6 ms·

All these evolutionary arguments (e.g. “head of penis is shaped as such to clean out semen of competitors”) all sound conveniently convincing, but I’m curious i

by enw 4y ago

All these evolutionary arguments (e.g. “head of penis is shaped as such to clean out semen of competitors”) all sound conveniently convincing, but I’m curious if there’s any data validating them? It’s easy to shoehorn any number of plausible theories, but how do we know one evolutionary theory is the correct one?

hsn915 4y ago
It's all guesswork. There is no mechanism to validate any of it.
PartiallyTyped 4y ago
> but how do we know one evolutionary theory is the correct one IMHO, the one that works is the one most likely to result in increased gene propagation even if the percentage is minuscule in the absence of orthogonal genes. The argument is not that X evolved to do Y, but rather X resulted in increased gene propagation as it happened to do Y. In the example above, the head of the penis is shaped as such because that shape enables semen displacement. In the same vein, males tend to lose an erection, and therefore the [flaccid] penis loses the displacement property, after excretion because that results in not displacing one's own semen.
taneq 4y ago
Clearly the arguments that sound less convincing have failed to survive and reproduce. The existence of evolutionary arguments is therefore proof of the correctness of the theory! ;)
- jojobas 4y ago
  Except penises come in quite a variety of shapes across species. Distinguishing actual driving traits from those that just happened to ride along (i.e. men's nipples and other various vestiges, bright red colour of foxes where neither the foxes themselves, nor their predators or prey can see colour), is very hard.
- perilunar 4y ago
  Memetic evolution of arguments about genetic evolution. Very meta.
perilunar 4y ago
These are often called "Just So Stories" after Kipling's book for that very reason. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_So_Stories#Evolutionary_developmental_biology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_So_Stories#Evolutionary_d... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story
P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
We'll never know, honestly. And if I'm being truthful, I struggle with evolution a bit. It's a bit like life. I understand how life could have eventually evolved to where we're at. But how did life _start_? Any specific mechanism is explained as having evolved, but if so, how did it _start_? For example, there's an HN thread explaining why bees die after they sting and why it's acceptable from a colony perspective. What put bee's on _that_ specific evolutionary track? How did it _start_? I think a lot of people are like myself, there's a level of blind faith put into evolution. We obviously have witnessed it happening so we know it does happen, but there are so many things we can't explain for sure that forces us to have blind faith it happened via _purely_ evolutionary forces. like ... what if we find out some super advanced alien civilization seeded earth with life and managed it in some way, helping shape things. It would kind of explain a lot. And so I continue to have blind faith that even if we don't have a concrete explanation for many of the things we see it happened via evolution, but I also understand the skepticism some people have for evolution being the sole explanation.
- neonnoodle 4y ago
  > what if we find out some super advanced alien civilization seeded earth with life and managed it in some way, helping shape things. It would kind of explain a lot It really wouldn't!
  - dsego 4y ago
    The alien origin hypothesis is just kicking the can down the road.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      how so? A simple explanation would be that the aliens are much simpler than we are in makeup because it happened purely by evolution, and that part of our complexity came through planning. There's just too many possibilities to so confidently claim it's kicking the can down the road.
LarsDu88 4y ago
Look into the genitalia of felids and other large mammals. It will start to become obvious how biologists may have come to that hypothesis!
pvaldes 4y ago
Everybody knows that we evolved a smooth firm surface to attach wobbly eyes stickers and impress the females. Deeckaboo!. Is the magic of evolution

by enw 4y ago

hsn915 4y ago

It's all guesswork. There is no mechanism to validate any of it.

PartiallyTyped 4y ago

> but how do we know one evolutionary theory is the correct one IMHO, the one that works is the one most likely to result in increased gene propagation even if the percentage is minuscule in the absence of orthogonal genes. The argument is not that X evolved to do Y, but rather X resulted in increased gene propagation as it happened to do Y. In the example above, the head of the penis is shaped as such because that shape enables semen displacement. In the same vein, males tend to lose an erection, and therefore the [flaccid] penis loses the displacement property, after excretion because that results in not displacing one's own semen.

taneq 4y ago

Clearly the arguments that sound less convincing have failed to survive and reproduce. The existence of evolutionary arguments is therefore proof of the correctness of the theory! ;)

jojobas 4y ago
Except penises come in quite a variety of shapes across species. Distinguishing actual driving traits from those that just happened to ride along (i.e. men's nipples and other various vestiges, bright red colour of foxes where neither the foxes themselves, nor their predators or prey can see colour), is very hard.
perilunar 4y ago
Memetic evolution of arguments about genetic evolution. Very meta.

perilunar 4y ago

These are often called "Just So Stories" after Kipling's book for that very reason. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_So_Stories#Evolutionary_developmental_biology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_So_Stories#Evolutionary_d... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-so_story

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago

We'll never know, honestly. And if I'm being truthful, I struggle with evolution a bit. It's a bit like life. I understand how life could have eventually evolved to where we're at. But how did life _start_? Any specific mechanism is explained as having evolved, but if so, how did it _start_? For example, there's an HN thread explaining why bees die after they sting and why it's acceptable from a colony perspective. What put bee's on _that_ specific evolutionary track? How did it _start_? I think a lot of people are like myself, there's a level of blind faith put into evolution. We obviously have witnessed it happening so we know it does happen, but there are so many things we can't explain for sure that forces us to have blind faith it happened via _purely_ evolutionary forces. like ... what if we find out some super advanced alien civilization seeded earth with life and managed it in some way, helping shape things. It would kind of explain a lot. And so I continue to have blind faith that even if we don't have a concrete explanation for many of the things we see it happened via evolution, but I also understand the skepticism some people have for evolution being the sole explanation.

neonnoodle 4y ago
> what if we find out some super advanced alien civilization seeded earth with life and managed it in some way, helping shape things. It would kind of explain a lot It really wouldn't!
- dsego 4y ago
  The alien origin hypothesis is just kicking the can down the road.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    how so? A simple explanation would be that the aliens are much simpler than we are in makeup because it happened purely by evolution, and that part of our complexity came through planning. There's just too many possibilities to so confidently claim it's kicking the can down the road.

LarsDu88 4y ago

Look into the genitalia of felids and other large mammals. It will start to become obvious how biologists may have come to that hypothesis!

pvaldes 4y ago

Everybody knows that we evolved a smooth firm surface to attach wobbly eyes stickers and impress the females. Deeckaboo!. Is the magic of evolution