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>Marketplaces like this have long been used as a front for scamming Commercial eBay seller here. Honestly, it's been damn near impossible to scam someone via

>Marketplaces like this have long been used as a front for scamming Commercial eBay seller here. Honestly, it's been damn near impossible to scam someone via eBay (as a seller, at least) since around 2008, when they introduced mandatory PayPal payments by default. Managed Payments (rolled out during the pandemic) makes it even harder to scam as a seller. There's still the perceptions that hang around from the early days, but buyer protections and reversible payment methods controlled by eBay themselves have successfully scared away the scammers. The only fraud you still get is friendly fraud from buyers.

WarOnPrivacy 4y ago
> Honestly, it's been damn near impossible to scam someone via eBay (as a seller, at least) since around 2008, when they introduced mandatory PayPal payments by default. Managed Payments (rolled out during the pandemic) makes it even harder to scam as a seller. This seems like a fairly important facet of this discussion.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
It’s plenty easy to scam people on eBay if you’re smart. I collect movies - and eBay has sent me bootleg DVDs and box sets countless times. They’re pretty convincing - even with stickers on the shrink wrap - but they are bootlegs regardless (sometimes poor printing, single instead of dual layer discs, no copy protection, etc.). eBay almost always makes me send them back despite my evidence, so I unfortunately know someone else will get scammed next time, but what else can be done? Counterfeit Nintendo 64 cartridges are also becoming very widespread. eBay also sent me counterfeit AirPods Pro once. Very convincing box and look and feel, but the atrocious noise cancelling was the giveaway. It even made the little AirPods pop-up on your iPhone.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  This is fair - they don't fight counterfeits as well as they possibly could (and frankly never have. 15 years ago it was the same thing with counterfeits). That's not normally what people are talking about when they mention online scams, though.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> The only fraud you still get is friendly fraud from buyers. I’ve been bitten by this. I thoroughly tested a PC part, packed it in original anti-static packaging, packed that inside of an excessive amount of packaging and a thick box, and then shipped it all via a well-tracked shipping method. Buyer waited until a day before the end of the claim period and then insisted the part didn’t work. Wouldn’t cooperate with any debug questions so I grudgingly authorized a return. Buyer never returned anything, never even provided return tracking info. Yet he’s been escalating this to eBay and now filing a chargeback with his credit card company. After less than 10 minutes with eBay support, they admit that this buyer has a pattern of doing this exact scam. Just follow the steps and provide the requested info and I’ll be fine, they said. I’m blown away that they know a buyer has a habit of doing this, yet continue to let them operate on the platform. Losing the couple hundred dollars wouldn’t be the end of the world, but I’m deeply frustrated that eBay is so heavily tilted toward the buyer that someone can develop a pattern of fraudulent chargebacks and false complaints with apparently no consequences.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  Support's right, you'll win the case. If they open a return case, they need to send the item back. Happens all the time to us. >I’m deeply frustrated that eBay is so heavily tilted toward the buyer Their answer to this criticism is that siding with the buyer by default creates trust, which encourages more buyers to use the platform and therefore increases sales volume for their seller. I'm honestly inclined to agree. I'd much rather lose 1% of our revenue each year to fraud and unnecessary returns than 50% through buyer hesitation because they're not sure their items will work or even arrive.
  - buck4roo 4y ago
    Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its return policy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32362363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32362363 Good insight into the merchant side of customer return fraud.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >Their answer to this criticism is that siding with the buyer by default creates trust, which encourages more buyers to use the platform and therefore increases sales volume for their seller. I'm honestly inclined to agree. I'm not: it depends on the seller. If you're a high-volume seller, then sure: a few bad transactions like this overall is the "price of doing business" because the popularity of the platform means you'll do much more sales volume, which more than makes up for a few shitty buyers. However, if you're a low-volume seller who's just using Ebay to sell your old stuff, with only a very small number of higher-value items sold per year, then even a single bad transaction like this can ruin your profit and make it not worth it to sell on this platform. Personally, I'm much more inclined to sell high-value stuff via Facebook Marketplace, in-person only, because of this possibility. Add in Ebay's high fees and FBM is really attractive, but the problem is you're limited to people in your local area. However, Ebay years ago decided they cared much more about the high-volume sellers than the regular Joes using it as a virtual garage sale venue, so this makes sense for Ebay and increasing their stock price. To be fair though, in my years of using Ebay as a low-volume individual, I haven't had many bad transactions, and have been able to sell off a lot of stuff.
NavinF 4y ago
Yeah I don't understand how it's even possible to get scammed. eBay always sides with the buyer and refunds them if the seller doesn't do it first. In the extremely unlikely chance that a buyer somehow loses an eBay dispute, they can still file a chargeback with their credit card.
dataflow 4y ago
> Honestly, it's been damn near impossible to scam someone via eBay (as a seller, at least) since around 2008 This is not true. Several sellers sent me broken version of a device I was looking for recently. In fact, it turned out that, for the device I was seeking recently, pretty much everyone who was selling around slightly (say, ~25%) below what I thought was the market price (for a used item!) was selling broken versions of it. The ones that were slightly more expensive actually worked.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  Go to your purchase history here (substitute .com.au for your local site): https://www.ebay.com.au/mye/myebay/purchase https://www.ebay.com.au/mye/myebay/purchase You should see a button that says "Return this item" for your faulty product. Click it, go through the prompts and complain that it wasn't as described. In the description field, write "broken". If the seller hasn't set up a proper RMA process, the system will automatically generate a return label. Once you lodge the return using that label, you win the case (regardless of hwo well the fault was described by the seller). The seller will also be billed for the label.
  - dataflow 4y ago
    I'm aware, I already did that. And yes, I got my money back. That seems completely beside your "it's near-impossible to scam people since 2008" point though? Unless your position is "it's only a scam if it succeeds"?
    - AussieWog93 4y ago
      There's a legitimate market for faulty electronics, which I personally participate as both a buyer and a seller. People buying something without realising it's faulty is an expensive problem for me, as it inevitably means a return which is both time consuming and leaves me on the hook for postage both ways (return postage usually being a more expensive method). If they're trying to scam with it, I doubt they'd get very far as it's extremely expensive and ruins your metrics.
brudgers 4y ago
The current scam on eBay is to provide a tracking number to the same Zip Code as the purchaser. These tracking numbers are attached to the sale after the tracking number shows delivery. By default eBay will close undelivered item cases because the tracking number shows the item was delivered. Appealing the closed case is possible, but the link to appeal is difficult to find and the level of proof required is high. I know because it happened to me and it took going to my local post office, talking to the postmaster, and getting the USPS internal tracking log. And that required convincing the postmaster I would not try to recover the package from the home where it was delivered. I assured the postmaster that this was a scam, and it helped my post office serves an affluent zip code, It was a ridiculous amount of time and effort for the amount involved. This is not to dig on eBay. I still prefer it to Amazon. But that’s the scam you can use if you are so inclined. Not that I am suggesting you are.
crazygringo 4y ago
> The only fraud you still get is friendly fraud from buyers. Nope, I've had 3 different sellers run the exact same scam on me. Each time it was an item not even close to as described -- e.g. damaged and used when advertised as new, an old inferior model different from the one advertised, etc. No problem, I can understand people make mistakes so I ask for a return and they send a prepaid label, I ship it back. But turns out they've manually entered a totally different tracking number in eBay's system for the return label tracking info. I ship the item back but obviously it never shows to eBay as delivered or even sent in the first place, and there's no way in the user UX to correct the tracking info to the label you sent. The only way to resolve it is to call eBay, except that's almost impossible because it has to be a callback initiated through a link on their website, and if you've called too many times before, they stop showing the link. (Turns out there's still a way to do it, clicking through several links in the support center, as long as you're not logged in so they don't know you're the one "using up" their phone support.) Because the actual return label is in their message to me, a customer service rep eventually decides I'm right, they can manually see that label was delivered, and so they'll initiate a full refund but it will take several days. But every time, the refund doesn't go through. You have to wait a couple of weeks, call them again, explain the whole process again, and then the refund will go through on the second attempt. (All 3 cases, it required the second try.) Three times, three different sellers trying to offload junk on me instead of the actual new item, and using this "wrong return label tracking number" scam so not only does it not get refunded but they get the original (albeit crappy) merchandise back too! Definitely a full hour of work to deal with eBay after each one to get the return fixed and actually refunded, and I imagine most people can't even get someone on the phone to do it. (Chat and messages simply didn't work or get responded to, or they were unhelpful autoresponses.)
- treis 4y ago
  I've lost out on buyer's protection through similar eBay shenanigans. I opened a dispute and the seller didn't respond. But that doesn't mean you win as a buyer. There's an additional step you have to take in order to claim your victory. Some arbitrary clock ran out by the time I noticed it was too late.
- veltas 4y ago
ValueAddedRS 4y ago
There are easy ways to scam on eBay as a seller - you just have to know what is and is not covered by eBay's Money Back Guarantee for buyers and make sure what you are doing purposely deprives buyers of that protection. Two examples that I've seen play out repeatedly in recent history: List a pre-sale item that is 60-90 days out, with no intention of actually shipping anything. By the time the buyer realizes they've been had, it will be past the time they can file an eMBG claim and eBay will tell them "too bad." Or list hot items like a Steam Deck or MoonSwatch under "Specialty services" or "Business and Industrial Equipment" instead of the correct category (again with no intention of actually shipping anything)...if some poor sucker doesn't notice and buys it any way, once again eBay will tell them "too bad" because those special categories are exempt from the money back guarantee. Sure in both of those cases, buyers can resort back to a chargeback with their payment method, but eBay absolutely allows the scam to happen and typically does nothing on their side to prevent it proactively or assist the buyer after the fact. And then of course there's the perennial favorite - send an envelope with a piece of paper to an address in the same zip code as the buyer so you have tracking with a delivery scan and any "item not received" claim will instantly be closed in the seller's favor.
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  > Or list hot items like a Steam Deck or MoonSwatch under "Specialty services" or "Business and Industrial Equipment" instead of the correct category (again with no intention of actually shipping anything)...if some poor sucker doesn't notice and buys it any way, once again eBay will tell them "too bad" because those special categories are exempt from the money back guarantee. Back in the day, I knew people who'd make a fortune buying "Plam Pilot"s from eBay (because you couldn't edit your item title, and fuzzy search was not/barely a thing. They'd search out common typos, and buy and resell stuff that was just not getting any/many bids (this is before Buy It Now was a thing, too, though you might have guessed that from the Palm Pilot reference...)
sottol 4y ago
It's super easy: provide a valid FedEx tracking number to the proximate area code that is eventually marked as delivered, address and content don't matter. That's it. I ordered a drone, tracking showed 3 pallettes of 50lbs each, PayPal did nothing. If you're not the shipper, FedEx won't disclose the destination address despite having the tracking number and PayPal won't lift a finger no matter how often you tell them that's not your actually your zip code or that drones don't weigh 150lbs. Afaik it's FedEx specifically. That's when I was done with PayPal. I was not happy when ebay introduced their own payment system with forced KYC but PayPal is worse.
fasthands9 4y ago
I bought a raspberry pi off eBay earlier this year for about $120. It was fried and didnt actually work and was able to return it for a full refund. Seller was super nice - but I imagine the reason they were nice is because they didnt want me to make an extra report about them. They prob had to pay for the $10 I spent to ship it back (unless it comes out of eBay?) but either way they can try that 10 more times and try to turn a profit on an otherwise valueless item.
- nullc 4y ago
  I've wondered before if there isn't a nice business for scammers on ebay where they buy high value broken parts for nothing then sell them and graciously accept returns from anyone who notices. Eventually the part lands on someone's shelf as a spare or for a delayed project and the issue isn't discovered until long after the return window. I doubt this would pan out for a rpi-- too low a price relative to the cost of accepting a couple returns. But there are many items it probably would work for...
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    You could try it, but all you'd achieve is paying half a dozen lots of return postage before getting your account limited for having bad metrics.
    - nullc 4y ago
      Can't you just also sell some random cheap crap (perhaps via drop-shipping) to pad the activity on your account and avoid having a bad rate of returns?
      - AussieWog93 4y ago
        I mean, you could, but you'd still just continually be paying for returns on faulty items over and over again.
        4y ago
guywithahat 4y ago
I disagree, I've been the victim of dropship scams before and despite it being strictly against both eBay and Amazon's TOS there's not even an avenue for reporting as a buyer. I've also definitely received used/returned items which were marketed as "new". I think the nature of scamming is changing, but there are definitely scammers
- ValueAddedRS 4y ago
  I'm assuming you're talking about situations where someone lists an item they don't have on eBay, then have it "drop shipped" from another seller on Amazon once it sells (or vice versa)? If so, you might be interested to know the INFORM act requires sellers who meet the $20K threshold to disclose if a different seller is shipping the item and if so, if the buyer request, they have to provide the contact info for that seller. "Whether the high-volume third party seller used a different seller to supply the consumer product to the consumer upon purchase, and, upon the request of an authenticated purchaser, the information described in clause (i) relating to any such seller that supplied the consumer product to the purchaser, if such seller is different than the high-volume third party seller listed on the product listing prior to purchase." I know a lot of buyers have been frustrated with this kind of online arbitrage drop shipping for years and most of the marketplaces don't enforce their policies about it - it will be interesting to see if this helps curb the practice.
drfuchs 4y ago
Contrary wise, I ordered 8 of an item on eBay, and received only 2. The fact that the full FedEx shipping weight wasn’t enough for even 4, and that the box wasn’t physically big enough to fit the items (pictures provided in my complaint), didn’t dissuade eBay from declaring that the seller had “confirmed” that they had shipped the correct number, tough luck for me.
- jrs235 4y ago
  I experienced a similar thing from purchasing something from a fraud (realized what happened after I submitted payment) website that used PayPal for payment. PayPal refused to follow or investigate what I was saying and found. I had to get my credit card company to issue a charge back. They listened to me. I told them how to call FedEx with the tracking number and that FedEx cannot divulge the actual delivery address but they are allowed to verify if the package was delivered to a given (one's home) address. The scammers send a package with tracking number to an address in the same zip code and have people grab/pickup the package, or they have access to FedEx's system and can look up package tracking numbers. The size and weight of the packages won't make any sense for the dimensions of the item(s) purchased too. PayPal also refuses to close the PayPal account associated with the scam website!
- jacob019 4y ago
  You need to open a not as described return, not a non-receipt case.
nullc 4y ago
Some older methods of seller fraud don't work anymore, but there are plenty of new ones that do. I had a seller try to steal $20k from me-- and they told me right out that eBay wouldn't refund it. They were right. In my case the seller sent an item which was ultimately delivered back to them (they seem to have intentionally munged the delivery details so that a delivery to me was never even attempted). The tracking however ultimately showed "delivered" and that's all eBay cared about. I even got a phone recording of the seller admitting they had it back then demanding more money from me to send it again! Ebay didn't care. (Maybe the seller actually would have come through if I'd paid their ransom but I surely wasn't going to send more money to someone who was trying to screw me over) Through extraordinary effort I even got the full detailed shipment history, including showing it going back to the seller's address (which AFAICT the shipper wasn't really supposed to give me but I basically spent a whole day at their offices). Ebay didn't care, they demanded a letter from FedEx corp on Fedex letter head saying the package wasn't delivered to me (even though you could just see that from the cities named in the online tracking-- it never even made it into my state). I couldn't find any way to extract such a thing from Fedex even with another trip back to their offices. So ebay ruled against me, absurd. Fortunately I was still within the window to reverse the charge on my credit card (though ebay wasted enough time that I almost wasn't)-- and the credit card took care of it. Back to the topic: This law would have done nothing for me. I was already able to track down the sellers identity without difficulty-- but what am I to do with that? I could sue them at great cost with years of trouble and time and a substantial risk that I get nothing-- including my legal costs-- because they're bankrupt or vanish. Honestly I would have much rather spent my time and money suing eBay since at least there would be a possibility of recovery if I won. My entire problem was ebay's pants on head stupid policy that regarded a package as delivered to me even when the tracking made it completely clear that it wasn't. I don't think the seller even had to lie to ebay: they simply had to respond "Here is the delivered tracking number: xyz".
- FireBeyond 4y ago
  > My entire problem was ebay's pants on head stupid policy that regarded a package as delivered to me even when the tracking made it completely clear that it wasn't. I don't think the seller even had to lie to ebay: they simply had to respond "Here is the delivered tracking number: xyz". Yup. With apologies to the BOFH comics of old... "Click. Delivered. Close dispute. Clickety-click. On to the next one." > Back to the topic: This law would have done nothing for me. I was already able to track down the sellers identity without difficulty-- but what am I to do with that? I could sue them at great cost with years of trouble and time and a substantial risk that I get nothing-- including my legal costs-- because they're bankrupt or vanish. Honestly I would have much rather spent my time and money suing eBay since at least there would be a possibility of recovery if I won. A month after "losing" a phone a guy calls me from a couple of states away. "Hey, I bought a phone on eBay and it's apparently yours. If you got a new one through insurance, could you unlock it for me? I mean, I know it sucks, but you got a new phone and this way I am not getting scammed too". Set of balls on him. I said I wasn't willing to do that, because how do I know he wasn't responsible for my phone being "lost"? So we figured something out. He reached out to the seller, asked for a refund. Seller said "pound sand". I didn't know at the time, but the seller lived -very- close to me. He says to seller. "I am in contact with the legitimate owner of the phone. Refund me or he gets all your contact details." Seller refunds. Buyer gives me all his info anyway. I check out his eBay page, and it's the most blatant case of selling stolen electronics ever. Not just "broken/parts only". But 50+ MacBooks, most "missing charger/accessories", same with phones "no accessories included, as-is". I look at the listing for mine and the IMEI is on the page, to give the illusion of legitimacy. But the last two digits are transposed, so it's not valid. To a cursory buyer, "must be legit, or he wouldn't put the IMEI on the page", to me, who lost my phone, in the event I searched the IMEI, no results. All of the IMEIs were like this, last two digits transposed. Call the police. "Hey, this guy is selling hundreds of thousands of stolen goods". They could not care less. "Well, he probably didn't steal them himself" Uhh? Fairly sure that's still a crime, especially when it's obvious from your listings that you're covering that up. "Not much we can do. Sorry." Whatever. I resisted the urge to drive to his house and pour sugar and water in his gas, but only just.
null_object 4y ago
> it’s been damn near impossible to scam someone via eBay… I got scammed by an eBay seller with thousands of transactions, and an almost faultless history. He shipped me a ‘brand new’ Punkt phone, but when it arrived it was in really bad shape: not only was it scuffed and scratched, there was about a year’s worth of call-history on it. I made the mistake of contacting him first - and he immediately opened a complaint against me with eBay - meaning I was unable to leave a review of the sale (therefore his impeccable record). In the end, because I had pictures and evidence of the phone having been used, next to screenshots of the sales page describing the phone as totally brand new, I eventually got my money back. But nowadays I only buy from stores on eBay.
- bbbbb5 4y ago
  This seems like an example of a scam not working on eBay.
  - null_object 4y ago
    > This seems like an example of a scam not working on eBay It did work, because even though I got my money back and returned the phone, the mechanics of the complaints process - and his immediate opening of an issue against me - meant that I was never able to warn others of his dishonesty. This is a seller that had “100% perfect” transactions.
    - bbbbb5 4y ago
      >This is a seller that had “100% perfect” transactions. Won't save them, eBay will close their account after a couple of disputes like yours.
imtringued 4y ago
Fraud is much easier on Amazon since Amazon has product pages for multiple sellers. On eBay every seller lists their own products as a separate listing. This means on Amazon you can be fooled into thinking that you are buying from Amazon, but in reality the product you are getting is from a random seller. What this tells you is that Amazon doesn't care about getting rid of scammers. They are part of the business model.

WarOnPrivacy 4y ago

> Honestly, it's been damn near impossible to scam someone via eBay (as a seller, at least) since around 2008, when they introduced mandatory PayPal payments by default. Managed Payments (rolled out during the pandemic) makes it even harder to scam as a seller. This seems like a fairly important facet of this discussion.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

It’s plenty easy to scam people on eBay if you’re smart. I collect movies - and eBay has sent me bootleg DVDs and box sets countless times. They’re pretty convincing - even with stickers on the shrink wrap - but they are bootlegs regardless (sometimes poor printing, single instead of dual layer discs, no copy protection, etc.). eBay almost always makes me send them back despite my evidence, so I unfortunately know someone else will get scammed next time, but what else can be done? Counterfeit Nintendo 64 cartridges are also becoming very widespread. eBay also sent me counterfeit AirPods Pro once. Very convincing box and look and feel, but the atrocious noise cancelling was the giveaway. It even made the little AirPods pop-up on your iPhone.

AussieWog93 4y ago
This is fair - they don't fight counterfeits as well as they possibly could (and frankly never have. 15 years ago it was the same thing with counterfeits). That's not normally what people are talking about when they mention online scams, though.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

> The only fraud you still get is friendly fraud from buyers. I’ve been bitten by this. I thoroughly tested a PC part, packed it in original anti-static packaging, packed that inside of an excessive amount of packaging and a thick box, and then shipped it all via a well-tracked shipping method. Buyer waited until a day before the end of the claim period and then insisted the part didn’t work. Wouldn’t cooperate with any debug questions so I grudgingly authorized a return. Buyer never returned anything, never even provided return tracking info. Yet he’s been escalating this to eBay and now filing a chargeback with his credit card company. After less than 10 minutes with eBay support, they admit that this buyer has a pattern of doing this exact scam. Just follow the steps and provide the requested info and I’ll be fine, they said. I’m blown away that they know a buyer has a habit of doing this, yet continue to let them operate on the platform. Losing the couple hundred dollars wouldn’t be the end of the world, but I’m deeply frustrated that eBay is so heavily tilted toward the buyer that someone can develop a pattern of fraudulent chargebacks and false complaints with apparently no consequences.

AussieWog93 4y ago
Support's right, you'll win the case. If they open a return case, they need to send the item back. Happens all the time to us. >I’m deeply frustrated that eBay is so heavily tilted toward the buyer Their answer to this criticism is that siding with the buyer by default creates trust, which encourages more buyers to use the platform and therefore increases sales volume for their seller. I'm honestly inclined to agree. I'd much rather lose 1% of our revenue each year to fraud and unnecessary returns than 50% through buyer hesitation because they're not sure their items will work or even arrive.
- buck4roo 4y ago
  Counterfeits, fraud, and theft: Why Silca changed its return policy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32362363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32362363 Good insight into the merchant side of customer return fraud.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >Their answer to this criticism is that siding with the buyer by default creates trust, which encourages more buyers to use the platform and therefore increases sales volume for their seller. I'm honestly inclined to agree. I'm not: it depends on the seller. If you're a high-volume seller, then sure: a few bad transactions like this overall is the "price of doing business" because the popularity of the platform means you'll do much more sales volume, which more than makes up for a few shitty buyers. However, if you're a low-volume seller who's just using Ebay to sell your old stuff, with only a very small number of higher-value items sold per year, then even a single bad transaction like this can ruin your profit and make it not worth it to sell on this platform. Personally, I'm much more inclined to sell high-value stuff via Facebook Marketplace, in-person only, because of this possibility. Add in Ebay's high fees and FBM is really attractive, but the problem is you're limited to people in your local area. However, Ebay years ago decided they cared much more about the high-volume sellers than the regular Joes using it as a virtual garage sale venue, so this makes sense for Ebay and increasing their stock price. To be fair though, in my years of using Ebay as a low-volume individual, I haven't had many bad transactions, and have been able to sell off a lot of stuff.

NavinF 4y ago

Yeah I don't understand how it's even possible to get scammed. eBay always sides with the buyer and refunds them if the seller doesn't do it first. In the extremely unlikely chance that a buyer somehow loses an eBay dispute, they can still file a chargeback with their credit card.

dataflow 4y ago

> Honestly, it's been damn near impossible to scam someone via eBay (as a seller, at least) since around 2008 This is not true. Several sellers sent me broken version of a device I was looking for recently. In fact, it turned out that, for the device I was seeking recently, pretty much everyone who was selling around slightly (say, ~25%) below what I thought was the market price (for a used item!) was selling broken versions of it. The ones that were slightly more expensive actually worked.

AussieWog93 4y ago
Go to your purchase history here (substitute .com.au for your local site): https://www.ebay.com.au/mye/myebay/purchase https://www.ebay.com.au/mye/myebay/purchase You should see a button that says "Return this item" for your faulty product. Click it, go through the prompts and complain that it wasn't as described. In the description field, write "broken". If the seller hasn't set up a proper RMA process, the system will automatically generate a return label. Once you lodge the return using that label, you win the case (regardless of hwo well the fault was described by the seller). The seller will also be billed for the label.
- dataflow 4y ago
  I'm aware, I already did that. And yes, I got my money back. That seems completely beside your "it's near-impossible to scam people since 2008" point though? Unless your position is "it's only a scam if it succeeds"?
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    There's a legitimate market for faulty electronics, which I personally participate as both a buyer and a seller. People buying something without realising it's faulty is an expensive problem for me, as it inevitably means a return which is both time consuming and leaves me on the hook for postage both ways (return postage usually being a more expensive method). If they're trying to scam with it, I doubt they'd get very far as it's extremely expensive and ruins your metrics.

brudgers 4y ago

The current scam on eBay is to provide a tracking number to the same Zip Code as the purchaser. These tracking numbers are attached to the sale after the tracking number shows delivery. By default eBay will close undelivered item cases because the tracking number shows the item was delivered. Appealing the closed case is possible, but the link to appeal is difficult to find and the level of proof required is high. I know because it happened to me and it took going to my local post office, talking to the postmaster, and getting the USPS internal tracking log. And that required convincing the postmaster I would not try to recover the package from the home where it was delivered. I assured the postmaster that this was a scam, and it helped my post office serves an affluent zip code, It was a ridiculous amount of time and effort for the amount involved. This is not to dig on eBay. I still prefer it to Amazon. But that’s the scam you can use if you are so inclined. Not that I am suggesting you are.

crazygringo 4y ago

> The only fraud you still get is friendly fraud from buyers. Nope, I've had 3 different sellers run the exact same scam on me. Each time it was an item not even close to as described -- e.g. damaged and used when advertised as new, an old inferior model different from the one advertised, etc. No problem, I can understand people make mistakes so I ask for a return and they send a prepaid label, I ship it back. But turns out they've manually entered a totally different tracking number in eBay's system for the return label tracking info. I ship the item back but obviously it never shows to eBay as delivered or even sent in the first place, and there's no way in the user UX to correct the tracking info to the label you sent. The only way to resolve it is to call eBay, except that's almost impossible because it has to be a callback initiated through a link on their website, and if you've called too many times before, they stop showing the link. (Turns out there's still a way to do it, clicking through several links in the support center, as long as you're not logged in so they don't know you're the one "using up" their phone support.) Because the actual return label is in their message to me, a customer service rep eventually decides I'm right, they can manually see that label was delivered, and so they'll initiate a full refund but it will take several days. But every time, the refund doesn't go through. You have to wait a couple of weeks, call them again, explain the whole process again, and then the refund will go through on the second attempt. (All 3 cases, it required the second try.) Three times, three different sellers trying to offload junk on me instead of the actual new item, and using this "wrong return label tracking number" scam so not only does it not get refunded but they get the original (albeit crappy) merchandise back too! Definitely a full hour of work to deal with eBay after each one to get the return fixed and actually refunded, and I imagine most people can't even get someone on the phone to do it. (Chat and messages simply didn't work or get responded to, or they were unhelpful autoresponses.)

treis 4y ago
I've lost out on buyer's protection through similar eBay shenanigans. I opened a dispute and the seller didn't respond. But that doesn't mean you win as a buyer. There's an additional step you have to take in order to claim your victory. Some arbitrary clock ran out by the time I noticed it was too late.
veltas 4y ago

ValueAddedRS 4y ago

There are easy ways to scam on eBay as a seller - you just have to know what is and is not covered by eBay's Money Back Guarantee for buyers and make sure what you are doing purposely deprives buyers of that protection. Two examples that I've seen play out repeatedly in recent history: List a pre-sale item that is 60-90 days out, with no intention of actually shipping anything. By the time the buyer realizes they've been had, it will be past the time they can file an eMBG claim and eBay will tell them "too bad." Or list hot items like a Steam Deck or MoonSwatch under "Specialty services" or "Business and Industrial Equipment" instead of the correct category (again with no intention of actually shipping anything)...if some poor sucker doesn't notice and buys it any way, once again eBay will tell them "too bad" because those special categories are exempt from the money back guarantee. Sure in both of those cases, buyers can resort back to a chargeback with their payment method, but eBay absolutely allows the scam to happen and typically does nothing on their side to prevent it proactively or assist the buyer after the fact. And then of course there's the perennial favorite - send an envelope with a piece of paper to an address in the same zip code as the buyer so you have tracking with a delivery scan and any "item not received" claim will instantly be closed in the seller's favor.

FireBeyond 4y ago
> Or list hot items like a Steam Deck or MoonSwatch under "Specialty services" or "Business and Industrial Equipment" instead of the correct category (again with no intention of actually shipping anything)...if some poor sucker doesn't notice and buys it any way, once again eBay will tell them "too bad" because those special categories are exempt from the money back guarantee. Back in the day, I knew people who'd make a fortune buying "Plam Pilot"s from eBay (because you couldn't edit your item title, and fuzzy search was not/barely a thing. They'd search out common typos, and buy and resell stuff that was just not getting any/many bids (this is before Buy It Now was a thing, too, though you might have guessed that from the Palm Pilot reference...)

sottol 4y ago

It's super easy: provide a valid FedEx tracking number to the proximate area code that is eventually marked as delivered, address and content don't matter. That's it. I ordered a drone, tracking showed 3 pallettes of 50lbs each, PayPal did nothing. If you're not the shipper, FedEx won't disclose the destination address despite having the tracking number and PayPal won't lift a finger no matter how often you tell them that's not your actually your zip code or that drones don't weigh 150lbs. Afaik it's FedEx specifically. That's when I was done with PayPal. I was not happy when ebay introduced their own payment system with forced KYC but PayPal is worse.

fasthands9 4y ago

I bought a raspberry pi off eBay earlier this year for about $120. It was fried and didnt actually work and was able to return it for a full refund. Seller was super nice - but I imagine the reason they were nice is because they didnt want me to make an extra report about them. They prob had to pay for the $10 I spent to ship it back (unless it comes out of eBay?) but either way they can try that 10 more times and try to turn a profit on an otherwise valueless item.

nullc 4y ago
I've wondered before if there isn't a nice business for scammers on ebay where they buy high value broken parts for nothing then sell them and graciously accept returns from anyone who notices. Eventually the part lands on someone's shelf as a spare or for a delayed project and the issue isn't discovered until long after the return window. I doubt this would pan out for a rpi-- too low a price relative to the cost of accepting a couple returns. But there are many items it probably would work for...
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  You could try it, but all you'd achieve is paying half a dozen lots of return postage before getting your account limited for having bad metrics.
  - nullc 4y ago
    Can't you just also sell some random cheap crap (perhaps via drop-shipping) to pad the activity on your account and avoid having a bad rate of returns?
    - AussieWog93 4y ago
      I mean, you could, but you'd still just continually be paying for returns on faulty items over and over again.
      - 4y ago

guywithahat 4y ago

I disagree, I've been the victim of dropship scams before and despite it being strictly against both eBay and Amazon's TOS there's not even an avenue for reporting as a buyer. I've also definitely received used/returned items which were marketed as "new". I think the nature of scamming is changing, but there are definitely scammers

ValueAddedRS 4y ago
I'm assuming you're talking about situations where someone lists an item they don't have on eBay, then have it "drop shipped" from another seller on Amazon once it sells (or vice versa)? If so, you might be interested to know the INFORM act requires sellers who meet the $20K threshold to disclose if a different seller is shipping the item and if so, if the buyer request, they have to provide the contact info for that seller. "Whether the high-volume third party seller used a different seller to supply the consumer product to the consumer upon purchase, and, upon the request of an authenticated purchaser, the information described in clause (i) relating to any such seller that supplied the consumer product to the purchaser, if such seller is different than the high-volume third party seller listed on the product listing prior to purchase." I know a lot of buyers have been frustrated with this kind of online arbitrage drop shipping for years and most of the marketplaces don't enforce their policies about it - it will be interesting to see if this helps curb the practice.

drfuchs 4y ago

Contrary wise, I ordered 8 of an item on eBay, and received only 2. The fact that the full FedEx shipping weight wasn’t enough for even 4, and that the box wasn’t physically big enough to fit the items (pictures provided in my complaint), didn’t dissuade eBay from declaring that the seller had “confirmed” that they had shipped the correct number, tough luck for me.

jrs235 4y ago
I experienced a similar thing from purchasing something from a fraud (realized what happened after I submitted payment) website that used PayPal for payment. PayPal refused to follow or investigate what I was saying and found. I had to get my credit card company to issue a charge back. They listened to me. I told them how to call FedEx with the tracking number and that FedEx cannot divulge the actual delivery address but they are allowed to verify if the package was delivered to a given (one's home) address. The scammers send a package with tracking number to an address in the same zip code and have people grab/pickup the package, or they have access to FedEx's system and can look up package tracking numbers. The size and weight of the packages won't make any sense for the dimensions of the item(s) purchased too. PayPal also refuses to close the PayPal account associated with the scam website!
jacob019 4y ago
You need to open a not as described return, not a non-receipt case.

nullc 4y ago

Some older methods of seller fraud don't work anymore, but there are plenty of new ones that do. I had a seller try to steal $20k from me-- and they told me right out that eBay wouldn't refund it. They were right. In my case the seller sent an item which was ultimately delivered back to them (they seem to have intentionally munged the delivery details so that a delivery to me was never even attempted). The tracking however ultimately showed "delivered" and that's all eBay cared about. I even got a phone recording of the seller admitting they had it back then demanding more money from me to send it again! Ebay didn't care. (Maybe the seller actually would have come through if I'd paid their ransom but I surely wasn't going to send more money to someone who was trying to screw me over) Through extraordinary effort I even got the full detailed shipment history, including showing it going back to the seller's address (which AFAICT the shipper wasn't really supposed to give me but I basically spent a whole day at their offices). Ebay didn't care, they demanded a letter from FedEx corp on Fedex letter head saying the package wasn't delivered to me (even though you could just see that from the cities named in the online tracking-- it never even made it into my state). I couldn't find any way to extract such a thing from Fedex even with another trip back to their offices. So ebay ruled against me, absurd. Fortunately I was still within the window to reverse the charge on my credit card (though ebay wasted enough time that I almost wasn't)-- and the credit card took care of it. Back to the topic: This law would have done nothing for me. I was already able to track down the sellers identity without difficulty-- but what am I to do with that? I could sue them at great cost with years of trouble and time and a substantial risk that I get nothing-- including my legal costs-- because they're bankrupt or vanish. Honestly I would have much rather spent my time and money suing eBay since at least there would be a possibility of recovery if I won. My entire problem was ebay's pants on head stupid policy that regarded a package as delivered to me even when the tracking made it completely clear that it wasn't. I don't think the seller even had to lie to ebay: they simply had to respond "Here is the delivered tracking number: xyz".

FireBeyond 4y ago
> My entire problem was ebay's pants on head stupid policy that regarded a package as delivered to me even when the tracking made it completely clear that it wasn't. I don't think the seller even had to lie to ebay: they simply had to respond "Here is the delivered tracking number: xyz". Yup. With apologies to the BOFH comics of old... "Click. Delivered. Close dispute. Clickety-click. On to the next one." > Back to the topic: This law would have done nothing for me. I was already able to track down the sellers identity without difficulty-- but what am I to do with that? I could sue them at great cost with years of trouble and time and a substantial risk that I get nothing-- including my legal costs-- because they're bankrupt or vanish. Honestly I would have much rather spent my time and money suing eBay since at least there would be a possibility of recovery if I won. A month after "losing" a phone a guy calls me from a couple of states away. "Hey, I bought a phone on eBay and it's apparently yours. If you got a new one through insurance, could you unlock it for me? I mean, I know it sucks, but you got a new phone and this way I am not getting scammed too". Set of balls on him. I said I wasn't willing to do that, because how do I know he wasn't responsible for my phone being "lost"? So we figured something out. He reached out to the seller, asked for a refund. Seller said "pound sand". I didn't know at the time, but the seller lived -very- close to me. He says to seller. "I am in contact with the legitimate owner of the phone. Refund me or he gets all your contact details." Seller refunds. Buyer gives me all his info anyway. I check out his eBay page, and it's the most blatant case of selling stolen electronics ever. Not just "broken/parts only". But 50+ MacBooks, most "missing charger/accessories", same with phones "no accessories included, as-is". I look at the listing for mine and the IMEI is on the page, to give the illusion of legitimacy. But the last two digits are transposed, so it's not valid. To a cursory buyer, "must be legit, or he wouldn't put the IMEI on the page", to me, who lost my phone, in the event I searched the IMEI, no results. All of the IMEIs were like this, last two digits transposed. Call the police. "Hey, this guy is selling hundreds of thousands of stolen goods". They could not care less. "Well, he probably didn't steal them himself" Uhh? Fairly sure that's still a crime, especially when it's obvious from your listings that you're covering that up. "Not much we can do. Sorry." Whatever. I resisted the urge to drive to his house and pour sugar and water in his gas, but only just.

null_object 4y ago

> it’s been damn near impossible to scam someone via eBay… I got scammed by an eBay seller with thousands of transactions, and an almost faultless history. He shipped me a ‘brand new’ Punkt phone, but when it arrived it was in really bad shape: not only was it scuffed and scratched, there was about a year’s worth of call-history on it. I made the mistake of contacting him first - and he immediately opened a complaint against me with eBay - meaning I was unable to leave a review of the sale (therefore his impeccable record). In the end, because I had pictures and evidence of the phone having been used, next to screenshots of the sales page describing the phone as totally brand new, I eventually got my money back. But nowadays I only buy from stores on eBay.

bbbbb5 4y ago
This seems like an example of a scam not working on eBay.
- null_object 4y ago
  > This seems like an example of a scam not working on eBay It did work, because even though I got my money back and returned the phone, the mechanics of the complaints process - and his immediate opening of an issue against me - meant that I was never able to warn others of his dishonesty. This is a seller that had “100% perfect” transactions.
  - bbbbb5 4y ago
    >This is a seller that had “100% perfect” transactions. Won't save them, eBay will close their account after a couple of disputes like yours.

imtringued 4y ago

Fraud is much easier on Amazon since Amazon has product pages for multiple sellers. On eBay every seller lists their own products as a separate listing. This means on Amazon you can be fooled into thinking that you are buying from Amazon, but in reality the product you are getting is from a random seller. What this tells you is that Amazon doesn't care about getting rid of scammers. They are part of the business model.