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My amateur theory is that talking makes you less likely to be a predator. You basically say “here I am”, Predators tend to be quiet and sneak up on their prey.

by prox 4y ago

My amateur theory is that talking makes you less likely to be a predator. You basically say “here I am”, Predators tend to be quiet and sneak up on their prey. I think the tone does indeed help somewhat in my experience.

lisper 4y ago
Yes, of course. Your tone has to convey not only, "I am not a predator" but also "I do not perceive you as a threat, and so the purpose of my vocalization is not to scare you away because I perceive you as a threat, and if you come close I am likely to try to harm you in order to defend myself." In nature, the Bayesian prior on an entity that is not a member of your species, or even your tribe, seeking an interaction with you that will ultimately be to your benefit is very, very low.
- 082349872349872 4y ago
  > the Bayesian prior ... is very, very low. Felis Catus: OK, stubclaws, listen up. You're going to toil the fields and by the sweat of your brow fill up a barn to attract my mice. Got that? Agriculture, Architecture, the works? Good. I'd explain to you how to make laser pointers for chasing, but I doubt you'd understand ... your kind always has to work things out for themselves, anyway. Now go forth and do your best to hold this covenant, you inflexible hairless monkey.
  - lisper 4y ago
    You owe me a new keyboard ;-)
    - tareqak 4y ago
      Felis Catus: Correction, human. It was always my keyboard. You were just using it without my permission, and I reappropriated it when I felt like it. Now, go get me some wet cat food for your slanderous outburst before I send you to the cat food factory permanently.
  - polishdude20 4y ago
    Is this from a book?
    - numeri 4y ago
      I'd read it, if so!
    - 082349872349872 4y ago
      Sorry, nope. Had one of my replies called a "nonsensical answer produced by an AI" in a different thread, so I done did my best to outpace the machine with that one. When 082... was jus' a little baby, sittin' on their papa's knee Well they picked up a keyboard and a little CRT Said keyboard gon' be the death of me, lord, lord Keyboard gon' be the death of me https://youtu.be/lY_s42QvOTs?t=50 https://youtu.be/lY_s42QvOTs?t=50
- maxbond 4y ago
  Hummingbirds I've noticed are very curious about other creatures. To a fault even, mantises will sometimes exploit this to catch hummingbirds (they are much more powerful than you might expect). I don't know if this is universal across hummingbird species/groups, but I'm able get very close to them by just patiently standing still by the feeder for 10 or 15 minutes, and they'll start investigating me.
  - gonehome 4y ago
    My sister had one land on her finger and point with its head to which flowers it wanted her to move her hand to. This was without a feeder, but in an area with lots of people around (at a winery).
    - quercusa 4y ago
      We used to have one that would hover in front of our kitchen window when the feeder (at the other end of the house) was empty.
  - anthomtb 4y ago
    I have noticed this about hummingbirds as well. We have a feeder on our deck and if you are out there when they are feeding expect to receive an inspection. I like to think the thought in their brain is “are you a flower?” I’ve also had a hummingbird come within a few centimeters of landing on my hand while mounting biking (stopped, of course). I credit my new-at-the-time bright red gloves for that interaction.
    - b112 4y ago
      Most hummingbirds are opportunistic eaters, and also eat insects. Such as knats and such, which love humans. So they may be looking for a meal, too.
  - dreamcompiler 4y ago
    I can go outside holding a feeder and as long as I stand still, after about a minute the hummers will feed while I'm holding the thing. Brave little birds.
- Retric 4y ago
  There are quite a few symbiotic relationships in nature. There are several examples where small birds, mammals, fish, or even some invertebrates clean much larger animals. The exchange straightforward, large animal gets clean smaller one eats the parasites, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_symbiosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_symbiosis
  - lisper 4y ago
    > There are quite a few symbiotic relationships in nature. Yes, of course, but unless such a relationship is already established the odds are very much against a random encounter between different species being mutually beneficial.
    - Retric 4y ago
      The interesting bit around cleaning is the relationships are between individual animals rather than being species wide. Some species of fish for example will mix in removal of parasites with drinking some blood and larger animals eating the cleaners also happens.
      - jakzurr 4y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cleanerfish https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cleanerfish These things are incredible. (Or incredibly mean?)
082349872349872 4y ago
I have an amateur theory that strange wildlife, unlike strange people, are made much more comfortable by avoiding eye contact. Parent comment would explain this observation: predators gaze upon their prey. (flipping the arrows around, I've seen the advice to dance tango, not so much with "snappiness" as is popularly supposed, but in a predatory manner: slow stalking, interspersed with rapid pounces)
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  This is definitely true for dogs/canids, eye contact is a signal of dominance and/or aggression. It’s common advice to soften your glance if you’re approaching an unfamiliar or potentially aggressive dog. It’s also helpful to make more direct eye contact when establishing you’re in charge when training them. I’ve also noticed with many birds that they prefer indirect attention. This includes not just eye contact, but pointing a camera (or really anything) in their direction. Which unfortunately means I have very little photographic evidence of the many times I’ve had birds just hanging around being pleasant companions for a while.
  - mcbits 4y ago
    The birds around here don't stick around long enough to let me earn their trust, but I can get pretty close to the deer, rabbits, and squirrels just by pointing the camera off to my side so I'm standing perpendicular and appear to be focused on stuff on the ground instead of them.
    - eyelidlessness 4y ago
      Oh damn I meant to mention rabbits! At least the ones around me don’t even mind if I point a camera at them so long as I’m looking another way. So I have lots of good blurry or poorly aimed rabbit photos. They really do seem to believe that if they go totally still nothing can see them until proven otherwise. And maybe they’re right, I almost always have to tell my pup “there’s a bun!” And even then it’s usually after I’ve directed her chase before she sees the fleeing things.
oasisbob 4y ago
Makes sense to me. Crows have caught me tree climbing under them during their evening flights to the communal roost, the result was always a chaotic mess. They just couldn't leave it alone. Without fail, eventually one crow would notice and start the alarm call, then the hundreds of crows arriving at the situation would break off flight and begin mobbing as well. I must have seemed very novel and sneaky. https://youtu.be/RuOVY4r9ipg https://youtu.be/RuOVY4r9ipg
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
  Great video. Were you scared? I once walked under some trees in which many crows were roosting. Scared the crap out of me. I thought they were going to attack. Maybe they had young and wanted to protect them, I don’t know, but I ran.
  - oasisbob 4y ago
    Thanks. It was a bit scary the first time, but they keep their distance. No resident crows in this grove, afaik. Sometimes I wonder if I'm already being recognized as "that weird tree guy", even on the ground, and what it would take to test that.
- tomxor 4y ago
  I sometimes end up crossing paths with birds while rock climbing. You try to avoid them where possible (especially if they are protected/endangered) but it's not always possible to spot them from the ground. Peregrines will warn you by swooping past you really fast, even if you are 10s of meters to the side of their nest. It can sometimes end up in a weird kind of stand off, where they can see your path is through their nest or perch but they don't really know what your intent is so you just end up staring at each other. The most aggressive I came across was a big seagull, which I'm pretty sure was protecting it's eggs since it clearly wasn't going to move, thankfully that line was easy enough that I could just figure out an alternate way around. Climbing you also sometimes get to see some of the horrific remains from the predators - One time towards the end of covid lockdowns some peregrines had reclaimed a pinnacle due to the unusual absence of climbers. When I got to the top it looked like a sacrificial temple, filled with the carcases of all the other bird species, not to mention the bees nest en route, that one was a mini adventure.
busyant 4y ago
> talking makes you less likely to be a predator For a second I thought I was dead. But, when I heard all the noise, I knew they were cops. Only cops talk that way. If they'd been wiseguys, I wouldn't have heard a thing. I would've been dead. -Henry Hill, Goodfellas
agumonkey 4y ago
yeah, the more information you give the less danger others feel

by prox 4y ago

lisper 4y ago

Yes, of course. Your tone has to convey not only, "I am not a predator" but also "I do not perceive you as a threat, and so the purpose of my vocalization is not to scare you away because I perceive you as a threat, and if you come close I am likely to try to harm you in order to defend myself." In nature, the Bayesian prior on an entity that is not a member of your species, or even your tribe, seeking an interaction with you that will ultimately be to your benefit is very, very low.

082349872349872 4y ago
> the Bayesian prior ... is very, very low. Felis Catus: OK, stubclaws, listen up. You're going to toil the fields and by the sweat of your brow fill up a barn to attract my mice. Got that? Agriculture, Architecture, the works? Good. I'd explain to you how to make laser pointers for chasing, but I doubt you'd understand ... your kind always has to work things out for themselves, anyway. Now go forth and do your best to hold this covenant, you inflexible hairless monkey.
- lisper 4y ago
  You owe me a new keyboard ;-)
  - tareqak 4y ago
    Felis Catus: Correction, human. It was always my keyboard. You were just using it without my permission, and I reappropriated it when I felt like it. Now, go get me some wet cat food for your slanderous outburst before I send you to the cat food factory permanently.
- polishdude20 4y ago
  Is this from a book?
  - numeri 4y ago
    I'd read it, if so!
  - 082349872349872 4y ago
    Sorry, nope. Had one of my replies called a "nonsensical answer produced by an AI" in a different thread, so I done did my best to outpace the machine with that one. When 082... was jus' a little baby, sittin' on their papa's knee Well they picked up a keyboard and a little CRT Said keyboard gon' be the death of me, lord, lord Keyboard gon' be the death of me https://youtu.be/lY_s42QvOTs?t=50 https://youtu.be/lY_s42QvOTs?t=50
maxbond 4y ago
Hummingbirds I've noticed are very curious about other creatures. To a fault even, mantises will sometimes exploit this to catch hummingbirds (they are much more powerful than you might expect). I don't know if this is universal across hummingbird species/groups, but I'm able get very close to them by just patiently standing still by the feeder for 10 or 15 minutes, and they'll start investigating me.
- gonehome 4y ago
  My sister had one land on her finger and point with its head to which flowers it wanted her to move her hand to. This was without a feeder, but in an area with lots of people around (at a winery).
  - quercusa 4y ago
    We used to have one that would hover in front of our kitchen window when the feeder (at the other end of the house) was empty.
- anthomtb 4y ago
  I have noticed this about hummingbirds as well. We have a feeder on our deck and if you are out there when they are feeding expect to receive an inspection. I like to think the thought in their brain is “are you a flower?” I’ve also had a hummingbird come within a few centimeters of landing on my hand while mounting biking (stopped, of course). I credit my new-at-the-time bright red gloves for that interaction.
  - b112 4y ago
    Most hummingbirds are opportunistic eaters, and also eat insects. Such as knats and such, which love humans. So they may be looking for a meal, too.
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  I can go outside holding a feeder and as long as I stand still, after about a minute the hummers will feed while I'm holding the thing. Brave little birds.
Retric 4y ago
There are quite a few symbiotic relationships in nature. There are several examples where small birds, mammals, fish, or even some invertebrates clean much larger animals. The exchange straightforward, large animal gets clean smaller one eats the parasites, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_symbiosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_symbiosis
- lisper 4y ago
  > There are quite a few symbiotic relationships in nature. Yes, of course, but unless such a relationship is already established the odds are very much against a random encounter between different species being mutually beneficial.
  - Retric 4y ago
    The interesting bit around cleaning is the relationships are between individual animals rather than being species wide. Some species of fish for example will mix in removal of parasites with drinking some blood and larger animals eating the cleaners also happens.
    - jakzurr 4y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cleanerfish https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cleanerfish These things are incredible. (Or incredibly mean?)

082349872349872 4y ago

I have an amateur theory that strange wildlife, unlike strange people, are made much more comfortable by avoiding eye contact. Parent comment would explain this observation: predators gaze upon their prey. (flipping the arrows around, I've seen the advice to dance tango, not so much with "snappiness" as is popularly supposed, but in a predatory manner: slow stalking, interspersed with rapid pounces)

eyelidlessness 4y ago
This is definitely true for dogs/canids, eye contact is a signal of dominance and/or aggression. It’s common advice to soften your glance if you’re approaching an unfamiliar or potentially aggressive dog. It’s also helpful to make more direct eye contact when establishing you’re in charge when training them. I’ve also noticed with many birds that they prefer indirect attention. This includes not just eye contact, but pointing a camera (or really anything) in their direction. Which unfortunately means I have very little photographic evidence of the many times I’ve had birds just hanging around being pleasant companions for a while.
- mcbits 4y ago
  The birds around here don't stick around long enough to let me earn their trust, but I can get pretty close to the deer, rabbits, and squirrels just by pointing the camera off to my side so I'm standing perpendicular and appear to be focused on stuff on the ground instead of them.
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    Oh damn I meant to mention rabbits! At least the ones around me don’t even mind if I point a camera at them so long as I’m looking another way. So I have lots of good blurry or poorly aimed rabbit photos. They really do seem to believe that if they go totally still nothing can see them until proven otherwise. And maybe they’re right, I almost always have to tell my pup “there’s a bun!” And even then it’s usually after I’ve directed her chase before she sees the fleeing things.

oasisbob 4y ago

Makes sense to me. Crows have caught me tree climbing under them during their evening flights to the communal roost, the result was always a chaotic mess. They just couldn't leave it alone. Without fail, eventually one crow would notice and start the alarm call, then the hundreds of crows arriving at the situation would break off flight and begin mobbing as well. I must have seemed very novel and sneaky. https://youtu.be/RuOVY4r9ipg https://youtu.be/RuOVY4r9ipg

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
Great video. Were you scared? I once walked under some trees in which many crows were roosting. Scared the crap out of me. I thought they were going to attack. Maybe they had young and wanted to protect them, I don’t know, but I ran.
- oasisbob 4y ago
  Thanks. It was a bit scary the first time, but they keep their distance. No resident crows in this grove, afaik. Sometimes I wonder if I'm already being recognized as "that weird tree guy", even on the ground, and what it would take to test that.
tomxor 4y ago
I sometimes end up crossing paths with birds while rock climbing. You try to avoid them where possible (especially if they are protected/endangered) but it's not always possible to spot them from the ground. Peregrines will warn you by swooping past you really fast, even if you are 10s of meters to the side of their nest. It can sometimes end up in a weird kind of stand off, where they can see your path is through their nest or perch but they don't really know what your intent is so you just end up staring at each other. The most aggressive I came across was a big seagull, which I'm pretty sure was protecting it's eggs since it clearly wasn't going to move, thankfully that line was easy enough that I could just figure out an alternate way around. Climbing you also sometimes get to see some of the horrific remains from the predators - One time towards the end of covid lockdowns some peregrines had reclaimed a pinnacle due to the unusual absence of climbers. When I got to the top it looked like a sacrificial temple, filled with the carcases of all the other bird species, not to mention the bees nest en route, that one was a mini adventure.

busyant 4y ago

> talking makes you less likely to be a predator For a second I thought I was dead. But, when I heard all the noise, I knew they were cops. Only cops talk that way. If they'd been wiseguys, I wouldn't have heard a thing. I would've been dead. -Henry Hill, Goodfellas

agumonkey 4y ago

yeah, the more information you give the less danger others feel