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Tesla stock falls again, toward longest losing streak in more than 4 years

141 points by davidbarker 4y ago

M3L0NM4N 4y ago
Remember, narrative follows the price. I've never touched the stock because it's been a very, very, very overpriced stock for a while. If it came down to a reasonable multiple, only then would I consider buying it.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  Narrative can definitely shape price at least in the short/medium term.
andrewmcwatters 4y ago
Probably closer to fair value now, still overpriced though.
- friedman23 4y ago
  Funny enough I think it's actually undervalued now. Tesla has bought up all the mining rights for the minerals required to ramp up battery production and will likely be the only EV manufacturer that's not supply constrained for the next decade. I'm still not bought in yet, probably a lot more room for it to crater.
  - tony_cannistra 4y ago
    They have?
    - amluto 4y ago
      The latest news seems to suggest that companies like CATL are, and will continue to be, the battery leaders. I imagine that CATL will gladly sell to anyone who wants to buy.
    - ulfw 4y ago
      Of course they haven't bought 'all the mining rights'.
  - modo_mario 4y ago
    Do you happen to have a source for that? It hasn't been long since Musk outed that they'd consider mining so i'm sceptical.
  - andrewmcwatters 4y ago
    Might be actually, I didn't actually look at the DCF. Just eyeballing their PE and their growth didn't make it attractive enough to me. I feel like it should be abundantly clear.
    - ijidak 4y ago
      Where do you check DCF? I had to build my own Excel spreadsheet for this. But I would love to find a place where they've already done this for me!
      - andrewmcwatters 4y ago
        GuruFocus might be OK. I haven't checked their DCF methodology, but my guess is they probably get it right.
  - yreg 4y ago
    TSLA P/E: 36 AMZN P/E: 75 MCD P/E: 34
  - victor106 4y ago
    > Tesla has bought up all the mining rights for the minerals required to ramp up battery production Source?
    - awacs 4y ago
      I have to say, I didn't realize how strong Hydrogen powered vehicles are right now in development. That could be a legit competitor soon if they work out some of the smaller kinks and develop a fueling network. Literally zero fueling time, much less lithium in the manufacturing process and a closer feel to traditional ICE.
      - akmarinov 4y ago
        But the efficiency of taking power to make the hydrogen into liquid form only to make it back into electricity later on is horrible. Also with a BEV if you have solar, you can literally fuel your car for free. Why bother with hydrogen?
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    > EV manufacturer that's not supply constrained for the next decade Ok, since it didn't make the news, I'm completely on the dark here... but are you talking about the supply of lithium? If so, I have some news to you about one of the most common metals on Earth's surface.
    - friedman23 4y ago
      It's not just lithium and none of this is as simple as you imagine it to be.
      - marcosdumay 4y ago
        So it is lithium. If you don't tell what you want to say, I'm pretty comfortable to keep assuming the details are all wrong. And yes, it's a simple algorithm. Yet it seems to work quite well.
    - NovaVeles 4y ago
      Lithium is widely known about, the real challenge is getting it. I'm not worried about the abundance of lithium, it is the speed at which we can get it that is the issue. One can still have a shortage even if there is an abundance of potential materials. And starting new mines is a long process. The quickest I have ever seen a decent mine come online from initial approval is 8 years. Materials we should worry about long term in terms of total volume would be stuff like Cobalt, Nickle and Graphite. But not in the next decade. A big part of the whole issue of mining is something I always have to bring up to some folks. There are four ways to categorize in which a material is available. The is the resource, how much we theorize is available. Lithium is a great example, there is loads of the stuff. There are the reserves, how much we actually know exists. Where it is, what grades etc. This is always lower than the resource. There is if it is technically extract able. Do we have the technology to get it out? What good is a reserve if it is 200KM under ground? The total of this is always less than the reserves. And finally, what is economically viable. Say we can still get the materials, are people willing to pay for it? This is my big argument against mining asteroids. This is always less than what is technically extract able. Once you past through those 4 gates then we can start talking. Don't just talk strategy, talk logistics. It is boring an dirty but it is were the rubber meets the road. The abundance argument is the same used for silicon and solar panels. Yes it is everywhere but there is a reason we mine quartz rather than just boiling up random patches of dirt to get the stuff.
  - samwillis 4y ago
    I don't really believe this narrative. Mineral rights are so easily effected by geopolitics the "rights" they have brought could easily be worthless in two years time. I'm also unconvinced that we should be 100% in on only lithium for BEVs, it's important to have multiple technologies. Just look as traditional ICE cars, we have Petrol and Diesel. I see Lithium as the Petrol of BEVs, what's the Diesel going to be?
    - dumbotron 4y ago
      Normally I don't give Elon much credit, but mineral rights in third-world countries should be something he actually knows.
  - joewadcan 4y ago
    Same. but not for the reason of mining rights. They definitely have long term contracts for their own production secured but are a long ways from cornering that market. I think the energy side of their business is about to grow tremendously and they'll reduce profit margin and continue growing crazy fast on the auto side.
nextstep 4y ago
Some of this can be blamed on the production issues in China and maybe Musk's tweets courting far-right provocateurs, but Tesla was always massively over-valued and this is just things coming back down to reality. Probably still a ways to go as the Cyber Truck and the Semi are likely to disappoint and/or be further delayed.
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  I think Semi is underestimated at this point. E needs to quit Twitter and get back to his real job. There’s massive value in the Semi line, but it probably needs a big push (like with Model 3) to get it ramped up (including battery capacity). This IS a bad time for ramping production, though, as interest rates are higher.
paulpauper 4y ago
Also, notably META is very strong recently. Same for Netflix. Shows how the whims of market are always changing.
- skizm 4y ago
  Eh, they're not in freefall any more. Very strong is probably an overstatement since they're still down over 65% YTD and even more from ATHs. I'm a big Meta (stock) fan though. I think they're insanely undervalued at the moment (says the guy holding a bunch of their stock that's down close to 50% all together lol)
  - rubicon33 4y ago
    Why do you think they are “insanely” undervalued?
    - ctvo 4y ago
      Because their advertising business is still wildly profitable even with the ad tracking changes. If they continue to reduce costs and stop investing in the metaverse they’re a great company. Now, add in TikTok potentially being banned in the US and you can see their social media apps being even stronger positioned.
    - skizm 4y ago
      #1 reason is because they're running WhatsApp, a 2 billion+ MAU service, and not monetizing it at all right now. Hypothetically a single text ad on the home screen would add billions to their bottom line overnight. #2 reason is because their core products have staying power. They've lived through twitter, snapchat, pintrest, a ton of other smaller social networks, and are still wildly profitable. I fully anticipate they'll outlive (or at least co-exist with) tiktok in the long run and do fine. #3 is "the metaverse" has like a 0.1% chance to make trillions of dollars if it works out like they think. Worst (and most likely) case is that it fails, but it isn't like they bet on something that destroyed their core business. They can just stop investing at any time really and add another $10B in profit. Even after their investments in "the metaverse" they're still pulling in nearly $30B in profit on $120B in revenue. Obviously if I knew the future I'd be rich already, but that's my 2 cents. shrug
CharlesW 4y ago
From https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050 https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050, written while Tesla was at $123.15: While the markets have been closed, two major stories about Tesla have broken. A. Tesla is shutting down factories because demand is plummeting. B. Musk praised a truly insane Russian propaganda tweet, predicting the fall of the west She expects Tesla to fall below $100 by 1/1. It seems notable that the price of used Telsas has fallen 15%+ since August as well, which is about double the trend for used car prices in general: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Tesla-m112 https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Tesla-m112
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  I think B only matters as a signal of leadership instability. And I think it tells us nothing new about Mr. Musk that we didn't already know. So I think B is probably not really a factor. A is plenty enough to explain the market behaviour.
  - Robotbeat 4y ago
    Wait, you guys know that was a joke, right? Is it okay to not do due diligence on claims because we don’t like a guy? (Which isn’t to say it makes the market feel better, but come on…)
    - the_snooze 4y ago
      If he wants to joke, he should give up the CEO's office for a clown gig.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        And then he can use as much drugs as he wants without it introducing new and interesting avenues for geopolitical instability.
        Waterluvian 4y ago
hericium 4y ago
$LCID down 70%. Elon: "they are not long for this world" $TSLA down 70%. Elon: "unfavorable market conditions"
- vardump 4y ago
  It'd make more sense to compare cash flow. Stock price doesn't necessarily say much about companies' survival prospects.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  LCID barley less any vehicles, and is losing billions, has bad automotive margin. Tesla, is growing, has leading margin, made 3 billion $ last quarter. Totally comparable.
  - akmarinov 4y ago
    I mean Lucid only makes 1 car that’s the equivalent of the Model S. That’s like saying Tesla pre-Model 3 is bad. Wait for Lucid’s Model 3
    - panick21_ 4y ago
      Well, I would recommend you go and actually compare the financials of the companies at the time they produced the same amount of vehicles. Seriously, go and actually do the exercise, your mind will be blown.
- scifibestfi 4y ago
  Elon: "Tesla stock price is too high imo"
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Not for long at the present rate. Lucky for Elon that he sold a whole bunch last week.
    - 4y ago
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lkrubner 4y ago
"Tesla has plummeted 56.5% over the past three months through Friday, while the S&P 500 has gained 5.4%" Much of Tesla's value was propped up by the personal brand of Elon Musk. And he has done significant damage to that brand, over the last few months, as he's courted a far-right extremist following. That has changed how most people look at him. Certainly many of the people who buy Tesla's are a bit left-of-center, and don't want to buy from a guy who they perceive as being far-right. The question is why Musk felt the need to be so public with his views. Every single CEO of a car company is a Republican, but they are not so loud about it. Why didn't Musk simply act like other CEOs and keep his conservative politics quiet and somewhat hidden? For a CEO, keeping one's politics hidden is the norm for a good reason. That Musk prioritizes self-expression over good business practices suggests he is currently in a mental space that would be appropriate for an artist but not a CEO. If he wants to engage in self-expression, he has the money that he can retire from his jobs and devote the rest of his life to advocacy. But it's a mistake to combine advocacy with being a CEO.
- panick21_ 4y ago
  Musk simply never thought in terms of the 5D chess that people always accussed him off. He was always just basically saying what he believed. On this free speech issue he simply had logiced himself into incoherent tangle.
  - aniken 4y ago
    Reminds me of the plot in the movie Being There, an absolute classic and highly recommended for anyone who has not see it: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/ It’s deeply philosophical, simple, and humorous at the same time.
grammers 4y ago
Tesla stocks have been overrated; everybody said so. The bubble doesn't pop as long as people believe it keeps growing. Most have stopped believing.
curiousgal 4y ago
This is so pointless. We often make fun of people who obssess over the Kardashians and yet here we are obsessing over everything Musk..
- d23 4y ago
  He has a far bigger impact on society, both potential and realized. And there's still a lot of damage he could (and seems inclined) to do.
  - curiousgal 4y ago
    The world is much much bigger than you think. It might be shocking but Twitter, Tesla, SpaceX, and even PayPal are irrelevant to the daily lives of the vast population of the planet, and they will be for a long time.
    - d23 4y ago
      > The world is much much bigger than you think. This is a condescending, ignorant, and stupid sentence. > It might be shocking but And so is this. > PayPal Ah yes, ecommerce, famously irrelevant to modern society. > Twitter I don't even know where to begin. We live in an information age, and this is one of the largest platforms of disseminating information there is. More importantly, the most prominent journalists in the world rely on Twitter for sharing information. Do you think the Saudis are so hell bent on infiltrating Twitter because it's irrelevant? Why do you think state actors spend so much effort trying to control narratives on social media? And to the larger point: you're saying the richest man in the world and his attempts to mold modern society are irrelevant.
      - curiousgal 4y ago
        The ignorant and condescending sentences you pointed out are true and I only added them because you still seem to be looking at this from an upper class American/European perspective.
shmatt 4y ago
Any other company that missed this many release dates / promises / targets would have crashed faster and stronger. There was always the mystique of the genius knows what he's doing, which has unraveled a bit in the past couple of months
mordae 4y ago
I didn't read the article, but please bear in mind that poor reputation of the primary luxury goods brand ambassador does not, usually, help the brand.
iammjm 4y ago
I can’t be the only one who is rubbed in a very bad way by Musks moronic tweets. The Mad King’s Twitter behaviour seem more and more trumpesque.
- fundad 4y ago
  I ask myself if there actually was an information warfare operation underway, how different would it look?
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    That is a valid question. I wished it wasn't. But here we are. I think that unless someone in the know spills the beans (with proof) this is going to be extremely difficult to determine.
    - nextstep 4y ago
      Can you explain what you mean by information warfare? Do you mean someone is tweeting on his behalf?
      - JoshTko 4y ago
        I think parent is implying that Musk is using Twitter as a misinformation tool. Misinformation about government agencies such as health, SEC, FBI, etc.
- 2sk21 4y ago
  Same here, I started out 2022 with a neutral opinion of him. It could not be any lower now.
Tempest1981 4y ago
This article mentions that people we're buying new Teslas, and quickly selling them used for a profit. Which works if deliveries are slow: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-used-car-price-bubble-pops-weighs-new-car-demand-2022-12-27/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... > Nearly a third of used Teslas for sale in August were 2022 models up for resale, a sign that original buyers were aiming to flip, analysts said. That compares with about 5% of other brands on the used market, research firm Edmunds said. I guess this doesn't impact overall demand, but does push up prices. And feeds the frenzy.
asfgionio2346 4y ago
I find myself confused about the purpose of stock markets. How can we arrange our society around a system that is so massively irrational? A few years ago Tesla was worth as much as the rest of the car industry put together. Even if you believed Tesla was going to become a perfect monopoly, its valuation still would not have been justified. Now people are acting like the sky is falling when this pipsqueak manufacturer is still (supposedly) worth twice as much as Toyota. The most spectacular failure I know of is the case of Twitter. We knew the value of the stock to the penny starting in April of last year, but for months it traded at over a 25% discount. Why do we pretend this system of price discovery works when it can't even discover a price that has been printed in newspapers?
- d23 4y ago
  Vouched for the comment. Not sure why it was flagged. The rationality of the stock market reminds me of the Winston Churchhill quote: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." The market is irrational, but it's based on the best information we have. Admittedly, that information is limited and sucks. Heck, it sucks even if you actually work at a company in question! Even the people there can't be sure what the stock price will do. > We knew the value of the stock to the penny starting in April of last year, but for months it traded at over a 25% discount. Why do we pretend this system of price discovery works when it can't even discover a price that has been printed in newspapers? The answer is clear: the market wasn't confident the sale would go through, for good reason. Musk even tried to back out until he was forced to go through with it. If I recall correctly, things started getting much closer to the sale price once it became clear it was more likely to go through.
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- joewadcan 4y ago
  Markets are irrational in the short term for sure, but very good allocators of capital long term. re: Twitter Price is just the last transaction to clear and the buyers can make that transaction for a million reasons, some of them betting that intrinsically the price doesn't reflect their value of the company. Seems fine to me. Wrong in the short term now looking back, but a million other things may have happened differently (TikTok could have been banned, Musk could have taken over differently, Macro trends could have reversed...etc)
jmyeet 4y ago
Tesla has been (and still is IMHO) overvalued. It is sold as a tech company when really it's just a car company. You compare it to any other car company and it looks horribly overvalued. Last year (at a higher share price) it's valuation was about $800,000 per car they produced that year. That just doesn't make sense. Tesla has been massively propped up by government subsidies and carbon credits, to the point that they tried not to break out their dependence on such things [1]. As more car companies embrace EVs those carbon credits are going to go away and the government subsidies are going to be more spread out. Tesla has had years of over-promising and under-delivering, most recently with the Cybertruck. The Ford F150 Lightning is a dire warning for tesla. It takes a hugely popular truck and makes what seems to be a highly-regarded EV out of it. It remains to be seen if Ford can maintain volume and control costs. But the point remains that the F150 Lightning is real and the Cybertruck isn't. Additionally, Teslas have been plagued with QC and design issues. The seat controls were prone to breaking to the point Tesla issued a software update to disable "excessive" seat adjustments [2] as just one example. And then there's Elon himself. Elon's target market are, bsaically, rich coastal liberals. His politics are alienating his customer base. But here's my favorite part: Elon has done more to dispel the myth of meritocracy than anyone who has come before him. Yes he still has his stans ("D** riders" if you prefer) but there sure seem to be less of them than a year ago. They seem to have been replaced by run-of-the-mill conservatives. Many (including myself) were fooled by SpaceX but it's become increasingly clear that SpaceX succeeded in spite of Elon not because of him. There are a bunch of reports that SpaceX has competent management that has effectively insulated the company from Elon. As an aside, SpaceX too has had problems hitting targets throughout its whole history. This is really breaking the spell of capitalist propaganda. The likes of Elon aren't so rich because they're amazing geniuses. It's really more luck and privilege than anything else. Elon's fumbling of Twitter and desperate need for approval (eg "should I remain as CEO?" followed by "be careful what you wish for" is basically "do you like me?") has been entertaining to watch but at least a few people might stop venerating princelings who have simply failed upwards their entire careers. and that counts for something. [1]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-disclosed-government-credits-profit-only-after-the-SEC-mandated-it-new-documents-show.609779.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-disclosed-government-cre... [2]: https://www.techtimes.com/articles/271257/20220131/tesla-disable-seat-controls-seat-control-excessively-tesla-seat-abuse-tesla-seat-lock-tesla.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/271257/20220131/tesla-dis...
wonderwonder 4y ago
I was not interested in the stock at the highs. I am buying as much as I can currently at this level. Musk has always been a wild card but he can deliver. I wish he had not bought Twitter but it doesn't really change my outlook on Tesla, SpaceX or long-term the boring company. Most of the freak out over Musk is just the left's anger over his views. I just ignore it. Dude is eccentric.
- tigershark 4y ago
  Yeah, obviously alienating the target market for your company will destroy your deliveries and your stock price. Shanghai factory is currently shut down and it will continue the shutdown also in January. The cars are currently sold with a 7500$ discount in US and in other countries. If you think that the carbon-loving maga hats are going to buy EVs you will be nicely surprised in the next months.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    I'm not betting on a massive resurgence until the fed pivots, perhaps 2024? A timeline measured in months is not realistic. Longer term hold. If the price goes down more, then I'll just keep buying (to a point). Seems like a pretty good risk / reward setup for me. Politically I don't divide people into Maga Hats and not Maga hats. I divide them into MAGA hats, the far left and then normal people. The MAGA are on the far right, and there is the far left currently panicking over Musk. I'm betting on the normal people in the middle. Side note, so far the deliveries have been fine. Will have to wait and see on how Q4 went. https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-v...
    - pram 4y ago
      If you think it's going to be a few years until it recovers (I don't disagree) then why are you catching the falling knife right now. Follow your own analysis lol, the time to buy is when its been sideways for a while.
AntiRemoteWork 4y ago
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madballster 4y ago
What I find interesting is nobody complained about Musk's social media antics when he proclaimed himself to be Technoking of Tesla or when he hyped dogecoins with diamond hands. Both evidence of bizarre behavior for a CEO of a multi-billion dollar corporation. But only now - after the stock took the proverbial Acapulco cliff-dive - are investors condemning his 'erratic tweets hurting the stock'.
- neogodless 4y ago
  > nobody complained about Musk's social media antics Source?
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- kemayo 4y ago
  That doesn't seem surprising. When it was still at a "quirky" level, it didn't bother investors or much of the tech community, because it was all excusable as someone blowing off steam in a way that wasn't directly interfering with his work. Some people didn't like it because he was an asshole, but mostly just in a "ugh, that guy" kind of way that didn't interfere with them later deciding to buy a Tesla. Then he bought Twitter, and suddenly his behavior was actively hurting his companies -- Tesla because he had to sell stock which affected prices and because he's tarnishing the brand by going political, and Twitter because he was making erratic decisions that drove away users and advertisers. So investors started to care.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > What I find interesting is nobody complained about Musk’s social media antics when he proclaimed himself to be Technoking of Tesla or when he hyped dogecoins with diamond hands. People have indeed criticized both of those and many of the other things Musk has tweeted before the recent Tesla stock decline, and even the SEC has taken legal action based on ]Musk’s past tweets.
hindsightbias 4y ago
Who needs shortsellers when you’re tripping on ambien. “Last year, Musk tweeted, "A little red wine, vintage record, some Ambien ... and magic!" Sam Altman, the president of startup accelerator Y Combinator, replied: "ambien tweeting is a dangerous game." https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-ambien-use-tesla-board-what-drug-does-2018-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-ambien-use-tesla-b...
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samwillis 4y ago
I believe "Full self drive" is going to be seen as a historical mistake for Tesla, it's a distraction from their core mission. Imagine if they were spending that time and money on developing a smaller cheaper car for the masses, getting more industrial vehicles out (god know why they have not done a traditional Van?). That's is the growth that is needed to justify their market cap. Not some fancy thing that's not relevant or of interest to 90% of the market.
georgeg23 4y ago
1. Chinese government is also pressuring Tesla because Elon has started work on militarizing space with StarShield and other preparation for Strategic Defense Initiative style capabilities in Low Earth Orbit. 2. Elon hasn't gotten much of the money for Strategic Defense Initiative contracts, nor is the entire program progressing much under Biden. He feels the Trump/Santis party, which embraced the project, needs to somehow continue by being boosted on Twitter. This is pretty obvious when you read Chinese Weibo media and SpaceX history with Michael D. Griffin https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career
- kidme5 4y ago
  He's basically a defense contractor now. That can't go over well with China.
blackoil 4y ago
Tesla PE is still high compared to other automakers. So based on growth expectations, it should be between 30-90.
- vardump 4y ago
  Tesla's P/E is about 34 right now. If they had zero growth from 2022 Q3 for a year, then it's P/E be about 26 with the current stock price.
bannedbybros 4y ago
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Gatsky 4y ago
Could be another dotcom era Cisco, which still hasn’t regained it’s peak [1]. Cisco had the biggest market cap in the world for a while. Tesla could be an even worse investment if it ends up being just an overvalued car company. It also has the biggest ‘bus factor’ of any company in SP500 ie. if Musk quits/falls ill the price will likely dive severely. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-much-investing-1-000-125124063.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-much-investing-1-000-12...
- dumbotron 4y ago
  > if Musk quits/falls ill the price will likely dive severely. I could see this going either way. They won't come up with a wild world-changing idea without him, and you might lose some fanboy investors and employees, but a competent manager with auto industry experience would kill/spin off power wall and solar projects, scale back self-driving promises, and fix reliability issues. It'd be a better car company, but a worse dream company.
  - sidibe 4y ago
    Long term that might be better, but it's still priced like a dream company.
Tempest1981 4y ago
It's also interesting that Rivian (RIVN) and Lucid (LCID) stock have been falling in-sync with Tesla -- although maybe at 2/3 the rate. Due to institutional investors? Last week, Ford and GM were also falling, although today they are flat.
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dumbotron 4y ago
It's been a worse year for TSLA than even META, now.
marricks 4y ago
Maybe I missed it, but what I don’t see mentioned in the comments is the biggest change from four years ago: light at the end of the tunnel. Four years ago Tesla was in the throes of model 3 production and had the potential of huge demand once they got going. Where are things now? Other automakers have responded with alternatives. Good ones too, you can buy a Hyundai for a similar price and according to consumer reports, better reliability. What’s on the horizon for Tesla? Trucks and Semis but those aren’t as mass market as model 3, and self driving cars have shown themselves to be… less than feasible.
- joewadcan 4y ago
  Energy products. Megapacks are sold out for 12 months in advance right now and the queue is getting bigger.
- yreg 4y ago
  The next step should be an affordable car (colloquially dubbed model 2). Also TM3 can go much lower with the price. Tesla has the highest margins of all automakers by far.
  - kenhwang 4y ago
    > Tesla has the highest margins of all automakers by far. What an absurd statement. Tesla's is ~30%, which is high but not too far off from the ~20% of Toyota and the Germans (VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes). But that's ignoring Porsche with ~85%.
- TheHappyOddish 4y ago
  > Good ones too, you can buy a Hyundai for a similar price and according to consumer reports, better reliability. I keep seeing this repeated, but I've yet to find a car that can compete in price and range, let alone price, range and features.
DieAgainAli 4y ago
Telsa is not worth the valuation. Just speculation it may be in the future which is bad, stocks are bought on what its worth today. Telsa is valued at the same as all the other manufacturers combined, which is obviously wrong and Elon got a free purchase of a social media company out of it. All a bit bonkers really
faefox 4y ago
I really wonder how Tesla breaks out of this tailspin. For a long time the Tesla name carried a lot of cachet but it's so inextricably linked with Musk's public persona - which is growing more radioactive with every tweet.
jetsnoc 4y ago
Tesla stocks have always been overvalued. The reason why is that people believe in him, his vision and the future sales of Tesla based on him and his vision. It is a luxury brand. A lifestyle. I am proposing the theory that maybe he's lost a little bit of that magic in people believing in him. I could have it all wrong since it is anecdotal evidence of the worst kind - my own. I recently considered purchasing a Tesla Plaid, but ultimately decided against it because I did not want to indirectly support Elon Musk. Instead, I purchased a Porsche. I was in the market for a Luxury car - not necessarily an EV. I used to be a big fan of Musk so much so that I wore the t-shirt ("Occupy Mars.") But, his opinions have become too personally problematic for me to feel comfortable supporting him. I mean it and want that to be absorbed, so I will say it again. His /personal opinions/ have become /too personally problematic/ for me as a consumer to feel comfortable supporting him. I have a personal boycott against him, if you will. I will do away with my Starlink just as soon as Amazon gets Kuiper online. I am concerned that others may feel the same way, which could make it difficult for him to attract and hire talented people. It is unfortunate because I could always see the ~potential~ of Twitter under a visionary capitalist. You see, I am/was also Twitter's biggest fan, I am user-id 11,647 from 2006. I don't know that he can hire the right people, now, to meet that potential. I envision a platform that serves as a forum, creators' storefront, and a place for fans to subscribe and tip content creators. Twitter could grow a lot of these barely tapped markets. With the right moves on the chess-board, I have no doubt in my mind Twitter could rapidly become one of the top three mobile wallets if the cards were played correctly. There are so many ways for Twitter to become an old-fashioned business that takes cash from it's customers which would allow it to diversify out of the advertisement revenue. This would meet his goal of Twitter being a public square for its users not one that is required to appease it's advertisers. It would also ensure the continuity of Twitter. But, I am not convinced he can get THERE from HERE if others feel the same way I do.
- ahahahahah 4y ago
  Tesla plaid is not a luxury car.
  - jetsnoc 4y ago
    I am always willing to correct an error or omission. Could you share more? I was curious if my statement was bias (on my part) or fact so I did a little research and came across the Edmunds quote below. They are basically the consumer reports for vehicle shopping. "The Tesla Model S Plaid is a high-performance luxury electric car that Tesla says pumps out 1,020 horsepower and does 0-60 mph in 1.99 seconds. If all of that sounds impressive, that's because it is." I'm always willing to correct my world-view though so I would love to learn more. I do recognize there are super-luxury cars which a Tesla S is not. Say a Rolls Royce or a Bentley but the little amount I drive there was diminishing returns on that next level of spend on a vehicle.
jacquesm 4y ago
Anybody with a stop loss order at $100 care to chime in? $112.78 at the moment, given the drop so far that's within reach, even today.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zzleeper 4y ago
I kinda hate that I'm "forced" to buy stupid TSLA stock just because, as a responsible adult, I put most of my investments in the SP500, and any alternative I could find that excludes firms I hate (FB, TSLA) has infinitely higher expense ratios :/
- jaredklewis 4y ago
  I read this helpless attitude on a similar thread recently and it boggles my mind. It is not like SPY is the only index fund around. There is a low-cost, well managed ETF for just about every angle on the market these days. So why not invest in a fund that better aligns with your principles? TSLA is ~1% of the SPY, but only 0.04% of FNDX (another large cap fund). It's not like you need to devote your life to picking stocks, but if owning tesla bothers you, making a one time effort to find something you like better than SPY seems like a reasonable move.
quantified 4y ago
Drops out of the 10 most valuable companies, I think.
programmarchy 4y ago
https://archive.vn/6N4On https://archive.vn/6N4On
walrus01 4y ago
Tesla stock chart, 3 month: https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/TSLA/#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- https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/TSLA/#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6ImRheS...
- icepat 4y ago
  If you scale it up over the entire time-series, it's fallen off a cliff.
SkipperCat 4y ago
Going by its P/E, its still overpriced compared to every other car manufacture, but its getting back down to a rational level. Its only 6x Ford and GM and about 4x Toyota.
- bink 4y ago
  I always used to laugh when people would bring up battery tech and solar when talking about TSLA's absurd valuation, but I think it's starting to become more relevant as it approaches a more realistic market cap. It's still too high though.
  - justapassenger 4y ago
    Their solar is shrinking/stagnating for years and it’s not a high margin business for a start - competition is brutal. It’s utility at the core - they always operate on razor thin margins. For batteries, they still mostly just buy from suppliers.
  - SkipperCat 4y ago
    Yeah, if it was 2x or 3x Ford, I'd consider it a stronger buy. I think the real test will not be its P/E, but how the other big car companies debut their EV and driver-assist (or driverless) tech. It just feels like Tesla is still the market leader in that tech. If someone else beats them at that game, it would not be good for their stock price. But, conversely, if they stay on top, maybe that high valuation will stick around.
    - TylerE 4y ago
      Uh, they already have debuted, and not even this year
      - kspacewalk2 4y ago
        And yet Tesla is still the market leader.
seydor 4y ago
after tesla deflates, who s next
- givemeethekeys 4y ago
  There are a handful of large tech companies with high PE’s. All names that we are all very familiar with. All good businesses, but overvalued.
- programmarchy 4y ago
  Most of the big tech companies have 5-year charts similar to Tesla. The exception is Apple. Are they immune?
- kspacewalk2 4y ago
  Apple.
- Animats 4y ago
  First, the giant money-losers - WeWork, Uber, etc. Tesla has an advantage in electric cars in that they don't make IC cars. The IC car companies seem to have a hard time transitioning to electric-first. Ford has a nice electric pickup truck, which costs far too much and isn't produced in enough quantity to meet demand. Their electric work van is OK, although it's an IC conversion. Ford will probably do both better in the next iteration. Both are selling well. Tesla has nothing in either category. Ford's utterly boring E-Transit van will probably dominate the dull and boring world of company owned van fleets. Those spend their nights at the company parking lot and then go out and make local trips during the day. Ideal situation for charging, paid for by companies who know their gasoline costs.
JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago
It's time to fire the CEO. Musk is like the Manager who brought a club from 3rd division to the Premier League, but he was paid spectacularly and the club doesn't owe him nothing more than a fair handshake and a great send-off with a guaranteed spot in the club HOF. It's time to thank him and bring in an adult who can guarantee a top-4 Champions League spot consistently season after season, otherwise the club will follow the manager on his descending arc down to 3rd Division again.
- alzaeem 4y ago
  But then Eddie Howe moved to Newcastle and is on track to get them into the coveted Champions League spots... Is that a risk you wish to take?
  - Ar-Curunir 4y ago
    Elon Musk is not at risk of taking anything anywhere.
  - notahacker 4y ago
    But Elon has already moved on mentally and is currently on track to get Twitter relegated as well so I'm not sure we need to worry about what he could do with TSLA if it received unlimited funding from Saudi Arabia (hmm... more overlap in the analogy than I thought!) I don't think a regular CEO is going to be able to restore the reality distortion field that got TSLA overvalued by that much in the first place, but they might at least look interested in selling cars.
    - JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago
      > > I don't think a regular CEO is going to be able to restore the reality distortion field that got TSLA overvalued by that much in the first place, but they might at least look interested in selling cars. Problem is that selling cars is a much tougher business than selling hope.
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
remote_phone 4y ago
I’ve been short since $300. I predicted $100 but now I think it could hit $68. We shall see!
- roflyear 4y ago
  Congrats!
- dragontamer 4y ago
  If you're currently making $200 a share, why would you risk your $200 profits to chase another $30 to $40 bucks/share? I say, just take your win and go home. Close out your short and buy yourself a nice dinner. You deserve it. EDIT: Maybe hold onto a few shorts for fun. But if you're already winning this hard, you really should just take profits. Its not like you can get much more profits out of this.
  - remote_phone 4y ago
    Thanks but I really don’t need advice, I’ve been doing this for a while now. I scale in and out of all my trades, I’ve booked a lot of my profits at this point.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    Other than tax differences (minor and mostly not applicable on the short side), I think that’s the wrong way to think about trades. If you have reason to invest on the thesis that the stock will go down to $68 from $109, being short from $105, $150, or $300 is all the same at this point.
  - bb88 4y ago
    P/E is still 33 as we head into a recession, and Musk continues to anger the traditional customer base that cares about environmental issues. He might make up with Maga republicans, but many of them want a Ford Pickup. We'll see what the 4th Quarter holds but it's still possible that EPS will grow and the price will still tank as it becomes clear that the market becomes saturated with Elon's big ego. Even $68 is would mean a P/E of around 20 which is still ~3 times higher than Ford's.
petilon 4y ago
Musk confronted Bill Gates for shorting Tesla [1] then proceeded to sell tons of TSLA himself. What a hypocrite! He is still selling TSLA, most recent sale was 12 days ago for $3.6 billion. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/23/elon-musk-tweets-that-he-confronted-bill-gates-about-shorting-tesla.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/23/elon-musk-tweets-that-he-con...
- andirk 4y ago
  Dude overplayed his troll hand and now he's selling off his cool company to shore up funds for his troll company.
- thrashh 4y ago
  Musk is a regular person but now with a butt load of money. It means he’s gonna be all over the place, but with money Scary
  - d23 4y ago
    I don’t think your average Joe at the convenience store is nearly as erratic as Musk.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
StephenAmar 4y ago
Lost 2 Twitter worth since Musk took over.
kvee 4y ago
Short term we may see the price drop a lot, but long term it's never a great idea to bet against Elon Musk
- stonogo 4y ago
  Why not? It worked great for X.com.
- oxfordmale 4y ago
  There is a difference in betting against Elon Musk and betting against Tesla. Tesla's stock price has been hyped up for a long time now. It all depends on FSD and that isn't going too well so far.
s5300 4y ago
[flagged]
Animats 4y ago
By market cap. Not sales, or revenue, or number of employees, or profits.
- dkarras 4y ago
  but the old prices were not about revenue, or number of employees or profits either.
alkonaut 4y ago
How is Musk still allowed to be CEO? Serious question. Why don’t large shareholders demand some fresh blood?
- concordDance 4y ago
  Because without the remnants of the Musk-hype it'll be worth even less than the current amount, maybe 2x Ford. Investing in Tesla was, for many people, investing in Musk and his vision.
- TigeriusKirk 4y ago
  Tesla without Musk hype would be worth much less than it is even now.
- sonotathrowaway 4y ago
  Tesla’s Board of Directors values their friendships with Musk over their fiduciary duties or corporate governance.
- redox99 4y ago
  Because actual shareholders read the financial statements, and therefore know how impressive Musk's performance has been so far, unlike people that literally haven't read further than the P/E. Of course maybe Q4 and future quarters may change that, but there's no reason yet for shareholders to want another CEO.
  - Volundr 4y ago
    So why are "actual shareholders" selling?
    - redox99 4y ago
      That's just the stock market, I wouldn't read too much into it. Wait for Q4 earnings to draw any real conclusion based on actual performance and not stock market price. But to address your question, it's completely compatible to think both that a) TSLA is overvalued b) Elon is the best CEO Tesla could have
thrashh 4y ago
In my opinion, the valuation of Tesla was reasonable based on the fact that they were making strides in driving AI But at the time, humans did not yet know that FSD seems to be un-achievable with a non-general AI. At least with current techniques. People invested Tesla thinking something was possible and it turns out it isn’t. It happens
- sidibe 4y ago
  Everyone in the industry has always known Tesla wasn't close. And current AI seems to be good enough for what Waymo and Cruise are aiming for. Despite years of dominating the headlines, the problem is Tesla was investing way less in research than the leaders and then tying both hands behind their backs with no Lidar and HD maps. I also think not trying to really master even a geofenced area is making them kick the can down the road on the thorny problems
  - kenhwang 4y ago
    It was immediately obvious when Tesla was far behind traditional approaches for auto headlights, wipers, and self-parking and refused to deviate from their AI-only approach.
- justapassenger 4y ago
  People invested in Tesla because Musk openly lied countless times about state of their technology. Everyone who had any serous experience with AI knew he was lying. This is how I became Elon sceptic, as I know thing or two about AI, and when he announced FSD I knew it was fraud.
concordDance 4y ago
Coming down to more sensible levels. Though it's still only fallen a bit more than the other tech stocks like Netflix, Amazon and Meta: https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/TSLA/#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6ImRheSIsInBlcmlvZGljaXR5IjoxLCJ0aW1lVW5pdCI6bnVsbCwiY2FuZGxlV2lkdGgiOjEuMjA1NTMzNTk2ODM3OTQ0NiwiZmxpcHBlZCI6ZmFsc2UsInZvbHVtZVVuZGVybGF5Ijp0cnVlLCJhZGoiOnRydWUsImNyb3NzaGFpciI6dHJ1ZSwiY2hhcnRUeXBlIjoibGluZSIsImV4dGVuZGVkIjpmYWxzZSwibWFya2V0U2Vzc2lvbnMiOnt9LCJhZ2dyZWdhdGlvblR5cGUiOiJvaGxjIiwiY2hhcnRTY2FsZSI6InBlcmNlbnQiLCJwYW5lbHMiOnsiY2hhcnQiOnsicGVyY2VudCI6MSwiZGlzcGxheSI6IlRTTEEiLCJjaGFydE5hbWUiOiJjaGFydCIsImluZGV4IjowLCJ5QXhpcyI6eyJuYW1lIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJwb3NpdGlvbiI6bnVsbH0sInlheGlzTEhTIjpbXSwieWF4aXNSSFMiOlsiY2hhcnQiLCLigIx2b2wgdW5kcuKAjCJdfX0sInNldFNwYW4iOnsibXVsdGlwbGllciI6MSwiYmFzZSI6InllYXIiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6eyJwZXJpb2QiOjEsImludGVydmFsIjoiZGF5In19LCJsaW5lV2lkdGgiOjIsInN0cmlwZWRCYWNrZ3JvdW5kIjp0cnVlLCJldmVudHMiOnRydWUsImNvbG9yIjoiIzAwODFmMiIsInN0cmlwZWRCYWNrZ3JvdWQiOnRydWUsImV2ZW50TWFwIjp7ImNvcnBvcmF0ZSI6eyJkaXZzIjp0cnVlLCJzcGxpdHMiOnRydWV9LCJzaWdEZXYiOnt9fSwic3ltYm9scyI6W3sic3ltYm9sIjoiVFNMQSIsInN5bWJvbE9iamVjdCI6eyJzeW1ib2wiOiJUU0xBIiwicXVvdGVUeXBlIjoiRVFVSVRZIiwiZXhjaGFuZ2VUaW1lWm9uZSI6IkFtZXJpY2EvTmV3X1lvcmsifSwicGVyaW9kaWNpdHkiOjEsImludGVydmFsIjoiZGF5IiwidGltZVVuaXQiOm51bGwsInNldFNwYW4iOnsibXVsdGlwbGllciI6MSwiYmFzZSI6InllYXIiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6eyJwZXJpb2QiOjEsImludGVydmFsIjoiZGF5In19fSx7InN5bWJvbCI6Ik5GTFgiLCJzeW1ib2xPYmplY3QiOnsic3ltYm9sIjoiTkZMWCJ9LCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6MSwiaW50ZXJ2YWwiOiJkYXkiLCJ0aW1lVW5pdCI6bnVsbCwic2V0U3BhbiI6eyJtdWx0aXBsaWVyIjoxLCJiYXNlIjoieWVhciIsInBlcmlvZGljaXR5Ijp7InBlcmlvZCI6MSwiaW50ZXJ2YWwiOiJkYXkifX0sImlkIjoiTkZMWCIsInBhcmFtZXRlcnMiOnsiY29sb3IiOiIjMWFjNTY3IiwiaXNDb21wYXJpc29uIjp0cnVlLCJzaGFyZVlBeGlzIjp0cnVlLCJjaGFydE5hbWUiOiJjaGFydCIsInN5bWJvbE9iamVjdCI6eyJzeW1ib2wiOiJORkxYIn0sInBhbmVsIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJmaWxsR2FwcyI6ZmFsc2UsImFjdGlvbiI6ImFkZC1zZXJpZXMiLCJzeW1ib2wiOiJORkxYIiwiZ2FwRGlzcGxheVN0eWxlIjoidHJhbnNwYXJlbnQiLCJuYW1lIjoiTkZMWCIsIm92ZXJDaGFydCI6dHJ1ZSwidXNlQ2hhcnRMZWdlbmQiOnRydWUsImhlaWdodFBlcmNlbnRhZ2UiOjAuNywib3BhY2l0eSI6MSwiaGlnaGxpZ2h0YWJsZSI6dHJ1ZSwidHlwZSI6ImxpbmUiLCJzdHlsZSI6InN0eF9saW5lX2NoYXJ0In19LHsic3ltYm9sIjoiQU1aTiIsInN5bWJvbE9iamVjdCI6eyJzeW1ib2wiOiJBTVpOIn0sInBlcmlvZGljaXR5IjoxLCJpbnRlcnZhbCI6ImRheSIsInRpbWVVbml0IjpudWxsLCJzZXRTcGFuIjp7Im11bHRpcGxpZXIiOjEsImJhc2UiOiJ5ZWFyIiwicGVyaW9kaWNpdHkiOnsicGVyaW9kIjoxLCJpbnRlcnZhbCI6ImRheSJ9fSwiaWQiOiJBTVpOIiwicGFyYW1ldGVycyI6eyJjb2xvciI6IiNmMDEyNmYiLCJpc0NvbXBhcmlzb24iOnRydWUsInNoYXJlWUF4aXMiOnRydWUsImNoYXJ0TmFtZSI6ImNoYXJ0Iiwic3ltYm9sT2JqZWN0Ijp7InN5bWJvbCI6IkFNWk4ifSwicGFuZWwiOiJjaGFydCIsImZpbGxHYXBzIjpmYWxzZSwiYWN0aW9uIjoiYWRkLXNlcmllcyIsInN5bWJvbCI6IkFNWk4iLCJnYXBEaXNwbGF5U3R5bGUiOiJ0cmFuc3BhcmVudCIsIm5hbWUiOiJBTVpOIiwib3ZlckNoYXJ0Ijp0cnVlLCJ1c2VDaGFydExlZ2VuZCI6dHJ1ZSwiaGVpZ2h0UGVyY2VudGFnZSI6MC43LCJvcGFjaXR5IjoxLCJoaWdobGlnaHRhYmxlIjp0cnVlLCJ0eXBlIjoibGluZSIsInN0eWxlIjoic3R4X2xpbmVfY2hhcnQifX0seyJzeW1ib2wiOiJNRVRBIiwic3ltYm9sT2JqZWN0Ijp7InN5bWJvbCI6Ik1FVEEifSwicGVyaW9kaWNpdHkiOjEsImludGVydmFsIjoiZGF5IiwidGltZVVuaXQiOm51bGwsInNldFNwYW4iOnsibXVsdGlwbGllciI6MSwiYmFzZSI6InllYXIiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6eyJwZXJpb2QiOjEsImludGVydmFsIjoiZGF5In19LCJpZCI6Ik1FVEEiLCJwYXJhbWV0ZXJzIjp7ImNvbG9yIjoiIzk1NTJmZiIsImlzQ29tcGFyaXNvbiI6dHJ1ZSwic2hhcmVZQXhpcyI6dHJ1ZSwiY2hhcnROYW1lIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJzeW1ib2xPYmplY3QiOnsic3ltYm9sIjoiTUVUQSJ9LCJwYW5lbCI6ImNoYXJ0IiwiZmlsbEdhcHMiOmZhbHNlLCJhY3Rpb24iOiJhZGQtc2VyaWVzIiwic3ltYm9sIjoiTUVUQSIsImdhcERpc3BsYXlTdHlsZSI6InRyYW5zcGFyZW50IiwibmFtZSI6Ik1FVEEiLCJvdmVyQ2hhcnQiOnRydWUsInVzZUNoYXJ0TGVnZW5kIjp0cnVlLCJoZWlnaHRQZXJjZW50YWdlIjowLjcsIm9wYWNpdHkiOjEsImhpZ2hsaWdodGFibGUiOnRydWUsInR5cGUiOiJsaW5lIiwic3R5bGUiOiJzdHhfbGluZV9jaGFydCJ9fV0sImN1c3RvbVJhbmdlIjpudWxsLCJzdHVkaWVzIjp7IuKAjHZvbCB1bmRy4oCMIjp7InR5cGUiOiJ2b2wgdW5kciIsImlucHV0cyI6eyJpZCI6IuKAjHZvbCB1bmRy4oCMIiwiZGlzcGxheSI6IuKAjHZvbCB1bmRy4oCMIn0sIm91dHB1dHMiOnsiVXAgVm9sdW1lIjoiIzAwYjA2MSIsIkRvd24gVm9sdW1lIjoiI2ZmMzMzYSJ9LCJwYW5lbCI6ImNoYXJ0IiwicGFyYW1ldGVycyI6eyJ3aWR0aEZhY3RvciI6MC40NSwiY2hhcnROYW1lIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJwYW5lbE5hbWUiOiJjaGFydCJ9fX19 https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/TSLA/#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6ImRheS...

141 points by davidbarker 4y ago

Remember, narrative follows the price. I've never touched the stock because it's been a very, very, very overpriced stock for a while. If it came down to a reasonable multiple, only then would I consider buying it.

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
Narrative can definitely shape price at least in the short/medium term.

andrewmcwatters 4y ago

Probably closer to fair value now, still overpriced though.

friedman23 4y ago
Funny enough I think it's actually undervalued now. Tesla has bought up all the mining rights for the minerals required to ramp up battery production and will likely be the only EV manufacturer that's not supply constrained for the next decade. I'm still not bought in yet, probably a lot more room for it to crater.
- tony_cannistra 4y ago
  They have?
  - amluto 4y ago
    The latest news seems to suggest that companies like CATL are, and will continue to be, the battery leaders. I imagine that CATL will gladly sell to anyone who wants to buy.
  - ulfw 4y ago
    Of course they haven't bought 'all the mining rights'.
- modo_mario 4y ago
  Do you happen to have a source for that? It hasn't been long since Musk outed that they'd consider mining so i'm sceptical.
- andrewmcwatters 4y ago
  Might be actually, I didn't actually look at the DCF. Just eyeballing their PE and their growth didn't make it attractive enough to me. I feel like it should be abundantly clear.
  - ijidak 4y ago
    Where do you check DCF? I had to build my own Excel spreadsheet for this. But I would love to find a place where they've already done this for me!
    - andrewmcwatters 4y ago
      GuruFocus might be OK. I haven't checked their DCF methodology, but my guess is they probably get it right.
- yreg 4y ago
  TSLA P/E: 36 AMZN P/E: 75 MCD P/E: 34
- victor106 4y ago
  > Tesla has bought up all the mining rights for the minerals required to ramp up battery production Source?
  - awacs 4y ago
    I have to say, I didn't realize how strong Hydrogen powered vehicles are right now in development. That could be a legit competitor soon if they work out some of the smaller kinks and develop a fueling network. Literally zero fueling time, much less lithium in the manufacturing process and a closer feel to traditional ICE.
    - akmarinov 4y ago
      But the efficiency of taking power to make the hydrogen into liquid form only to make it back into electricity later on is horrible. Also with a BEV if you have solar, you can literally fuel your car for free. Why bother with hydrogen?
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  > EV manufacturer that's not supply constrained for the next decade Ok, since it didn't make the news, I'm completely on the dark here... but are you talking about the supply of lithium? If so, I have some news to you about one of the most common metals on Earth's surface.
  - friedman23 4y ago
    It's not just lithium and none of this is as simple as you imagine it to be.
    - marcosdumay 4y ago
      So it is lithium. If you don't tell what you want to say, I'm pretty comfortable to keep assuming the details are all wrong. And yes, it's a simple algorithm. Yet it seems to work quite well.
  - NovaVeles 4y ago
    Lithium is widely known about, the real challenge is getting it. I'm not worried about the abundance of lithium, it is the speed at which we can get it that is the issue. One can still have a shortage even if there is an abundance of potential materials. And starting new mines is a long process. The quickest I have ever seen a decent mine come online from initial approval is 8 years. Materials we should worry about long term in terms of total volume would be stuff like Cobalt, Nickle and Graphite. But not in the next decade. A big part of the whole issue of mining is something I always have to bring up to some folks. There are four ways to categorize in which a material is available. The is the resource, how much we theorize is available. Lithium is a great example, there is loads of the stuff. There are the reserves, how much we actually know exists. Where it is, what grades etc. This is always lower than the resource. There is if it is technically extract able. Do we have the technology to get it out? What good is a reserve if it is 200KM under ground? The total of this is always less than the reserves. And finally, what is economically viable. Say we can still get the materials, are people willing to pay for it? This is my big argument against mining asteroids. This is always less than what is technically extract able. Once you past through those 4 gates then we can start talking. Don't just talk strategy, talk logistics. It is boring an dirty but it is were the rubber meets the road. The abundance argument is the same used for silicon and solar panels. Yes it is everywhere but there is a reason we mine quartz rather than just boiling up random patches of dirt to get the stuff.
- samwillis 4y ago
  I don't really believe this narrative. Mineral rights are so easily effected by geopolitics the "rights" they have brought could easily be worthless in two years time. I'm also unconvinced that we should be 100% in on only lithium for BEVs, it's important to have multiple technologies. Just look as traditional ICE cars, we have Petrol and Diesel. I see Lithium as the Petrol of BEVs, what's the Diesel going to be?
  - dumbotron 4y ago
    Normally I don't give Elon much credit, but mineral rights in third-world countries should be something he actually knows.
- joewadcan 4y ago
  Same. but not for the reason of mining rights. They definitely have long term contracts for their own production secured but are a long ways from cornering that market. I think the energy side of their business is about to grow tremendously and they'll reduce profit margin and continue growing crazy fast on the auto side.

nextstep 4y ago

Some of this can be blamed on the production issues in China and maybe Musk's tweets courting far-right provocateurs, but Tesla was always massively over-valued and this is just things coming back down to reality. Probably still a ways to go as the Cyber Truck and the Semi are likely to disappoint and/or be further delayed.

Robotbeat 4y ago
I think Semi is underestimated at this point. E needs to quit Twitter and get back to his real job. There’s massive value in the Semi line, but it probably needs a big push (like with Model 3) to get it ramped up (including battery capacity). This IS a bad time for ramping production, though, as interest rates are higher.

paulpauper 4y ago

Also, notably META is very strong recently. Same for Netflix. Shows how the whims of market are always changing.

skizm 4y ago
Eh, they're not in freefall any more. Very strong is probably an overstatement since they're still down over 65% YTD and even more from ATHs. I'm a big Meta (stock) fan though. I think they're insanely undervalued at the moment (says the guy holding a bunch of their stock that's down close to 50% all together lol)
- rubicon33 4y ago
  Why do you think they are “insanely” undervalued?
  - ctvo 4y ago
    Because their advertising business is still wildly profitable even with the ad tracking changes. If they continue to reduce costs and stop investing in the metaverse they’re a great company. Now, add in TikTok potentially being banned in the US and you can see their social media apps being even stronger positioned.
  - skizm 4y ago
    #1 reason is because they're running WhatsApp, a 2 billion+ MAU service, and not monetizing it at all right now. Hypothetically a single text ad on the home screen would add billions to their bottom line overnight. #2 reason is because their core products have staying power. They've lived through twitter, snapchat, pintrest, a ton of other smaller social networks, and are still wildly profitable. I fully anticipate they'll outlive (or at least co-exist with) tiktok in the long run and do fine. #3 is "the metaverse" has like a 0.1% chance to make trillions of dollars if it works out like they think. Worst (and most likely) case is that it fails, but it isn't like they bet on something that destroyed their core business. They can just stop investing at any time really and add another $10B in profit. Even after their investments in "the metaverse" they're still pulling in nearly $30B in profit on $120B in revenue. Obviously if I knew the future I'd be rich already, but that's my 2 cents. shrug

CharlesW 4y ago

From https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050 https://twitter.com/BriannaWu/status/1607719007892738050, written while Tesla was at $123.15: While the markets have been closed, two major stories about Tesla have broken. A. Tesla is shutting down factories because demand is plummeting. B. Musk praised a truly insane Russian propaganda tweet, predicting the fall of the west She expects Tesla to fall below $100 by 1/1. It seems notable that the price of used Telsas has fallen 15%+ since August as well, which is about double the trend for used car prices in general: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Tesla-m112 https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Tesla-m112

Waterluvian 4y ago
I think B only matters as a signal of leadership instability. And I think it tells us nothing new about Mr. Musk that we didn't already know. So I think B is probably not really a factor. A is plenty enough to explain the market behaviour.
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  Wait, you guys know that was a joke, right? Is it okay to not do due diligence on claims because we don’t like a guy? (Which isn’t to say it makes the market feel better, but come on…)
  - the_snooze 4y ago
    If he wants to joke, he should give up the CEO's office for a clown gig.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      And then he can use as much drugs as he wants without it introducing new and interesting avenues for geopolitical instability.
      - Waterluvian 4y ago

hericium 4y ago

$LCID down 70%. Elon: "they are not long for this world" $TSLA down 70%. Elon: "unfavorable market conditions"

vardump 4y ago
It'd make more sense to compare cash flow. Stock price doesn't necessarily say much about companies' survival prospects.
panick21_ 4y ago
LCID barley less any vehicles, and is losing billions, has bad automotive margin. Tesla, is growing, has leading margin, made 3 billion $ last quarter. Totally comparable.
- akmarinov 4y ago
  I mean Lucid only makes 1 car that’s the equivalent of the Model S. That’s like saying Tesla pre-Model 3 is bad. Wait for Lucid’s Model 3
  - panick21_ 4y ago
    Well, I would recommend you go and actually compare the financials of the companies at the time they produced the same amount of vehicles. Seriously, go and actually do the exercise, your mind will be blown.
scifibestfi 4y ago
Elon: "Tesla stock price is too high imo"
- jacquesm 4y ago
  Not for long at the present rate. Lucky for Elon that he sold a whole bunch last week.
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lkrubner 4y ago

"Tesla has plummeted 56.5% over the past three months through Friday, while the S&P 500 has gained 5.4%" Much of Tesla's value was propped up by the personal brand of Elon Musk. And he has done significant damage to that brand, over the last few months, as he's courted a far-right extremist following. That has changed how most people look at him. Certainly many of the people who buy Tesla's are a bit left-of-center, and don't want to buy from a guy who they perceive as being far-right. The question is why Musk felt the need to be so public with his views. Every single CEO of a car company is a Republican, but they are not so loud about it. Why didn't Musk simply act like other CEOs and keep his conservative politics quiet and somewhat hidden? For a CEO, keeping one's politics hidden is the norm for a good reason. That Musk prioritizes self-expression over good business practices suggests he is currently in a mental space that would be appropriate for an artist but not a CEO. If he wants to engage in self-expression, he has the money that he can retire from his jobs and devote the rest of his life to advocacy. But it's a mistake to combine advocacy with being a CEO.

panick21_ 4y ago
Musk simply never thought in terms of the 5D chess that people always accussed him off. He was always just basically saying what he believed. On this free speech issue he simply had logiced himself into incoherent tangle.
- aniken 4y ago
  Reminds me of the plot in the movie Being There, an absolute classic and highly recommended for anyone who has not see it: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/ It’s deeply philosophical, simple, and humorous at the same time.

grammers 4y ago

Tesla stocks have been overrated; everybody said so. The bubble doesn't pop as long as people believe it keeps growing. Most have stopped believing.

curiousgal 4y ago

This is so pointless. We often make fun of people who obssess over the Kardashians and yet here we are obsessing over everything Musk..

d23 4y ago
He has a far bigger impact on society, both potential and realized. And there's still a lot of damage he could (and seems inclined) to do.
- curiousgal 4y ago
  The world is much much bigger than you think. It might be shocking but Twitter, Tesla, SpaceX, and even PayPal are irrelevant to the daily lives of the vast population of the planet, and they will be for a long time.
  - d23 4y ago
    > The world is much much bigger than you think. This is a condescending, ignorant, and stupid sentence. > It might be shocking but And so is this. > PayPal Ah yes, ecommerce, famously irrelevant to modern society. > Twitter I don't even know where to begin. We live in an information age, and this is one of the largest platforms of disseminating information there is. More importantly, the most prominent journalists in the world rely on Twitter for sharing information. Do you think the Saudis are so hell bent on infiltrating Twitter because it's irrelevant? Why do you think state actors spend so much effort trying to control narratives on social media? And to the larger point: you're saying the richest man in the world and his attempts to mold modern society are irrelevant.
    - curiousgal 4y ago
      The ignorant and condescending sentences you pointed out are true and I only added them because you still seem to be looking at this from an upper class American/European perspective.

shmatt 4y ago

Any other company that missed this many release dates / promises / targets would have crashed faster and stronger. There was always the mystique of the genius knows what he's doing, which has unraveled a bit in the past couple of months

mordae 4y ago

I didn't read the article, but please bear in mind that poor reputation of the primary luxury goods brand ambassador does not, usually, help the brand.

iammjm 4y ago

I can’t be the only one who is rubbed in a very bad way by Musks moronic tweets. The Mad King’s Twitter behaviour seem more and more trumpesque.

fundad 4y ago
I ask myself if there actually was an information warfare operation underway, how different would it look?
- jacquesm 4y ago
  That is a valid question. I wished it wasn't. But here we are. I think that unless someone in the know spills the beans (with proof) this is going to be extremely difficult to determine.
  - nextstep 4y ago
    Can you explain what you mean by information warfare? Do you mean someone is tweeting on his behalf?
    - JoshTko 4y ago
      I think parent is implying that Musk is using Twitter as a misinformation tool. Misinformation about government agencies such as health, SEC, FBI, etc.
2sk21 4y ago
Same here, I started out 2022 with a neutral opinion of him. It could not be any lower now.

Tempest1981 4y ago

This article mentions that people we're buying new Teslas, and quickly selling them used for a profit. Which works if deliveries are slow: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-used-car-price-bubble-pops-weighs-new-car-demand-2022-12-27/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-... > Nearly a third of used Teslas for sale in August were 2022 models up for resale, a sign that original buyers were aiming to flip, analysts said. That compares with about 5% of other brands on the used market, research firm Edmunds said. I guess this doesn't impact overall demand, but does push up prices. And feeds the frenzy.

asfgionio2346 4y ago

I find myself confused about the purpose of stock markets. How can we arrange our society around a system that is so massively irrational? A few years ago Tesla was worth as much as the rest of the car industry put together. Even if you believed Tesla was going to become a perfect monopoly, its valuation still would not have been justified. Now people are acting like the sky is falling when this pipsqueak manufacturer is still (supposedly) worth twice as much as Toyota. The most spectacular failure I know of is the case of Twitter. We knew the value of the stock to the penny starting in April of last year, but for months it traded at over a 25% discount. Why do we pretend this system of price discovery works when it can't even discover a price that has been printed in newspapers?

d23 4y ago
Vouched for the comment. Not sure why it was flagged. The rationality of the stock market reminds me of the Winston Churchhill quote: "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others." The market is irrational, but it's based on the best information we have. Admittedly, that information is limited and sucks. Heck, it sucks even if you actually work at a company in question! Even the people there can't be sure what the stock price will do. > We knew the value of the stock to the penny starting in April of last year, but for months it traded at over a 25% discount. Why do we pretend this system of price discovery works when it can't even discover a price that has been printed in newspapers? The answer is clear: the market wasn't confident the sale would go through, for good reason. Musk even tried to back out until he was forced to go through with it. If I recall correctly, things started getting much closer to the sale price once it became clear it was more likely to go through.
- deleted 4y ago
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joewadcan 4y ago
Markets are irrational in the short term for sure, but very good allocators of capital long term. re: Twitter Price is just the last transaction to clear and the buyers can make that transaction for a million reasons, some of them betting that intrinsically the price doesn't reflect their value of the company. Seems fine to me. Wrong in the short term now looking back, but a million other things may have happened differently (TikTok could have been banned, Musk could have taken over differently, Macro trends could have reversed...etc)

jmyeet 4y ago

Tesla has been (and still is IMHO) overvalued. It is sold as a tech company when really it's just a car company. You compare it to any other car company and it looks horribly overvalued. Last year (at a higher share price) it's valuation was about $800,000 per car they produced that year. That just doesn't make sense. Tesla has been massively propped up by government subsidies and carbon credits, to the point that they tried not to break out their dependence on such things [1]. As more car companies embrace EVs those carbon credits are going to go away and the government subsidies are going to be more spread out. Tesla has had years of over-promising and under-delivering, most recently with the Cybertruck. The Ford F150 Lightning is a dire warning for tesla. It takes a hugely popular truck and makes what seems to be a highly-regarded EV out of it. It remains to be seen if Ford can maintain volume and control costs. But the point remains that the F150 Lightning is real and the Cybertruck isn't. Additionally, Teslas have been plagued with QC and design issues. The seat controls were prone to breaking to the point Tesla issued a software update to disable "excessive" seat adjustments [2] as just one example. And then there's Elon himself. Elon's target market are, bsaically, rich coastal liberals. His politics are alienating his customer base. But here's my favorite part: Elon has done more to dispel the myth of meritocracy than anyone who has come before him. Yes he still has his stans ("D** riders" if you prefer) but there sure seem to be less of them than a year ago. They seem to have been replaced by run-of-the-mill conservatives. Many (including myself) were fooled by SpaceX but it's become increasingly clear that SpaceX succeeded in spite of Elon not because of him. There are a bunch of reports that SpaceX has competent management that has effectively insulated the company from Elon. As an aside, SpaceX too has had problems hitting targets throughout its whole history. This is really breaking the spell of capitalist propaganda. The likes of Elon aren't so rich because they're amazing geniuses. It's really more luck and privilege than anything else. Elon's fumbling of Twitter and desperate need for approval (eg "should I remain as CEO?" followed by "be careful what you wish for" is basically "do you like me?") has been entertaining to watch but at least a few people might stop venerating princelings who have simply failed upwards their entire careers. and that counts for something. [1]: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-disclosed-government-credits-profit-only-after-the-SEC-mandated-it-new-documents-show.609779.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Tesla-disclosed-government-cre... [2]: https://www.techtimes.com/articles/271257/20220131/tesla-disable-seat-controls-seat-control-excessively-tesla-seat-abuse-tesla-seat-lock-tesla.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/271257/20220131/tesla-dis...

wonderwonder 4y ago

I was not interested in the stock at the highs. I am buying as much as I can currently at this level. Musk has always been a wild card but he can deliver. I wish he had not bought Twitter but it doesn't really change my outlook on Tesla, SpaceX or long-term the boring company. Most of the freak out over Musk is just the left's anger over his views. I just ignore it. Dude is eccentric.

tigershark 4y ago
Yeah, obviously alienating the target market for your company will destroy your deliveries and your stock price. Shanghai factory is currently shut down and it will continue the shutdown also in January. The cars are currently sold with a 7500$ discount in US and in other countries. If you think that the carbon-loving maga hats are going to buy EVs you will be nicely surprised in the next months.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  I'm not betting on a massive resurgence until the fed pivots, perhaps 2024? A timeline measured in months is not realistic. Longer term hold. If the price goes down more, then I'll just keep buying (to a point). Seems like a pretty good risk / reward setup for me. Politically I don't divide people into Maga Hats and not Maga hats. I divide them into MAGA hats, the far left and then normal people. The MAGA are on the far right, and there is the far left currently panicking over Musk. I'm betting on the normal people in the middle. Side note, so far the deliveries have been fine. Will have to wait and see on how Q4 went. https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-v...
  - pram 4y ago
    If you think it's going to be a few years until it recovers (I don't disagree) then why are you catching the falling knife right now. Follow your own analysis lol, the time to buy is when its been sideways for a while.

AntiRemoteWork 4y ago

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madballster 4y ago

What I find interesting is nobody complained about Musk's social media antics when he proclaimed himself to be Technoking of Tesla or when he hyped dogecoins with diamond hands. Both evidence of bizarre behavior for a CEO of a multi-billion dollar corporation. But only now - after the stock took the proverbial Acapulco cliff-dive - are investors condemning his 'erratic tweets hurting the stock'.

neogodless 4y ago
> nobody complained about Musk's social media antics Source?
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kemayo 4y ago
That doesn't seem surprising. When it was still at a "quirky" level, it didn't bother investors or much of the tech community, because it was all excusable as someone blowing off steam in a way that wasn't directly interfering with his work. Some people didn't like it because he was an asshole, but mostly just in a "ugh, that guy" kind of way that didn't interfere with them later deciding to buy a Tesla. Then he bought Twitter, and suddenly his behavior was actively hurting his companies -- Tesla because he had to sell stock which affected prices and because he's tarnishing the brand by going political, and Twitter because he was making erratic decisions that drove away users and advertisers. So investors started to care.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> What I find interesting is nobody complained about Musk’s social media antics when he proclaimed himself to be Technoking of Tesla or when he hyped dogecoins with diamond hands. People have indeed criticized both of those and many of the other things Musk has tweeted before the recent Tesla stock decline, and even the SEC has taken legal action based on ]Musk’s past tweets.

hindsightbias 4y ago

Who needs shortsellers when you’re tripping on ambien. “Last year, Musk tweeted, "A little red wine, vintage record, some Ambien ... and magic!" Sam Altman, the president of startup accelerator Y Combinator, replied: "ambien tweeting is a dangerous game." https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-ambien-use-tesla-board-what-drug-does-2018-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-ambien-use-tesla-b...

deleted 4y ago
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samwillis 4y ago

I believe "Full self drive" is going to be seen as a historical mistake for Tesla, it's a distraction from their core mission. Imagine if they were spending that time and money on developing a smaller cheaper car for the masses, getting more industrial vehicles out (god know why they have not done a traditional Van?). That's is the growth that is needed to justify their market cap. Not some fancy thing that's not relevant or of interest to 90% of the market.

georgeg23 4y ago

1. Chinese government is also pressuring Tesla because Elon has started work on militarizing space with StarShield and other preparation for Strategic Defense Initiative style capabilities in Low Earth Orbit. 2. Elon hasn't gotten much of the money for Strategic Defense Initiative contracts, nor is the entire program progressing much under Biden. He feels the Trump/Santis party, which embraced the project, needs to somehow continue by being boosted on Twitter. This is pretty obvious when you read Chinese Weibo media and SpaceX history with Michael D. Griffin https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Griffin#Career

kidme5 4y ago
He's basically a defense contractor now. That can't go over well with China.

blackoil 4y ago

Tesla PE is still high compared to other automakers. So based on growth expectations, it should be between 30-90.

vardump 4y ago
Tesla's P/E is about 34 right now. If they had zero growth from 2022 Q3 for a year, then it's P/E be about 26 with the current stock price.

bannedbybros 4y ago

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Gatsky 4y ago

Could be another dotcom era Cisco, which still hasn’t regained it’s peak [1]. Cisco had the biggest market cap in the world for a while. Tesla could be an even worse investment if it ends up being just an overvalued car company. It also has the biggest ‘bus factor’ of any company in SP500 ie. if Musk quits/falls ill the price will likely dive severely. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-much-investing-1-000-125124063.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres-much-investing-1-000-12...

dumbotron 4y ago
> if Musk quits/falls ill the price will likely dive severely. I could see this going either way. They won't come up with a wild world-changing idea without him, and you might lose some fanboy investors and employees, but a competent manager with auto industry experience would kill/spin off power wall and solar projects, scale back self-driving promises, and fix reliability issues. It'd be a better car company, but a worse dream company.
- sidibe 4y ago
  Long term that might be better, but it's still priced like a dream company.

Tempest1981 4y ago

It's also interesting that Rivian (RIVN) and Lucid (LCID) stock have been falling in-sync with Tesla -- although maybe at 2/3 the rate. Due to institutional investors? Last week, Ford and GM were also falling, although today they are flat.

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dumbotron 4y ago

It's been a worse year for TSLA than even META, now.

marricks 4y ago

Maybe I missed it, but what I don’t see mentioned in the comments is the biggest change from four years ago: light at the end of the tunnel. Four years ago Tesla was in the throes of model 3 production and had the potential of huge demand once they got going. Where are things now? Other automakers have responded with alternatives. Good ones too, you can buy a Hyundai for a similar price and according to consumer reports, better reliability. What’s on the horizon for Tesla? Trucks and Semis but those aren’t as mass market as model 3, and self driving cars have shown themselves to be… less than feasible.

joewadcan 4y ago
Energy products. Megapacks are sold out for 12 months in advance right now and the queue is getting bigger.
yreg 4y ago
The next step should be an affordable car (colloquially dubbed model 2). Also TM3 can go much lower with the price. Tesla has the highest margins of all automakers by far.
- kenhwang 4y ago
  > Tesla has the highest margins of all automakers by far. What an absurd statement. Tesla's is ~30%, which is high but not too far off from the ~20% of Toyota and the Germans (VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes). But that's ignoring Porsche with ~85%.
TheHappyOddish 4y ago
> Good ones too, you can buy a Hyundai for a similar price and according to consumer reports, better reliability. I keep seeing this repeated, but I've yet to find a car that can compete in price and range, let alone price, range and features.

DieAgainAli 4y ago

Telsa is not worth the valuation. Just speculation it may be in the future which is bad, stocks are bought on what its worth today. Telsa is valued at the same as all the other manufacturers combined, which is obviously wrong and Elon got a free purchase of a social media company out of it. All a bit bonkers really

faefox 4y ago

I really wonder how Tesla breaks out of this tailspin. For a long time the Tesla name carried a lot of cachet but it's so inextricably linked with Musk's public persona - which is growing more radioactive with every tweet.

jetsnoc 4y ago

Tesla stocks have always been overvalued. The reason why is that people believe in him, his vision and the future sales of Tesla based on him and his vision. It is a luxury brand. A lifestyle. I am proposing the theory that maybe he's lost a little bit of that magic in people believing in him. I could have it all wrong since it is anecdotal evidence of the worst kind - my own. I recently considered purchasing a Tesla Plaid, but ultimately decided against it because I did not want to indirectly support Elon Musk. Instead, I purchased a Porsche. I was in the market for a Luxury car - not necessarily an EV. I used to be a big fan of Musk so much so that I wore the t-shirt ("Occupy Mars.") But, his opinions have become too personally problematic for me to feel comfortable supporting him. I mean it and want that to be absorbed, so I will say it again. His /personal opinions/ have become /too personally problematic/ for me as a consumer to feel comfortable supporting him. I have a personal boycott against him, if you will. I will do away with my Starlink just as soon as Amazon gets Kuiper online. I am concerned that others may feel the same way, which could make it difficult for him to attract and hire talented people. It is unfortunate because I could always see the ~potential~ of Twitter under a visionary capitalist. You see, I am/was also Twitter's biggest fan, I am user-id 11,647 from 2006. I don't know that he can hire the right people, now, to meet that potential. I envision a platform that serves as a forum, creators' storefront, and a place for fans to subscribe and tip content creators. Twitter could grow a lot of these barely tapped markets. With the right moves on the chess-board, I have no doubt in my mind Twitter could rapidly become one of the top three mobile wallets if the cards were played correctly. There are so many ways for Twitter to become an old-fashioned business that takes cash from it's customers which would allow it to diversify out of the advertisement revenue. This would meet his goal of Twitter being a public square for its users not one that is required to appease it's advertisers. It would also ensure the continuity of Twitter. But, I am not convinced he can get THERE from HERE if others feel the same way I do.

ahahahahah 4y ago
Tesla plaid is not a luxury car.
- jetsnoc 4y ago
  I am always willing to correct an error or omission. Could you share more? I was curious if my statement was bias (on my part) or fact so I did a little research and came across the Edmunds quote below. They are basically the consumer reports for vehicle shopping. "The Tesla Model S Plaid is a high-performance luxury electric car that Tesla says pumps out 1,020 horsepower and does 0-60 mph in 1.99 seconds. If all of that sounds impressive, that's because it is." I'm always willing to correct my world-view though so I would love to learn more. I do recognize there are super-luxury cars which a Tesla S is not. Say a Rolls Royce or a Bentley but the little amount I drive there was diminishing returns on that next level of spend on a vehicle.

jacquesm 4y ago

Anybody with a stop loss order at $100 care to chime in? $112.78 at the moment, given the drop so far that's within reach, even today.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

zzleeper 4y ago

I kinda hate that I'm "forced" to buy stupid TSLA stock just because, as a responsible adult, I put most of my investments in the SP500, and any alternative I could find that excludes firms I hate (FB, TSLA) has infinitely higher expense ratios :/

jaredklewis 4y ago
I read this helpless attitude on a similar thread recently and it boggles my mind. It is not like SPY is the only index fund around. There is a low-cost, well managed ETF for just about every angle on the market these days. So why not invest in a fund that better aligns with your principles? TSLA is ~1% of the SPY, but only 0.04% of FNDX (another large cap fund). It's not like you need to devote your life to picking stocks, but if owning tesla bothers you, making a one time effort to find something you like better than SPY seems like a reasonable move.

quantified 4y ago

Drops out of the 10 most valuable companies, I think.

programmarchy 4y ago

https://archive.vn/6N4On https://archive.vn/6N4On

walrus01 4y ago

Tesla stock chart, 3 month: https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/TSLA/#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- https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/TSLA/#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6ImRheS...

icepat 4y ago
If you scale it up over the entire time-series, it's fallen off a cliff.

SkipperCat 4y ago

Going by its P/E, its still overpriced compared to every other car manufacture, but its getting back down to a rational level. Its only 6x Ford and GM and about 4x Toyota.

bink 4y ago
I always used to laugh when people would bring up battery tech and solar when talking about TSLA's absurd valuation, but I think it's starting to become more relevant as it approaches a more realistic market cap. It's still too high though.
- justapassenger 4y ago
  Their solar is shrinking/stagnating for years and it’s not a high margin business for a start - competition is brutal. It’s utility at the core - they always operate on razor thin margins. For batteries, they still mostly just buy from suppliers.
- SkipperCat 4y ago
  Yeah, if it was 2x or 3x Ford, I'd consider it a stronger buy. I think the real test will not be its P/E, but how the other big car companies debut their EV and driver-assist (or driverless) tech. It just feels like Tesla is still the market leader in that tech. If someone else beats them at that game, it would not be good for their stock price. But, conversely, if they stay on top, maybe that high valuation will stick around.
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Uh, they already have debuted, and not even this year
    - kspacewalk2 4y ago
      And yet Tesla is still the market leader.

seydor 4y ago

after tesla deflates, who s next

givemeethekeys 4y ago
There are a handful of large tech companies with high PE’s. All names that we are all very familiar with. All good businesses, but overvalued.
programmarchy 4y ago
Most of the big tech companies have 5-year charts similar to Tesla. The exception is Apple. Are they immune?
kspacewalk2 4y ago
Apple.
Animats 4y ago
First, the giant money-losers - WeWork, Uber, etc. Tesla has an advantage in electric cars in that they don't make IC cars. The IC car companies seem to have a hard time transitioning to electric-first. Ford has a nice electric pickup truck, which costs far too much and isn't produced in enough quantity to meet demand. Their electric work van is OK, although it's an IC conversion. Ford will probably do both better in the next iteration. Both are selling well. Tesla has nothing in either category. Ford's utterly boring E-Transit van will probably dominate the dull and boring world of company owned van fleets. Those spend their nights at the company parking lot and then go out and make local trips during the day. Ideal situation for charging, paid for by companies who know their gasoline costs.

JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago

It's time to fire the CEO. Musk is like the Manager who brought a club from 3rd division to the Premier League, but he was paid spectacularly and the club doesn't owe him nothing more than a fair handshake and a great send-off with a guaranteed spot in the club HOF. It's time to thank him and bring in an adult who can guarantee a top-4 Champions League spot consistently season after season, otherwise the club will follow the manager on his descending arc down to 3rd Division again.

alzaeem 4y ago
But then Eddie Howe moved to Newcastle and is on track to get them into the coveted Champions League spots... Is that a risk you wish to take?
- Ar-Curunir 4y ago
  Elon Musk is not at risk of taking anything anywhere.
- notahacker 4y ago
  But Elon has already moved on mentally and is currently on track to get Twitter relegated as well so I'm not sure we need to worry about what he could do with TSLA if it received unlimited funding from Saudi Arabia (hmm... more overlap in the analogy than I thought!) I don't think a regular CEO is going to be able to restore the reality distortion field that got TSLA overvalued by that much in the first place, but they might at least look interested in selling cars.
  - JumpinJack_Cash 4y ago
    > > I don't think a regular CEO is going to be able to restore the reality distortion field that got TSLA overvalued by that much in the first place, but they might at least look interested in selling cars. Problem is that selling cars is a much tougher business than selling hope.
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

remote_phone 4y ago

I’ve been short since $300. I predicted $100 but now I think it could hit $68. We shall see!

roflyear 4y ago
Congrats!
dragontamer 4y ago
If you're currently making $200 a share, why would you risk your $200 profits to chase another $30 to $40 bucks/share? I say, just take your win and go home. Close out your short and buy yourself a nice dinner. You deserve it. EDIT: Maybe hold onto a few shorts for fun. But if you're already winning this hard, you really should just take profits. Its not like you can get much more profits out of this.
- remote_phone 4y ago
  Thanks but I really don’t need advice, I’ve been doing this for a while now. I scale in and out of all my trades, I’ve booked a lot of my profits at this point.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sokoloff 4y ago
  Other than tax differences (minor and mostly not applicable on the short side), I think that’s the wrong way to think about trades. If you have reason to invest on the thesis that the stock will go down to $68 from $109, being short from $105, $150, or $300 is all the same at this point.
- bb88 4y ago
  P/E is still 33 as we head into a recession, and Musk continues to anger the traditional customer base that cares about environmental issues. He might make up with Maga republicans, but many of them want a Ford Pickup. We'll see what the 4th Quarter holds but it's still possible that EPS will grow and the price will still tank as it becomes clear that the market becomes saturated with Elon's big ego. Even $68 is would mean a P/E of around 20 which is still ~3 times higher than Ford's.

petilon 4y ago

Musk confronted Bill Gates for shorting Tesla [1] then proceeded to sell tons of TSLA himself. What a hypocrite! He is still selling TSLA, most recent sale was 12 days ago for $3.6 billion. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/23/elon-musk-tweets-that-he-confronted-bill-gates-about-shorting-tesla.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/23/elon-musk-tweets-that-he-con...

andirk 4y ago
Dude overplayed his troll hand and now he's selling off his cool company to shore up funds for his troll company.
thrashh 4y ago
Musk is a regular person but now with a butt load of money. It means he’s gonna be all over the place, but with money Scary
- d23 4y ago
  I don’t think your average Joe at the convenience store is nearly as erratic as Musk.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

StephenAmar 4y ago

Lost 2 Twitter worth since Musk took over.

kvee 4y ago

Short term we may see the price drop a lot, but long term it's never a great idea to bet against Elon Musk

stonogo 4y ago
Why not? It worked great for X.com.
oxfordmale 4y ago
There is a difference in betting against Elon Musk and betting against Tesla. Tesla's stock price has been hyped up for a long time now. It all depends on FSD and that isn't going too well so far.

s5300 4y ago

[flagged]

Animats 4y ago

By market cap. Not sales, or revenue, or number of employees, or profits.

dkarras 4y ago
but the old prices were not about revenue, or number of employees or profits either.

alkonaut 4y ago

How is Musk still allowed to be CEO? Serious question. Why don’t large shareholders demand some fresh blood?

concordDance 4y ago
Because without the remnants of the Musk-hype it'll be worth even less than the current amount, maybe 2x Ford. Investing in Tesla was, for many people, investing in Musk and his vision.
TigeriusKirk 4y ago
Tesla without Musk hype would be worth much less than it is even now.
sonotathrowaway 4y ago
Tesla’s Board of Directors values their friendships with Musk over their fiduciary duties or corporate governance.
redox99 4y ago
Because actual shareholders read the financial statements, and therefore know how impressive Musk's performance has been so far, unlike people that literally haven't read further than the P/E. Of course maybe Q4 and future quarters may change that, but there's no reason yet for shareholders to want another CEO.
- Volundr 4y ago
  So why are "actual shareholders" selling?
  - redox99 4y ago
    That's just the stock market, I wouldn't read too much into it. Wait for Q4 earnings to draw any real conclusion based on actual performance and not stock market price. But to address your question, it's completely compatible to think both that a) TSLA is overvalued b) Elon is the best CEO Tesla could have

thrashh 4y ago

In my opinion, the valuation of Tesla was reasonable based on the fact that they were making strides in driving AI But at the time, humans did not yet know that FSD seems to be un-achievable with a non-general AI. At least with current techniques. People invested Tesla thinking something was possible and it turns out it isn’t. It happens

sidibe 4y ago
Everyone in the industry has always known Tesla wasn't close. And current AI seems to be good enough for what Waymo and Cruise are aiming for. Despite years of dominating the headlines, the problem is Tesla was investing way less in research than the leaders and then tying both hands behind their backs with no Lidar and HD maps. I also think not trying to really master even a geofenced area is making them kick the can down the road on the thorny problems
- kenhwang 4y ago
  It was immediately obvious when Tesla was far behind traditional approaches for auto headlights, wipers, and self-parking and refused to deviate from their AI-only approach.
justapassenger 4y ago
People invested in Tesla because Musk openly lied countless times about state of their technology. Everyone who had any serous experience with AI knew he was lying. This is how I became Elon sceptic, as I know thing or two about AI, and when he announced FSD I knew it was fraud.

concordDance 4y ago

Coming down to more sensible levels. Though it's still only fallen a bit more than the other tech stocks like Netflix, Amazon and Meta: https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/TSLA/#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 https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/TSLA/#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6ImRheS...