9 ms·

As a Canadian, I'm mostly okay with the system because I don't think it's changed much. My grandmother was nearing her end a few decades ago- very fast moving

by mabbo 4y ago

As a Canadian, I'm mostly okay with the system because I don't think it's changed much. My grandmother was nearing her end a few decades ago- very fast moving lung cancer- long before these options were legally available. She was terrified of being unable to breath, dying from that. Her doctor looked her in the eye and said "I promise you, you won't die that way if you don't want to". And she didn't. Medical assisted suicide for terminal patients has always existed, in the shadows. Now it's just legitimized and being done openly. I have some concerns over depressed people dying when they might be able to get treatment to help them. I'm sure there are cases of this happening. But I also think most of those people were going to commit suicide on their own anyway. Now it's being done safely, in the sense that a failed suicide can make things even worse. I'd like to see more being done to ensure these people truly have no other options, but I also know that I'm not qualified to pass judgement. I have faith that the doctors and medical system are doing what they think is best, and that they know more than I do.

Amezarak 4y ago
People working in the system don't have the same faith. From the article: > In October 2020, the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer issued a report stating that MAiD would cut healthcare costs by over $66 million. In 2017, Aaron Trachtenberg, a research fellow and a doctor at the University of Manitoba, and Braden Manns, a health economist and nephrologist at the University of Calgary, published a paper predicting that MAiD could slash healthcare costs by as much as $100 million yearly. > “I do worry MAiD is an easy solution to bed shortages and the terrible lack of resources patients are facing,” Dr. Ramona Coelho, a family physician in a suburb of Toronto, told me. She added that “the perverse disincentive that exists for administrators and governments with providing MAiD rather than care and resources to live can present a real danger to the lives of vulnerable or marginalized persons.” There have also been reports of medical staff pressuring patients to sign up for MAiD to save the government money. https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-being-pushed-on-me-by-hospital/ https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-... > “They asked if I want an assisted death. I don’t. I was told that I would be charged $1,800 per day [for hospital care]. I have $2 million worth of bills. Nurses here told me that I should end my life. That shocked me.” In the US, "medical error" is the third leading cause of death. Nurses and doctors are regularly fired or sued for serious wrongdoing. There's good ones and bad ones, competent ones and incompetent ones. Every profession is a mixed bag. I am sure it is no different in Canada. You can never, ever, trust a system. You can trust individuals.
- mcrae 4y ago
  I'm not sure if the economic angle is convincing, since Canada spends over $300B a year on healthcare [0]. Are you suggesting MAID was introduced to save "as much as" 0.03% of healthcare expenditure? [0] https://www.cihi.ca/en/news/covid-19-expected-to-push-canadas-health-spending-beyond-300-billion-in-2021 https://www.cihi.ca/en/news/covid-19-expected-to-push-canada...
  - carapace 4y ago
    The economic angle is convincing only to sociopaths. Sane people don't kill people to save money.
    - loeg 4y ago
      > Sane people don't kill people to save money. Of course, that isn't true in the abstract. Some number of people die in the US annually for lack of government spending on healthcare, and presumably we could spend less and kill more people, or vice versa. Government healthcare systems are kind of fundamentally a tradeoff between spending and saving lives.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        There's a difference between killing someone and not saving someone's life.
        MockObject 4y ago
        On a spreadsheet, they look quite the same.
        josephcsible 4y ago
        Does this mean you should always pull the lever in the trolley problem?
        4y ago
grammers 4y ago
> Medical assisted suicide for terminal patients has always existed, in the shadows. Now it's just legitimized and being done openly. That's very good. My grandmother tried to kill herself with sleeping pills because she was desperate and no legal option for help existed back then. She was not successful and the end wasn't nice. It's nothing anyone should go through.
- eikenberry 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - carapace 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - tejohnso 4y ago
      Consider reading The Peaceful Pill Handbook for a pretty thorough overview of the options.
    - eikenberry 4y ago
      Just trying to help get this info out there. When I researched suicide after my father's death it was super hard to find good information. I eventually found out about this so am trying to spread the word to those looking.
      - carapace 4y ago
        I know what you're doing, I think it's irresponsible to the point of madness: I think you're nuts. You are on the Internet telling people how to kill themselves. Reconsider.
    - eikenberry 4y ago
      Looks like those who think they know better are enforcing the stigma by flagging a simple attempt to help spread the word about a good way to commit suicide. Bully for them and their goal of furthering human suffering.

by mabbo 4y ago

Amezarak 4y ago

People working in the system don't have the same faith. From the article: > In October 2020, the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer issued a report stating that MAiD would cut healthcare costs by over $66 million. In 2017, Aaron Trachtenberg, a research fellow and a doctor at the University of Manitoba, and Braden Manns, a health economist and nephrologist at the University of Calgary, published a paper predicting that MAiD could slash healthcare costs by as much as $100 million yearly. > “I do worry MAiD is an easy solution to bed shortages and the terrible lack of resources patients are facing,” Dr. Ramona Coelho, a family physician in a suburb of Toronto, told me. She added that “the perverse disincentive that exists for administrators and governments with providing MAiD rather than care and resources to live can present a real danger to the lives of vulnerable or marginalized persons.” There have also been reports of medical staff pressuring patients to sign up for MAiD to save the government money. https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-being-pushed-on-me-by-hospital/ https://nypost.com/2022/11/08/canadian-man-assisted-suicide-... > “They asked if I want an assisted death. I don’t. I was told that I would be charged $1,800 per day [for hospital care]. I have $2 million worth of bills. Nurses here told me that I should end my life. That shocked me.” In the US, "medical error" is the third leading cause of death. Nurses and doctors are regularly fired or sued for serious wrongdoing. There's good ones and bad ones, competent ones and incompetent ones. Every profession is a mixed bag. I am sure it is no different in Canada. You can never, ever, trust a system. You can trust individuals.

mcrae 4y ago
I'm not sure if the economic angle is convincing, since Canada spends over $300B a year on healthcare [0]. Are you suggesting MAID was introduced to save "as much as" 0.03% of healthcare expenditure? [0] https://www.cihi.ca/en/news/covid-19-expected-to-push-canadas-health-spending-beyond-300-billion-in-2021 https://www.cihi.ca/en/news/covid-19-expected-to-push-canada...
- carapace 4y ago
  The economic angle is convincing only to sociopaths. Sane people don't kill people to save money.
  - loeg 4y ago
    > Sane people don't kill people to save money. Of course, that isn't true in the abstract. Some number of people die in the US annually for lack of government spending on healthcare, and presumably we could spend less and kill more people, or vice versa. Government healthcare systems are kind of fundamentally a tradeoff between spending and saving lives.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      There's a difference between killing someone and not saving someone's life.
      - MockObject 4y ago
        On a spreadsheet, they look quite the same.
        josephcsible 4y ago
        Does this mean you should always pull the lever in the trolley problem?
      - 4y ago

grammers 4y ago

> Medical assisted suicide for terminal patients has always existed, in the shadows. Now it's just legitimized and being done openly. That's very good. My grandmother tried to kill herself with sleeping pills because she was desperate and no legal option for help existed back then. She was not successful and the end wasn't nice. It's nothing anyone should go through.

eikenberry 4y ago
[flagged]
- carapace 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - tejohnso 4y ago
    Consider reading The Peaceful Pill Handbook for a pretty thorough overview of the options.
  - eikenberry 4y ago
    Just trying to help get this info out there. When I researched suicide after my father's death it was super hard to find good information. I eventually found out about this so am trying to spread the word to those looking.
    - carapace 4y ago
      I know what you're doing, I think it's irresponsible to the point of madness: I think you're nuts. You are on the Internet telling people how to kill themselves. Reconsider.
  - eikenberry 4y ago
    Looks like those who think they know better are enforcing the stigma by flagging a simple attempt to help spread the word about a good way to commit suicide. Bully for them and their goal of furthering human suffering.