Ultra at least build times on both are amazing compared to a few years ago.
- ihatepython 4y ago
  10.8 is the last release before they fired Scott Forstall
  - lapcat 4y ago
    I'm not sure how that's relevant, because Forstall had been working on iPhone his last 5 years at Apple, not Mac. More relevant would be the death of Steve Jobs...
userbinator 4y ago
Those on the Windows side are just as if not more angered by Windows 11 too. The software industry has become an example of quantity over quality, features over fixes, change and novelty over stability, diversity over excellence. Instead of gradually approaching perfection as bugs are fixed over time, software gets needlessly rewritten and introduces a bunch of new bugs. Thanks to the wholly misguided focus on "developer experience", the new version is more inefficient and more complex, leading to even more bugs than the previous one. They call it "progress", but it really isn't. It's an increasingly steep decline fueled by an abundance of developers that need to be given something to do.
- DrewADesign 4y ago
  I recently switched to Windows because I need some performance-intensive windows-only software. I'm convinced that Microsoft lets marketing write the feature bullet list and then tells product managers to assign arbitrary dates to each bullet entry and use that as their project timeline. Quality is absolute garbage. Microsoft 365 Family is shockingly bad. The 6tb of storage you get for $10/mo (spread out over 6 accounts) might not actually be worth it.
  - cokeandpepsi 4y ago
    pretty much, after microsoft decided windows wasn't really critical they kind of just let random people go to town with it that's why opensource platforms are so important, general computing is kind of screwed when apple or microsoft get distracted by something shiney
- rayiner 4y ago
  It’s not even “the quantity over quality.” Early OS X point releases would get big new features like hardware accelerated compositing. What does Ventura even add? The last big new feature was APFS becoming the default back in 2017. I guess it’s better than Microsoft, where Metro/WinUI/web rewrites of core apps actually remove tons of long-standing features.
  - 4y ago
semireg 4y ago
I ignore macOS updates as a self preservation technique until something forces my hand such as buying a new computer or Xcode complaining it only runs on a particular release. Between macOS, cpu architecture changes, and the fast pace of Electron’s release cycle (node ABI vs native modules), I’m constantly terrified about keeping builds running. Each upgrade … I’m just clenching my chest waiting for the other shoe to drop. I never thought I’d become a late adopter of technology. But here we are.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  There was a time in late high school, early university where OSX updates were like Christmas. I’d be so excited for all these new empowerments. There was such wonder and opportunity to be seized. But now I’m much like you. I’ve got stuff to do and digital places to be! If I don’t need an update, I don’t want one.
  - gymbeaux 4y ago
    I used to take off of work to watch WWDC live. Now I just read the MacRumors post when I'm in the bathroom.
    - mathieuh 4y ago
      A decade ago it was a good watch because every single time they had something brand new. Of course it’s difficult to follow that trend but for a long time now it’s just been iterative updates. Maybe it’s just because I’m getting older and my views on consumerism have strengthened, but I used to get excited to preorder their new products, now I couldn’t care less.
      - lostlogin 4y ago
        i think it’s that the products are now mature.
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    TBF, each update was bringing long expected features and bug fixes, and more than anything dramatic performance improvements. I started using macs around the 10.3 area, and boy was it slow and clunky. Was still glad it existed in the first place, but it really came a long way forward to the point it’s now faster than windows on ARM.
rayiner 4y ago
The static IP address entry field is messed up. It starts with blanks and dots but entering numbers doesn’t overwrite the blanks like in every IP address entry box since forever.
- pohuing 4y ago
  Funny how Windows made the same step backwards. It's ip input fields let you input all kinds of garbage, when the win 7 and control panel inputs constrain you to what is actually possible in ipv4/6. Do apple and ms share the same clueless designers?
Egoist 4y ago
There is also the problem with display settings. HiDPI option on higher resolutions is no longer available after upgrade.
jeffbee 4y ago
After reading this I learned there is a 13.1 available that macOS has failed to install or even mention, despite automatic updates being enabled. Apparently it came out 2 weeks ago.
andrekandre 4y ago
- Revealing files in Finder (either from the title bar menu or a command in another app) sometimes doesn’t work, revealing an ancestor folder instead of the actual file, or sometimes doing nothing at all. - Finder sometimes loses all of its sidebar items. - Finder sometimes forgets which sidebar sections are expanded. - Sometimes mounted drives disappear from the Computer view, even though they are still mounted and in use. - Finder windows sometimes don’t get focus when I click on them, even though Finder does become the frontmost app. what kind of changes necessitate these kinds of degredations? just random refactoring? junior engineers? developer culture? btw, if you've ever heard of the word kaizen(改善), the above would be called its opposite "kaiaku" (改悪)
- jxramos 4y ago
  Interested, never heard that term before. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%94%B9%E6%82%AA https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%94%B9%E6%82%AA
concinds 4y ago
I always see stories complaining about major macOS versions, but I've yet to see one about Windows yearly feature updates (except the data loss one years ago). It seems that even though the initial releases of Windows 10 and 11 get criticized, Microsoft is better able to balance new features and bug fixes than Apple for smaller updates. They're also far more transparent about known issues.[0] edit: Windows is no nirvana, but it's not acceptable for Apple to reserve security updates to the latest major version, and to only fix a previous release's bugs in the next release. It does feel like a permanent beta. Maybe creating a separate, and well-staffed, QA and bug-fix team would sidestep Mythical Man Month issues, and allow them to maintain the current pace of new features? Think about it, Craig! I bet a lot of Mac users avoid Apple's apps because major third-party apps are more stable. [0]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/status-windows-11-22h2 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/sta...
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Windows users are just used to things not working so they become desensitised. Every windows laptop has had suspend broken for the last few years and windows users just think it’s normal that your laptop heats up and drains to 0% overnight.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Every windows laptop has had suspend broken for the last few years What is “suspend” here? Hibernate? Sleep? Something else?
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      I believe its formal name is “modern standby (s0)”. Microsoft mandated it recently and most laptops have removed s3 sleep which used to work properly.
    - n8cpdx 4y ago
      If you want a clickbait video that describes the situation well: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c
singhrac 4y ago
One (small) nice update in Ventura that is often overlooked is Metal 3 support, which is a pretty neat graphics API upgrade.
meindnoch 4y ago
My most hated macOS bug: Safari’s URL bar resets the selection to the top item as the asynchronous suggestions load, which caused me to open the wrong URL countless times. See: https://youtu.be/teF1a2C6lwQ https://youtu.be/teF1a2C6lwQ This bug has been happening for at least 4 major OS releases now…
mdibiase 4y ago
Another item that I've seen gone from Ventura is the toggle to enable a low-power mode in the battery settings. Now, either you have always enabled when on battery, or not.
wlindley 4y ago
Ventura was a good program but having to run it under GEM was a drag.
mad0 4y ago
I've recently bought my macbook air m2 (and also my first apple device), so far I've encountered some issues listed below: - WiFi driver crashed after I've turned off the wifi, causing kernel to panic, rebooting my device. That happened twice already. - Plugging TV via HDMI via a USB-C hub, switching to HDMI sound output, causes all media to jump to +8-300 hours (even if given media length is smaller than that...), strangely enough changing audio output back to macbook's fixes the problem. - Activity monitor (macos task manager) takes FOREVER to load, if top/htop can load in mere miliseconds, why not the native app? - Sometimes app bar won't hide in fullscreen mode (don't really know if that's intended), hovering mouse over it will fix that. While I love the overall build quality, battery life and hardware, the software has some measurable "jank" in it, to the point I'm seriously considering not to buy apple stuff again. I've considered those devices to work out-of-the-box and after sitting on barely working linux as my daily driver I've decided to go for it and buy one. Now I've lost all hope for "just works" system, they do not exist.
xsc 4y ago
Not specifically Ventura, but anyone having issues having os remember monitor position? My Mac mini running Monterey can’t flips the monitor on login/unlock more often than not.
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  I had never had issues with external monitors until Ventura on the M1 Air. Now, each time I plug it in to the monitor whatever will happen is pretty random. Sometimes it gets the full EDID from the monitor and everything is as I want it to be, including resolutions, refresh rate and positions. Sometimes, I get partial EDID and only some refresh rates available (my monitor goes up to 144Hz, sometimes macOS can only do 60 or 75Hz). When that happens, resolutions and screen positions may or may not be ok. Most of the time the laptop screen is set to mirror the monitor which is pretty much never what I wanted. Other times it just doesn't properly detect the monitor which stays blank until I disconnect and reconnect - at which point any of the above paragraph might happen. More rarely, the computer freezes and I need to force shutdown.
jkmcf 4y ago
Sharing in case this helps anyone. Since upgrading to 13.1, notifications have been severely problematic. Slow, delayed, clicking on Slack notifications would open the app minutes after the click. This stackexchange reply solved the problem for me: https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/219528/34701 https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/219528/34701 cd `getconf DARWIN_USER_DIR` rm -rf com.apple.notificationcenter killall usernoted; killall NotificationCenter # restart computer
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

163 points by zdw 4y ago

The ones I’ve noticed - once the 10g adapter just decided to imitate a DSL modem for some reason. Disabling and reenabling it fixed it (it reported 10g negotiated on Both sides the whole time). And if I edit a file in downloads and save it - finder sorts it at the top (I sort by date) but an upload file dialog in safari doesn’t see the new date

thewebcount 4y ago

Some of these may not be bugs. For example, I actually prefer this: > Mail now loses the mailbox selection when you start a search, instead changing the selection to All Mailboxes, which is rarely the scope that I want. This one isn’t new to Ventura. This happened all the time to me as far back as Big Sur: > External drives still take minutes to mount or sometimes never mount automatically. Sometimes I can manually mount them from Disk Utility. Other times I need to reboot or disconnect other drives first. The real question is, has the author opened Feedback Requests about these things? If not, don’t expect them to get fixed any time soon.

spikeagally 4y ago
I also prefer the new all mailbox search. The old behaviour drove me mad. It’s definitely not a bug.
jws 4y ago
External drives still take minutes to mount or sometimes never mount automatically. Sometimes I can manually mount them from Disk Utility. Other times I need to reboot or disconnect other drives first. I've encountered failing USB disks which appear to work fine on macOS, but suddenly operations take minutes to perform and can block operations system wide. They don't report errors, and they don't show as CPU use in any program, but everything on the system slows to a crawl when you hit sensitive spots on the disk. It's worth removing external storage devices and adding them back one by one any time you have a hanging or slow Mac to diagnose. Apple hates to scare or confuse users, but if a disk drive is taking a four orders of magnitude more time to do operations than it used to, I'd like my computer to please let me know.
1over137 4y ago
>The real question is, has the author opened Feedback Requests about these things? If not, don’t expect them to get fixed any time soon. And if you do open 'Feedback Requests', don't expect them to get fixed any time soon.
- thewebcount 4y ago
  Yeah, I’ve felt that pain, for sure. The flip side is that if you don’t open a feedback request, don’t expect it to get fixed ever. They can’t fix a bug they aren’t aware of or don’t have steps to reproduce.
michelb 4y ago
Some of the listed points in the article have been bugs for YEARS. They have survived major release cycles and a lot of them have Radars. Nobody wants to fix any of the thousands of bugs in MacOSX. Apple is just falling forward with every release.

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

The System Preferences redesign was a huge red flag. This OS is a Lion, no thanks.

byteduck 4y ago
Actually, I think 10.7 was a Lion ;)
- akerl_ 4y ago
  I think you've missed what the parent comment is saying: that this release, to them, is akin to 10.7.
  - kmonsen 4y ago
    To be honest, it was very easy to miss what parent was saying. Your comment helps clarify though, thanks!
  - byteduck 4y ago
    I was making a joke, but I guess I forgot what site I'm on.
    - akerl_ 4y ago
      You’re on Hackernews.
locusofself 4y ago
I'd like to understand what "This OS is a Lion" means. Is that a commonly used phrase?
- simonbarker87 4y ago
  My understanding is that OSX Lion was a release that changed a lot and had many bugs, looks like Ventura could be the same

mberning 4y ago

Apple is badly, badly in need of a “code red” style freeze on new features for macOS and iOS. Even very basic things which should be rock solid are not. I just had a kernel panic when copying files to an smb mount. No issue when I do the same copy mounted as nfs. Ridiculous in this era.

userbinator 4y ago
I just had a kernel panic when copying files to an smb mount. Apple rewrote the SMB code to make it closed-source starting with 10.12, I believe; the immediately noticeable effect was that it became far buggier.
- awesomegoat_com 4y ago
  Hahaha, spend more money and end up with inferior result. Must have had some serious managers involved.
BirAdam 4y ago
Long ago, the release speed in the entire industry accelerated. I knew that quality would nose dive as a result because there was no way to develop and fully test an entire OS (even for a phone) as frequently as each is being released. All operating systems are now effectively permanently in beta.
- rektide 4y ago
  It's not just about release speed. The whole industry is aligned towards new, towards features, towards impact. Going around making the world better doesnt rank, isnt visible work, isnt tracked or roadmaps, isnt rewarded, and frankly, it's not as fun being a 0.1X hacker tackling the gross ugly old shit, especially when the org wont say thank you either.
  - avidphantasm 4y ago
    I would pay $100 per year for macOS if it meant they would go slower and make it rock solid.

fogleman 4y ago

Ventura has serious issues with ExFAT volumes (failing to boot with them connected, Finder or other apps not showing all of the files, inability to empty the trash, etc.) I have several 2 TB external SSD's and ended up migrating them all to APFS because of Ventura. If you google "ventura exfat site:discussions.apple.com" you'll see all sorts of complaints. Pretty terrible situation.

gymbeaux 4y ago
Ventura has serious issues.

yborg 4y ago

Most of these frankly seem like small beer and to be expected in an early release of an OS. I also am not sure how a Git Tower issue is a Ventura problem. That said, I'm still running Monterey, having amended my practice of waiting until the after the first point release to now waiting until the 2nd to do a full version update because of Apple's tendency in recent years to introduce major bugs which are not compensated by major functionality improvements. Updating System Settings to look like iOS serves Apple's needs, not mine.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
saagarjha 4y ago
> Most of these frankly seem like small beer and to be expected in an early release of an OS. This is not a beta OS. It’s been out for months. Having things randomly freeze because you decided to connect an external drive is not really OK. > I also am not sure how a Git Tower issue is a Ventura problem. Presumably it used to work, which means AppKit broke something.
- userbinator 4y ago
  This is not a beta OS. It’s been out for months. Neither was it written from scratch in a few months. It inherits the effort of two decades of work on what was originally OS X.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

Can I get a word in for Screen Time / Parental Controls being completely broken for years? (One bug of many: “Internet Filtering” randomly fails open after a few hours, allowing private browsing and no filtering on child accounts.)

AJRF 4y ago
I've had to turn it off in Ventura. Sometimes it will just decide it's time for downtime outside of the schedule. Tried everything to fix it including turning off syncing of Screen Time settings, changing schedule, resetting all the settings, restarting computer. Nope, will still do it every few hours.
fragmede 4y ago
Yeah it's a shame. FWIW, I block sites by using a DNS app on my iphone (AdGuard Pro) which emulates a VPN in order to work.
ghishadow 4y ago
wow i thought it was only broken for me, it random block apps for me

gjsman-1000 4y ago

I still can’t get over that I can remove Apple Music, Podcasts, Stocks, and so on on iOS, but I can’t do it on my Mac without tearing the OS apart.

AJRF 4y ago

The new system settings app is painful. It freezes for up to 30 seconds at a time after I take an action. It often goes completely blank, it flickers a lot and in general it's so hard to find stuff in it - the search is bad and they have just jammed settings in places that don't make sense. I am on a 2020 MacBook Air with m1 chip, 16GB ram - wouldn't expect performance problems in the settings app, yet here we are. I also get that issue with Safari where it freezes the entire system, that happens on my work laptop which is an M1 Max with 32GB RAM

baggy_trough 4y ago
Agreed, the Settings app is horribly ugly now. So is About This Mac.
- andrekandre 4y ago
  its not only ugly, its harder to use, more confusing where things are placed now...
  - KerrAvon 4y ago
    Am I the only person who could never find where anything in the old prefs app was? I started using OS X in 2001. The old prefs app also didn’t scale.
wildrhythms 4y ago
Seriously, what was wrong with the old tried and true System Preferences? Everything had a recognizable icon, every icon arranged in simple rows, and every icon lay before me in a single window. Now, I'm forced to scroll the pane on the left (unclear since scroll bars are invisible by default) to find the outermost setting, and then deal with nested navigation confined inside of the right pane. Also, gone are the recognizable icons, replaced with confusingly similar colored gradients and a hieroglyph icon that is unreadable because the contrast ratio terrible against the gradient. Also, the 'search' causes the entire left navigational pane to go blank and replace itself with search results, rather than 'show me the way' like it used to. Extremely disappointing! Old: https://i.imgur.com/sZY9dUw.png https://i.imgur.com/sZY9dUw.png New: https://i.imgur.com/NGj7I69.jpg https://i.imgur.com/NGj7I69.jpg

Orlan 4y ago

This OS "upgrade" has been annoying. At least I'm not the only one with issues, and I have some of the same issues listed listed here. I hadn't seen them documented elsewhere. I waited until the first point release to upgrade in hope of a seamless transition, but instead I've been keeping a list of issues. I've been meaning to do a writeup (or at lease a tweet), but haven't done so for the same reason I still haven't spent time trying to fix them. It's many small annoying things. There might be a way to fix some of them (like the generic icons for some filetypes, or my NAS not mounting at startup, or Finder constantly crashing), but so far I've decided to keep my sanity.

jviotti 4y ago

One of mine: sometimes (50% of the times?) turning on my MacBook Pro for the first time leads to the Dock using very high CPU and making switching between desktops abnormally slow. The fix is to force-kill the Dock app, and make it restart again by itself.

saagarjha 4y ago
Have you looked into what it is doing during that time?
lapcat 4y ago
I wonder if this is the same issue? https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/dock.html https://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/dock.html

mattgreenrocks 4y ago

Just today I tried to look for how to switch to using the discrete GPU on my 2019 Intel MBP, but I couldn’t find a setting for it. Is it gone?

xenospn 4y ago
You can still do it, but it’s not exposed in the UI anymore.
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  I don't think it was ever officially in the UI beyond "allowing" certain applications to use the dedicated GPU inside a MacBook Pro. The only reason Apple even added that was as a battery conservation concern.
gfxgirl 4y ago
was there ever a setting for this? I always used gSwitch or gfxCardStatus to varying degrees of success
- mattgreenrocks 4y ago
  It was labeled "Automatic graphics switching" in past releases. It appears to be gone completely. I just confirmed it was under Battery on 12.5.1. This is a shame. The Intel GPU on the 2019 MBP is pretty anemic and it is definitely felt when programming in some editors.

barathr 4y ago

Ventura also broke DNS-over-TLS support and reliable blocking of domains using /etc/hosts. Some browsers are no longer able to use either on Ventura while other browsers do.

spritefs 4y ago

Something else that's odd is it will sometimes mix up icons in the force quit menu. But this was around prior to ventura At the same time, there's so much stuff going on in macos that there's a very wide surface area for random things like this. I wonder how many people work on it, if I had to guess it would be in the hundreds

blinkingled 4y ago

Apple on a good day does just enough to get the basics right. Beyond the basics it's a matter of luck whether something will work and continue to work reliably. The thing is even Microsoft in the post Win 10 era is reliant on insiders to test Windows releases nowadays so there's not really much competition for desktop market nor is there anything huge at stake. At this point I as a regular non-enterprise customer can't even pay for a churn free, ads free, forced apps free security updates only OS like Windows 7 - unexpectedly fast descent into sadness. (Where possible I run Linux and thankfully it has worked fine so far but some work things still require Windows or Mac.)

jxramos 4y ago
I always felt that mantra of Apple simplicity was a cop out for lack of desire or inability to write rich complex software at scale and not get subsumed by bugs and QA load. It is a matter of prioritization too, the non sexy stuff doesn’t sell nor lead to promotions so many fundamental things just stagnate it feels. I joke with my wife that being in the Apple ecosystem is sometimes like being married to this inconsistent and erratic spouse who oscillates between a few extremes. They bring out all this high romance show off blingy stuff that elicits high emotions and surprise and delight. But when it comes to the more mundane stuff like cleaning up and daily chores and keeping the socks and underwear off the floor they become lazy bums sleeping on the couch who can’t be bothered. They then try to make it up to you with a “hey babe check this out I can now do fancy thing xyz, see?” all the while ignoring the honeydo list of 125 things that have made no progress in the last three years. The funny thing is I’m still on the fence for determining which ratio the behaviors skew and how it all rolls up in net.

gymbeaux 4y ago

OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion was the last release of the golden years. You could argue it was actually 10.9 Mavericks, but that's the release that introduced the annoying notification every time you disconnected a USB drive. Either way, OS X 10.10 Yosemite was when shit started hitting the fan- that's when they started rewriting OS X in Swift, an Apple-designed language which is somehow WORSE than Objective-C. As a software engineer, I find all three ecosystems (macOS, Windows, Linux) far from perfect, but the only one that ALLOWS me to do all the things I want and need to do, is Linux.

gymbeaux 4y ago
Also, it's 2022 and Xcode is still trash
- gghffguhvc 4y ago
  As someone who uses XCode with schemes and Android studio with flavors, I have way more issues with Android studio. Having to invalidate caches on Android studio quite frequently and delete derived files in Xcode occasionally. But with Apple Studio Ultra at least build times on both are amazing compared to a few years ago.
ihatepython 4y ago
10.8 is the last release before they fired Scott Forstall
- lapcat 4y ago
  I'm not sure how that's relevant, because Forstall had been working on iPhone his last 5 years at Apple, not Mac. More relevant would be the death of Steve Jobs...

userbinator 4y ago

Those on the Windows side are just as if not more angered by Windows 11 too. The software industry has become an example of quantity over quality, features over fixes, change and novelty over stability, diversity over excellence. Instead of gradually approaching perfection as bugs are fixed over time, software gets needlessly rewritten and introduces a bunch of new bugs. Thanks to the wholly misguided focus on "developer experience", the new version is more inefficient and more complex, leading to even more bugs than the previous one. They call it "progress", but it really isn't. It's an increasingly steep decline fueled by an abundance of developers that need to be given something to do.

DrewADesign 4y ago
I recently switched to Windows because I need some performance-intensive windows-only software. I'm convinced that Microsoft lets marketing write the feature bullet list and then tells product managers to assign arbitrary dates to each bullet entry and use that as their project timeline. Quality is absolute garbage. Microsoft 365 Family is shockingly bad. The 6tb of storage you get for $10/mo (spread out over 6 accounts) might not actually be worth it.
- cokeandpepsi 4y ago
  pretty much, after microsoft decided windows wasn't really critical they kind of just let random people go to town with it that's why opensource platforms are so important, general computing is kind of screwed when apple or microsoft get distracted by something shiney
rayiner 4y ago
It’s not even “the quantity over quality.” Early OS X point releases would get big new features like hardware accelerated compositing. What does Ventura even add? The last big new feature was APFS becoming the default back in 2017. I guess it’s better than Microsoft, where Metro/WinUI/web rewrites of core apps actually remove tons of long-standing features.
- 4y ago

semireg 4y ago

I ignore macOS updates as a self preservation technique until something forces my hand such as buying a new computer or Xcode complaining it only runs on a particular release. Between macOS, cpu architecture changes, and the fast pace of Electron’s release cycle (node ABI vs native modules), I’m constantly terrified about keeping builds running. Each upgrade … I’m just clenching my chest waiting for the other shoe to drop. I never thought I’d become a late adopter of technology. But here we are.

Waterluvian 4y ago
There was a time in late high school, early university where OSX updates were like Christmas. I’d be so excited for all these new empowerments. There was such wonder and opportunity to be seized. But now I’m much like you. I’ve got stuff to do and digital places to be! If I don’t need an update, I don’t want one.
- gymbeaux 4y ago
  I used to take off of work to watch WWDC live. Now I just read the MacRumors post when I'm in the bathroom.
  - mathieuh 4y ago
    A decade ago it was a good watch because every single time they had something brand new. Of course it’s difficult to follow that trend but for a long time now it’s just been iterative updates. Maybe it’s just because I’m getting older and my views on consumerism have strengthened, but I used to get excited to preorder their new products, now I couldn’t care less.
    - lostlogin 4y ago
      i think it’s that the products are now mature.
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  TBF, each update was bringing long expected features and bug fixes, and more than anything dramatic performance improvements. I started using macs around the 10.3 area, and boy was it slow and clunky. Was still glad it existed in the first place, but it really came a long way forward to the point it’s now faster than windows on ARM.

rayiner 4y ago

The static IP address entry field is messed up. It starts with blanks and dots but entering numbers doesn’t overwrite the blanks like in every IP address entry box since forever.

pohuing 4y ago
Funny how Windows made the same step backwards. It's ip input fields let you input all kinds of garbage, when the win 7 and control panel inputs constrain you to what is actually possible in ipv4/6. Do apple and ms share the same clueless designers?

Egoist 4y ago

There is also the problem with display settings. HiDPI option on higher resolutions is no longer available after upgrade.

jeffbee 4y ago

After reading this I learned there is a 13.1 available that macOS has failed to install or even mention, despite automatic updates being enabled. Apparently it came out 2 weeks ago.

andrekandre 4y ago

- Revealing files in Finder (either from the title bar menu or a command in another app) sometimes doesn’t work, revealing an ancestor folder instead of the actual file, or sometimes doing nothing at all. - Finder sometimes loses all of its sidebar items. - Finder sometimes forgets which sidebar sections are expanded. - Sometimes mounted drives disappear from the Computer view, even though they are still mounted and in use. - Finder windows sometimes don’t get focus when I click on them, even though Finder does become the frontmost app. what kind of changes necessitate these kinds of degredations? just random refactoring? junior engineers? developer culture? btw, if you've ever heard of the word kaizen(改善), the above would be called its opposite "kaiaku" (改悪)

jxramos 4y ago
Interested, never heard that term before. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%94%B9%E6%82%AA https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%94%B9%E6%82%AA

concinds 4y ago

I always see stories complaining about major macOS versions, but I've yet to see one about Windows yearly feature updates (except the data loss one years ago). It seems that even though the initial releases of Windows 10 and 11 get criticized, Microsoft is better able to balance new features and bug fixes than Apple for smaller updates. They're also far more transparent about known issues.[0] edit: Windows is no nirvana, but it's not acceptable for Apple to reserve security updates to the latest major version, and to only fix a previous release's bugs in the next release. It does feel like a permanent beta. Maybe creating a separate, and well-staffed, QA and bug-fix team would sidestep Mythical Man Month issues, and allow them to maintain the current pace of new features? Think about it, Craig! I bet a lot of Mac users avoid Apple's apps because major third-party apps are more stable. [0]: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/status-windows-11-22h2 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/sta...

Gigachad 4y ago
Windows users are just used to things not working so they become desensitised. Every windows laptop has had suspend broken for the last few years and windows users just think it’s normal that your laptop heats up and drains to 0% overnight.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Every windows laptop has had suspend broken for the last few years What is “suspend” here? Hibernate? Sleep? Something else?
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    I believe its formal name is “modern standby (s0)”. Microsoft mandated it recently and most laptops have removed s3 sleep which used to work properly.
  - n8cpdx 4y ago
    If you want a clickbait video that describes the situation well: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c

singhrac 4y ago

One (small) nice update in Ventura that is often overlooked is Metal 3 support, which is a pretty neat graphics API upgrade.

meindnoch 4y ago

My most hated macOS bug: Safari’s URL bar resets the selection to the top item as the asynchronous suggestions load, which caused me to open the wrong URL countless times. See: https://youtu.be/teF1a2C6lwQ https://youtu.be/teF1a2C6lwQ This bug has been happening for at least 4 major OS releases now…

mdibiase 4y ago

Another item that I've seen gone from Ventura is the toggle to enable a low-power mode in the battery settings. Now, either you have always enabled when on battery, or not.

wlindley 4y ago

Ventura was a good program but having to run it under GEM was a drag.

mad0 4y ago

I've recently bought my macbook air m2 (and also my first apple device), so far I've encountered some issues listed below: - WiFi driver crashed after I've turned off the wifi, causing kernel to panic, rebooting my device. That happened twice already. - Plugging TV via HDMI via a USB-C hub, switching to HDMI sound output, causes all media to jump to +8-300 hours (even if given media length is smaller than that...), strangely enough changing audio output back to macbook's fixes the problem. - Activity monitor (macos task manager) takes FOREVER to load, if top/htop can load in mere miliseconds, why not the native app? - Sometimes app bar won't hide in fullscreen mode (don't really know if that's intended), hovering mouse over it will fix that. While I love the overall build quality, battery life and hardware, the software has some measurable "jank" in it, to the point I'm seriously considering not to buy apple stuff again. I've considered those devices to work out-of-the-box and after sitting on barely working linux as my daily driver I've decided to go for it and buy one. Now I've lost all hope for "just works" system, they do not exist.

xsc 4y ago

Not specifically Ventura, but anyone having issues having os remember monitor position? My Mac mini running Monterey can’t flips the monitor on login/unlock more often than not.

cassianoleal 4y ago
I had never had issues with external monitors until Ventura on the M1 Air. Now, each time I plug it in to the monitor whatever will happen is pretty random. Sometimes it gets the full EDID from the monitor and everything is as I want it to be, including resolutions, refresh rate and positions. Sometimes, I get partial EDID and only some refresh rates available (my monitor goes up to 144Hz, sometimes macOS can only do 60 or 75Hz). When that happens, resolutions and screen positions may or may not be ok. Most of the time the laptop screen is set to mirror the monitor which is pretty much never what I wanted. Other times it just doesn't properly detect the monitor which stays blank until I disconnect and reconnect - at which point any of the above paragraph might happen. More rarely, the computer freezes and I need to force shutdown.

jkmcf 4y ago

Sharing in case this helps anyone. Since upgrading to 13.1, notifications have been severely problematic. Slow, delayed, clicking on Slack notifications would open the app minutes after the click. This stackexchange reply solved the problem for me: https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/219528/34701 https://apple.stackexchange.com/a/219528/34701 cd `getconf DARWIN_USER_DIR` rm -rf com.apple.notificationcenter killall usernoted; killall NotificationCenter # restart computer

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