4 ms·

This and the newsfeed not being chronological, or the option to have it chronological being hidden from the user (that’s one of the most recurring question and

by baby 4y ago

This and the newsfeed not being chronological, or the option to have it chronological being hidden from the user (that’s one of the most recurring question and feature request that internal employees ask, how crazy is that). IMO facebook could really change by creating a subscription and ensuring that people who subscribe are happy enough with the product to keep paying. I think that recenters the incentives towards building something for the user. Another meta problem is that there seem to be no authoritative product person that can force his/her vision on the product so you get hundreds of visions colliding and fighting for changes. IMO it’s much more valuable to have a coherent vision being enforced for the product, otherwise you get this frankenstein-like collection of apps. Finally, the fact that HN is such a hater of facebook means that most fb engineers have deserted HN and they’re not reading the excellent ideas and feedback that this community sometimes provide. It’s a shame, because I still completely believe in Facebook as a good product for the world.

Raed667 4y ago
The assumption is that chronological feed makes for less engagement, and if your business model is to sell eyeballs, that creates an intensive to hide it and make your KPIs better.
- baby 4y ago
  They’d get more money from me by making me pay for a subscription
sweettea 4y ago
There is a 'Most Recent' option for several years which provides chronological newsfeed: https://m.facebook.com/help/218728138156311/how-do-i-see-the-most-recent-posts-in-my-feed-on-facebook%3F/ https://m.facebook.com/help/218728138156311/how-do-i-see-the... . It isn't well known, for sure.
- Lammy 4y ago
  “You can sort your Feed to see recent posts, but Feed will eventually return to its default setting.”
mokash 4y ago
consider that the goal of facebook is not to build a 'good product for the world'. facebook exists to 1) keep your attention 2) extract as much data as it can 3) make inferences where necessary/possible 4) sell targeted ads. facebook is an ad business. to that end, they do try to improve the user experience wherever necessary to advance the goals stated above, but that's it.
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
  5) psychological studies 6) modify your behaviour 7) train AI https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook-manipulated-689003-users-emotions-for-science/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook...
- baby 4y ago
  It definitely wasn’t for the longest time, it’s only once they started getting revenue from ads that they became this behemoth.
lordnacho 4y ago
Strangely I just closed my FB tab, and then I landed on this HN story. I was looking through it, and it started scrolling on its own. Dozens and dozens of stories flashed before me. Something is really odd, FB has lost a fair bit of my online time recently. I think you may be right. Just let me pay a few bucks and just show me my friends.
- firecall 4y ago
  I worked out that it doesn't show me my Friends posts as my Friends don't post anything anymore! Scrolling through Facebook is like walking through an Outlet Mall in a foreign country.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    > my Friends don't post anything anymore! Which is understandable, because FB optimizes for clickability and shows very few posts of those who rarely post (and whose posts really deserve attention imo) so after seeing no reaction from their friends ("are they ignoring me?" - no, FB just decided not to include your post in their feeds) they just gave up.
glitchcrab 4y ago
There is less than a snowball's chance in hell of me paying Meta for the privilege of using a less fucked version of their product. I just actively avoid using it instead and I would wager that my life is better off for it.
- eastbound 4y ago
  So Twitter has at least the power to charge users, whereas Facebook is inherently so bad that willing users wouldn’t even let Facebook have their CC details…
  - TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
    If both come up with a way to be paid anonymously, and I get to be full owner of my data, then I will consider rejoining and paying.
  - baby 4y ago
    They already have a lot of users CC due to messenger pay, ads listing, etc.
- baby 4y ago
  Personally I pay for twitter blue and I would pay for a facebook subscription
college_physics 4y ago
> I still completely believe in Facebook as a good product for the world. Well, people believe the craziest things so you are in good company. But on the important point on whether facebook is salvageable with a user subscription model: extremely dubious. In some sense adtech has ruined the concept of users paying for a good product and there is poetic justice in that. The magic wand that turns users into product wont turn product into client. What might work is "social as public or semi-public infrastructure", namely getting cities, companies, states or even countries paying for user accounts of residents, employees etc. as a sort of benefit. But even in the unlikely scenario facebook would relinquish its residual adtech earnings in favor of a new and less lucrative business model it would likely face stiff competition from newcomers with less historical baggage
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  > companies...paying for user accounts So it seems my company is doing that (it's called "workplace from meta" now) and it's ridiculous as you get the worst of both worlds.
- baby 4y ago
  > Well, people believe the craziest things so you are in good company. I assume people who say that haven’t had a good experience with fb, but it changed my life when I was younger. I still use to track all my friends across the world. > In some sense adtech has ruined the concept of users paying for a good product and there is poetic justice in that Twitter blue
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
makeitdouble 4y ago
On subscriptions…They tried some paying mechanism already, and I think Linkedin ate their lunch before they had a chance to try other low hanging fruits. Subscriptions work when either the user makes money from pushing the content, or actively wants the content they’re provided. On the former, boosted spam has already been implemented, ultra targeted ads are another form of this, and stalking users to push private messages to them is already Linkedin’s bread and butter. On the latter, the issue is of course that the “content” (people’s post) isn’t and won’t be worth paying for in general. I won’t be paying to read my relatives bickering about stupid issues. Random people’s funny takes and viral jokes will be spread on other networks so paying for it won’t make sense either. I’ll subscribe to my favorite novel, manga or tv show, or check a well put newsletter or podcast. None of that has a place on the blue app. Facebook at this point has a very specific niche, and trying to get out of that niche either puts it in competition with better/less toxic/griftier services, or canibalizes other meta products. In that sense pushing facebook in a completely new direction is a tall order. If a PM had a crazy novel idea, they’d better execute it in Instagram or a completely new product than have it get beaten to death in facebook. > haters I was following a bunch of very talented and idea prolific designers and engineers working at facebook. IMO they haven’t left HN or Twitter or the public place. They left facebook instead.
- baby 4y ago
  > They left facebook instead Or were laid off :)) But more seriously I still believe in fb. I still know a lot of great people there.

by baby 4y ago

Raed667 4y ago

The assumption is that chronological feed makes for less engagement, and if your business model is to sell eyeballs, that creates an intensive to hide it and make your KPIs better.

baby 4y ago
They’d get more money from me by making me pay for a subscription

sweettea 4y ago

There is a 'Most Recent' option for several years which provides chronological newsfeed: https://m.facebook.com/help/218728138156311/how-do-i-see-the-most-recent-posts-in-my-feed-on-facebook%3F/ https://m.facebook.com/help/218728138156311/how-do-i-see-the... . It isn't well known, for sure.

Lammy 4y ago
“You can sort your Feed to see recent posts, but Feed will eventually return to its default setting.”

mokash 4y ago

consider that the goal of facebook is not to build a 'good product for the world'. facebook exists to 1) keep your attention 2) extract as much data as it can 3) make inferences where necessary/possible 4) sell targeted ads. facebook is an ad business. to that end, they do try to improve the user experience wherever necessary to advance the goals stated above, but that's it.

TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
5) psychological studies 6) modify your behaviour 7) train AI https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook-manipulated-689003-users-emotions-for-science/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2014/06/28/facebook...
baby 4y ago
It definitely wasn’t for the longest time, it’s only once they started getting revenue from ads that they became this behemoth.

lordnacho 4y ago

Strangely I just closed my FB tab, and then I landed on this HN story. I was looking through it, and it started scrolling on its own. Dozens and dozens of stories flashed before me. Something is really odd, FB has lost a fair bit of my online time recently. I think you may be right. Just let me pay a few bucks and just show me my friends.

firecall 4y ago
I worked out that it doesn't show me my Friends posts as my Friends don't post anything anymore! Scrolling through Facebook is like walking through an Outlet Mall in a foreign country.
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  > my Friends don't post anything anymore! Which is understandable, because FB optimizes for clickability and shows very few posts of those who rarely post (and whose posts really deserve attention imo) so after seeing no reaction from their friends ("are they ignoring me?" - no, FB just decided not to include your post in their feeds) they just gave up.

glitchcrab 4y ago

There is less than a snowball's chance in hell of me paying Meta for the privilege of using a less fucked version of their product. I just actively avoid using it instead and I would wager that my life is better off for it.

eastbound 4y ago
So Twitter has at least the power to charge users, whereas Facebook is inherently so bad that willing users wouldn’t even let Facebook have their CC details…
- TEP_Kim_Il_Sung 4y ago
  If both come up with a way to be paid anonymously, and I get to be full owner of my data, then I will consider rejoining and paying.
- baby 4y ago
  They already have a lot of users CC due to messenger pay, ads listing, etc.
baby 4y ago
Personally I pay for twitter blue and I would pay for a facebook subscription

college_physics 4y ago

> I still completely believe in Facebook as a good product for the world. Well, people believe the craziest things so you are in good company. But on the important point on whether facebook is salvageable with a user subscription model: extremely dubious. In some sense adtech has ruined the concept of users paying for a good product and there is poetic justice in that. The magic wand that turns users into product wont turn product into client. What might work is "social as public or semi-public infrastructure", namely getting cities, companies, states or even countries paying for user accounts of residents, employees etc. as a sort of benefit. But even in the unlikely scenario facebook would relinquish its residual adtech earnings in favor of a new and less lucrative business model it would likely face stiff competition from newcomers with less historical baggage

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
> companies...paying for user accounts So it seems my company is doing that (it's called "workplace from meta" now) and it's ridiculous as you get the worst of both worlds.
baby 4y ago
> Well, people believe the craziest things so you are in good company. I assume people who say that haven’t had a good experience with fb, but it changed my life when I was younger. I still use to track all my friends across the world. > In some sense adtech has ruined the concept of users paying for a good product and there is poetic justice in that Twitter blue

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

makeitdouble 4y ago

On subscriptions…They tried some paying mechanism already, and I think Linkedin ate their lunch before they had a chance to try other low hanging fruits. Subscriptions work when either the user makes money from pushing the content, or actively wants the content they’re provided. On the former, boosted spam has already been implemented, ultra targeted ads are another form of this, and stalking users to push private messages to them is already Linkedin’s bread and butter. On the latter, the issue is of course that the “content” (people’s post) isn’t and won’t be worth paying for in general. I won’t be paying to read my relatives bickering about stupid issues. Random people’s funny takes and viral jokes will be spread on other networks so paying for it won’t make sense either. I’ll subscribe to my favorite novel, manga or tv show, or check a well put newsletter or podcast. None of that has a place on the blue app. Facebook at this point has a very specific niche, and trying to get out of that niche either puts it in competition with better/less toxic/griftier services, or canibalizes other meta products. In that sense pushing facebook in a completely new direction is a tall order. If a PM had a crazy novel idea, they’d better execute it in Instagram or a completely new product than have it get beaten to death in facebook. > haters I was following a bunch of very talented and idea prolific designers and engineers working at facebook. IMO they haven’t left HN or Twitter or the public place. They left facebook instead.

baby 4y ago
> They left facebook instead Or were laid off :)) But more seriously I still believe in fb. I still know a lot of great people there.