12 ms·

Social media may prevent users from reaping creative rewards of profound boredom

425 points by nabla9 4y ago

tcmb 4y ago
I did not read the study, but the finding seems trivial and limited at the same time: Anything you do to alleviate or prevent boredom that is not creative can be said to 'prevent reaping creative rewards' of boredom. Not just social media (or any media consumption, really) but also sports or calling a friend or helping in a soup kitchen. If you didn't do it, you'd feel boredom, and might pick up something creative instead.
- nullish_signal 4y ago
  Sports use more muscles and cardio than social media scrolling. Phonecalls at least rely on speech instead of an algorithm deciding what to show you. Helping in a Soup Kitchen is obviously more productive than doom-scrolling. All of those examples are better uses of time than passively consuming "Social Media"
  - themitigating 4y ago
    "Phonecalls at least rely on speech instead of an algorithm deciding what to show you" People participate in social media. Think of all the creative content that exists. In your example you compared a two way phone call with only one part of social media. "Helping in a Soup Kitchen is obviously more productive than doom-scrolling." Though subjective, I agree with you. However without social media how many 14 year olds were helping at soup kitchens instead of watching TV, playing video games, or outside playing. You implied that social media was impacting selfless benevolent acts. This could even get complicated where I show that young people use social media in a positive way to call out social issues or make people aware of volunteer events. "All of those examples are better uses of time than passively consuming "Social Media" Again, social media doesn't have to be passive, your comment that I'm replying to and this reply show that. I believe you are letting your cynicism impact your view of social media
- armatav 4y ago
  “I did not read the study”
  - themitigating 4y ago
    I think he meant he read the conclusion or just the data. Still, when I see this line it's like a protection from from being wrong. "I'm not an expert but...." basically prevents judgement since they qualified their statement
  - jimmySixDOF 4y ago
    Leaning into the metaness of having this conversation on social media in social media and on the subject of it's shallowness, then detaching the headline takeaways from the study's detail as done here by GP is a useful case in point. Can a reasonable argument be made even against straw men ? Do the details matter when the sound byte talking head line is the lone subject of interest ?
    - jimmySixDOF 4y ago
      Note to downvoters : no opinion is offered here, for or against. Like it or not the memeification of a study like this compressed in to a couple of headlines which float off into the field of engagement on their own - that phenomenanon is a thing and would not happen if the bullet points didn't tap into a confirmation bias of pre existing wider interest in the topic being advanced in some small way through surfacing the conversation and I question if this holds true whatever the originating details might be. I certainly don't have a clear answer.
- rektide 4y ago
  Social media is distinct in that it's not one thing, one experience. It's many different experiences, that users are cut between, exposed to. Where-as calling a friend every hour doesnt make sense & would get repetitive, one can just drop into the feed of experiences whenever they want. Your point remains, certainly. But I do think there's a kind of unbridled access to novelty & other-peoples-creativeness that is indeed remarkably blunting when compared to most personal lives & options we'd have.
- mrbombastic 4y ago
  This is no doubt true but smart phones basically give you the option to never be bored, and get instant gratification whenever you feel like it. I don’t think it is limited to social media but I imagine there are pretty profound consequences to that.
  - Jensson 4y ago
    It is a self regulating problem, bored people create entertainment until there are no other bored people left. Modern tech makes that process more efficient so you have less bored people, I don't see why that is a problem.
    - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
      It's a problem if the things that people used to do while bored were useful and now that social media is handling the boredom problem those things are not happening anymore.
      - themitigating 4y ago
        Why is that a problem? What about video games or TV? What useful things are you talking about and is their evidence of their decline?
        __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
        Well here I am on HN, so I'm in a bit of a relapse, but personally I've noticed that not being on social media correlates with: - talking with strangers at the grocery store - working on my novel - building things in my garage - antagonizing institutions that I think have crossed a line And those things are meaningful to me in ways that being on social media is not. As for whether such activities trickle up into some kind of high level aggregate good, I don't know, but it's not hard to guess at how they might.
        tayo42 4y ago
        TV being a problem was talked to death for years. Now the attention is on streaming binges on Netflix. Not everyone likes or plays video games it doesn't have the same mass appeal
- Barrin92 4y ago
  however there's some pretty stark differences. Sport is inherently physically healthy, and working in a soup kitchen or doing some other charitable work has positive social effects. Much social media usage, despite the name, isn't very social at all. After a game of soccer with your friends you probably feel better both physically and mentally than after scrolling through twitter. The latter is more like reality tv combined with the worst news channel available.
meindnoch 4y ago
Do people still use social media that much?
- mdorazio 4y ago
  You're asking this question on a social media site...
  - chownie 4y ago
    I kind of object to that use of the term, when social media was coined it clearly did not apply to pseudonymous forum sites.
    - delecti 4y ago
      From what I can tell from a brief googling, the term "social media" was coined (or at least an early documented use was) by an AOL executive in 1997. I think that refutes your assertion. AOL usernames tended to be pretty pseudonymous.
  - baeaz 4y ago
    I disagree that this is a social media, I don't even look at the names of those who leave comments or those I reply to. It's like I'm reading and talking to the hivemind.
    - drstewart 4y ago
      I don't look at the names of commenters on Twitter or Instagram, so those aren't social media either?
    - mr_mitm 4y ago
      HN still serves as a source of distraction for time periods of arbitrary length. TikTok may also not be a social network, but it's distracting and addicting. The content on HN is just a bit more geared towards the intellectual (and The Algorithm is less powerful).
    - 4y ago
quaintdev 4y ago
The whole problem with social media is the feed. Remove that feed and replace it with something that is not the mechanism to keep users captive and most of the issues with social media are solved. One of the ways to achieve that is to make people at the center of app. The user chooses avatar from multiple avatars on main screen and view their updates. Once they have viewed someone's update they can go back do it for other, it becomes boring very fast and discourages app usage. No social media company is going to do this but something of this sort needs to happen.
- ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
  Correct. Infinite scroll and adaptive algorithms are the curse of social media.
- suketk 4y ago
  Exactly! It's the digital equivalent of placing the milk at the back of the grocery store. It's meant to distract you from why you're there in the first place. If anyone is interested, I wrote about why feeds are bad and how you can reduce your dependence on them. https://suketk.com/feeds-considered-harmful https://suketk.com/feeds-considered-harmful
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  I think it would have similar effect of reddit or youtube. 99% of the time I use reddit or youtube, it's started with search to jump straight to a topic. And that is better because the demand side is an active, the knowledge side is the sort of passive. So mediocre knowledge wouldn't have the money backed ads power to outperform the better knowledge or solution.
- trhr 4y ago
  I don't come on the orange site to feel attacked. I come here to mindlessly scroll the news.
- malikNF 4y ago
  With twitter setting your feed to show the latest instead of the top shows you the latest stuff from just the people you follow. [1] I have noticed doing this has massively reduced the amount of time I spend there. [1] https://mashable.com/article/set-twitter-timeline-most-recent-chronological https://mashable.com/article/set-twitter-timeline-most-recen...
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
I am reading Antifragile by Nassim Taleb, and one of his points is that much of invention happens either out of necessity or outside of structure vs traditional R&D / Academia. I was wondering how much social media filling in all spare time keeps people from tinkering and inventing and making progress. Though, I suspect the tinkers are still spending a lot of time tinkering - and only the people who have nothing better to do are spending most of their time on social media.
- adg001 4y ago
  There is a line of research according to which social media create addiction [0]. When we are addicted to social media, we have less and less time for tinkering and pushing the envelope, because a sizeable part of our time is claimed by such media. [0] Griffiths, M. D. (2012). Facebook addiction: Concerns, criticism, and recommendations: A response to Andreassen and colleagues. Psychological Reports, 110, 518–520. https://doi.org/10.2466/01.07.18.PR0.110.2.518-520 https://doi.org/10.2466/01.07.18.PR0.110.2.518-520
RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
> Dr Hill said the research sampled 15 participants of varying age, occupational and education backgrounds in England and the Republic of Ireland, These seems like very few people to be drawing such broad-ranging conclusions from.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  if the effect is strong you can see evidence in even small sample sizes.
swayvil 4y ago
A powerful, constant, extremely low-effort distraction. It's blinding to all of your senses and thoughts because as long as your attention is consumed by this fascinating object everything else is invisible. Walls of blindness surround you. A kind of invisible prison.
dreen 4y ago
Quit Twitter about 6 years ago because of related issues. Checked out Mastodon, but apart from the distributed aspect it just seems like more of the same, as in an evolution upon the experience of watching TV, in the internet era. I've been quite happy without it since.
- hecanjog 4y ago
  We followed a similar path and my experience was mostly the same. I wanted the fediverse to be a positive social thing in my life, I gave it a few years but in practice it felt sadly similar. Reading Amusing Ourselves to Death over the holiday helped me understand my relationship to infotainment a little better. (And I'm conflicted about this site too honestly...)
  - verzeichnis 4y ago
    This book should be required reading in school. I read it when I was around 18 and it vaccinated me profoundly for all things entertainment industry, be it video games, TV or social media. I partake, but there always comes a point where I get that Clockwork Orange gag reaction at some point and am driven away. And yes, this site is of quality content, but it is still the same opiate.
- amelius 4y ago
  Yet here you are on HN ;)
  - agileAlligator 4y ago
    I'm fine with HN personally because there is no infinite scrolling, plus a significant number of the posts/comments here teach me something new every day.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Sarcastic remark but I agree with you. Everytime there's some article about Netflix, Facebook, or the like there's a bunch of people telling everyone they quit and how their life is better, etc. Many times the article isn't even about quitting social media, just some controversy. I wonder if some percentage of those people are right-wing and wait for a chance to jump in so they can harm companies they disagree with.
Isamu 4y ago
Actually being creative requires work, a lot of it, and the people who are very creative think the work is fun or have accepted it. Best to get into a regular groove of doing your creative work on a predictable schedule. The opposite of being bored is cultivating your interests, treating them like a garden that takes work but grows over time into a variety of wonderful things.
- phkahler 4y ago
  Sounds like something to overcome boredom. Think how much free time they'd have without all that creative work.
- frereubu 4y ago
  I agree that many people think "being creative" is just swanning around being inspired, but all the high-level creative people I know are very hard-working. There's a great book called The Creative Habit by the choreographer Twyla Tharp which is an absolutely fantastic insight into what it takes to operate at a high level in the arts.
kevingadd 4y ago
It's certainly a way to waste time, but social media is also where I've found a lot of creative partners to work on side projects with, and it's where I've found a lot of inspiration too when looking at people's art, microfiction, etc. So I feel like for me it's probably at least net neutral when I use it properly instead of just doomscrolling.
highspeedbus 4y ago
There's a brazillian song called Tédio (Boredom) that was popular in the 80's. It talks about not withstanding boredom inside home, while life goes on out there. It's curious how the depicted feeling is so unrelatable today. I think boredom is a real force that pushes ourselves to the edge, to hopefully make a change in life, like going out to see real people. Social media creates this cozy, safe place to keep your mind occupied, letting life pass without realizing it.
- coffeebeqn 4y ago
  It’s very difficult when you have to make a conscious decision to.. be bored. I do think most people still get stimuli like loneliness that hopefully drives them out sometimes.
- 411111111111111 4y ago
  But why do people blame social media for that? Every entertainment is equally at fault, wherever it's fictions, movies, tv series, comics/webtoons, games etc
  - hnuser123456 4y ago
    Because it's too easy now. You need a creative endeavor to seem like an easy way to replace boredom with novelty. For a lot of folks especially younger ones, there is already infinite novelty just waiting to be scrolled all the time in their pocket. No need to do anything except wave your thumb around.
  - analog31 4y ago
    I don't think novelists have yet figured out how to completely occupy your cognitive apparatus or put you under pressure to stay engaged. When I'm sitting in my comfy chair reading a novel, I can close my eyes without worrying that I might miss something while I'm asleep.
    - 12345hn6789 4y ago
      How is this different than closing your phone, screen shotting a FB post, pausing your video? Really. Even live streams, for the most part, are able to be paused and watched at a later date albiet without chat interaction. I fail to see the difference.
nowherebeen 4y ago
I stopped using Reddit when I realized I was substituting my boredom with junk content. Even blocked it on my /etc/host for awhile.
bakugo 4y ago
> may I thought this was a well known observable fact. There are certain creative thought processes that only occur to me when I really have absolutely nothing else to think about, but that basically never happens anymore thanks to the internet. The only reason I'm even aware that I'm missing out on this is because it still happens when I take long showers, so basically the only time I don't have a phone or computer with me.
hkon 4y ago
I mean, through some hilarious coincidents a couple of years ago I found myself without internet at home for close to a month. I remember just sitting in my living room thinking, "man watching TV is boring, I would rather do <whatever productive thing>". The picture in the article could have been me. It had a magical just-do-it effect because I really had no better alternatives around.
faeriechangling 4y ago
Or maybe posting all our creative output on large searchable databases actually amplifies creativity due to tools like AI whereas aimless boredom tends to result in local efforts such as scribbling?
dahart 4y ago
> “Profound boredom may sound like an overwhelmingly negative concept but, in fact, it can be intensely positive if people are given the chance for undistracted thinking and development.” Is there historical evidence, from before social media or computers existed, that boredom made people productive or creative? I am worried about my kids never ever being bored, and the points in the article are tempting to believe, but when I think about history, I’m sure people were more lots more bored but not sure they were creatively doing any better than what we see today.
- kstenerud 4y ago
  Boredom is what led to pretty much every project I've ever done. I usually have a list in my head of things that could be made better, but they never come to anything until I have a lengthy period of nothing to do. Latest example: I had to take all my vacation time this year or else I'd lose it. I got so bored that I built this over the past weeks: https://github.com/kstenerud/kbnf https://github.com/kstenerud/kbnf
  - makeitdouble 4y ago
    I don’t know anything about your job, so it’s pure assumptions, but aren’t you using your creative input to solve problems in your job as well ? Basically, your hobby projects are probably more freeing and unbounded, but are they more _creative_ than the work you’re be doing in your paid time ?
    - kstenerud 4y ago
      That's an interesting question... I'm not sure how one would quantify which is more creative, and I certainly wouldn't stay long at a job that has no creative outlet. It's also confounded by the fact that I got my current job because they're using one of my open source projects as part of their core business.
- signaru 4y ago
  I'm not sure whether it counts as boredom, but Python was said to have been created by GVR to keep himself occupied during a Christmas holiday.
powersnail 4y ago
Perhaps this is due to my insufficient understanding of English, but "an abundance of uninterrupted time spent in relative solitude" doesn't sound like boredom to me, especially if the time is spent on active thinking. If you are deeply engaged in musing, despite the solitary situation, you are not really bored, are you? At least I wouldn't call it being bored. You've got something to do, and you're well occupied by it. It's just thinking time to me. Such a situation I'd never characterize as boring (unless it lasts a ridiculous time, which reminds me of _Chess Story_). What I think of as "boredom" is more like being in a sporadic lecture, doing assignments that are lengthy and thoughtless, being locked in a traffic jam, etc. Something that takes time, repulses attention, but has sufficient consequence that compels your concentration. And I don't think those are helpful in the profoundness of anything. So, if the premise is "social media may prevent users from reaping creative rewards of time to profoundly think", I'd agree. But "profound boredom"? I just couldn't get behind this terminology.
- pcurve 4y ago
  I agree about the terminology not being the best so the article tries to differentiate it from normal boredom by calling it "profound boredom"
  - powersnail 4y ago
    I find the differentiation to be rather circular in its logic. The authors chose to call it "profound boredom", grouped it with "normal boredom" (which is, in fact, just "boredom"), called the union of them "boredom", and thus boredom can be great for your creativity. All this mental gymnastic to produce the attention grabbing headline that something bad can be good for you, when that something bad is actually something good, but rehashed into the category of something bad. Of course, that thing which is good for you has not changed; we always knew that if you spend time thinking deeply, you might gain some insights or ideas. It's just a shuffling of terminologies, which conveniently helps market their findings. By the same thought process, a human being can have 8 limbs, because here are the "normal humans", and there we have Billy the Octopus, who we re-categorize as a "Octopusian human". So, it's safe to say that some human can have 8 limbs. It's like the gerrymandering of definitions.
Towaway69 4y ago
It is ironic that I came to HN in my boredom and read this thread. Discovered that there are two kinds of boredom! Thank you boredom and HN for making my boredom strangely productive.
kranke155 4y ago
I’m a writer and I always do my best work when I leave the phone at home. In fact when I can, I leave it at home for several days in a row.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Your computer cant access social media? I don't mean to be glib, but I often see people discuss this as though it's a smartphone only thing. It's just as possible to doom scroll on the big screen. Maybe I'm jealous that some people can restrict time wasting to just the phone.
  - kranke155 4y ago
    I’m without my laptop as well. I often just go to cafes.
  - kranke155 4y ago
    I time waste with any computer, so I leave them all at home and make an effort to be out all day without any computer on me. I believe it was Jonathan Frazen who said "nothing of any worth was ever written in a room with an internet connection" and I agree. You lose the subtleties of human behaviour when you can just unplug from reality.
AlbertCory 4y ago
Funny to read this today. Last night I got sick of TV, sick of all the interwebs' distractions, and just sat there with eyes closed, letting my mind wander. Finally I remembered I wanted to read Fathers and Sons (Turgenev). Here's a great question: why am I here and not reading that? BRB.
- nehal3m 4y ago
  How was it?
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    Halfway through, but it's excellent. Like Anna Karenina, it's not difficult reading at all.
Towaway69 4y ago
What exactly is the difference between idling, daydreaming, meditating, musing or sitting on sofa with eyes shut and profound boredom? Aren't all these activities doing the same thing, giving the brain pause to calm down, to refocus. Perhaps our brains require idle times as our bodies need pause after exercise.
rrgok 4y ago
I could not even being to read the article. The title was enough. Now we are trying to be productive even in boredom. Let us suck the life out of everything. While we are at, just invent something that let us work when we are asleep. I know I'm being hard, but I can't help feeling nauseated by this mindset of "reaping" something out of everything and everywhere.
- djaychela 4y ago
  I think you may have missed the point of the article if that's your take on it. Its not about deliberately mining boredom, it's that being constantly "entertained" by social media means you will not enter the mind state where creativity can reach significant peaks.
- disqard 4y ago
  How dare you go against the grain of maximizing productivity? Are you a slacker, a freeloader, a (clutches "Fountainhead" close) second-hander? On a non-sarcastic note, I recommend Derek Thompson's "Workism" -- it might resonate with you: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-w...
thenerdhead 4y ago
Wrote a book covering this topic this year. You could live an entire life not being bored. There’s definitely different types of boredom and we are constantly distracted from the good kinds.
trhr 4y ago
Jokes on you, social media gives me more profound boredom than any amount of sitting around and thinking does.
barbariangrunge 4y ago
Sample size of 15 without mentioning any clear measures. Not very impressive
Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
Obligatory Pet Shop Boys quote: "We were never bored because we were never being boring".
tapanjk 4y ago
> Profound boredom stems from an abundance of uninterrupted time spent in relative solitude, which can lead to indifference, apathy, and people questioning their sense of self and their existence - but which Heidegger said could also pave the way to more creative thinking and activity. I wonder if there is a record of what could help one break out of 'indeifference, apathy, ...' phase and into the 'creative thinking and activity' phase. It is just a matter of time? Is it possible only for some and not for others? Have you, dear reader, succesfully transitioned to the latter phase and as a result, change the course of your life towards a desirable goal?
RHSman2 4y ago
I live in a different country, continent because of the boredom of buses in late 90’s. I would look around and just see how little was happening in my town. I hated it, it spurned me on to escape. If the monotony of bus journeys was eased by social media I am sure I may still be there.
simonmesmith 4y ago
This looked interesting and then I read the following in the press release: “Dr Hill said the research sampled 15 participants of varying age, occupational and education backgrounds in England and the Republic of Ireland, who had been put on furlough or asked to work from home.” So the hypothesis is based on 15 people, in one region of the world, in a very specific circumstance. The authors admit the research is limited, but if you don’t read deeply into the press release you might come away thinking this finding—if you can call it that—is much more solid than the actual survey methodology would support.
- Jorengarenar 4y ago
  Indeed, those findings are good prompt for the researchers to continue their research, but not something you publish as the results!
  - Sakos 4y ago
    Why not? Just because it's published doesn't mean it implies that it's found an absolute truth that can't ever be changed or further analyzed.
    - johnfn 4y ago
      You don’t publish because basically anything can be proven at n=15. I could probably go perform another study right now at n=15 and if I chose my variables right I could determine that social media has no effect whatsoever. And as much as you or I know not to read too much into this one study, there are plenty more people who won’t read too closely or carefully.
      - Sakos 4y ago
        I'll put it bluntly. I don't care about people who read a single study and take it as gospel. Science would be nothing without all the studies that are published about every single topic. Even the most important findings are built on studies done before them. > basically anything can be proven at n=15 Nothing was proven. The paper is literally a philosophical discussion about Heidegger leaning on a survey. If you think that proves anything, I have a bridge to sell you. It's a data point, nothing more and nothing less. It's an interesting perspective worth thinking about and investigating further.

425 points by nabla9 4y ago

tcmb 4y ago

I did not read the study, but the finding seems trivial and limited at the same time: Anything you do to alleviate or prevent boredom that is not creative can be said to 'prevent reaping creative rewards' of boredom. Not just social media (or any media consumption, really) but also sports or calling a friend or helping in a soup kitchen. If you didn't do it, you'd feel boredom, and might pick up something creative instead.

nullish_signal 4y ago
Sports use more muscles and cardio than social media scrolling. Phonecalls at least rely on speech instead of an algorithm deciding what to show you. Helping in a Soup Kitchen is obviously more productive than doom-scrolling. All of those examples are better uses of time than passively consuming "Social Media"
- themitigating 4y ago
  "Phonecalls at least rely on speech instead of an algorithm deciding what to show you" People participate in social media. Think of all the creative content that exists. In your example you compared a two way phone call with only one part of social media. "Helping in a Soup Kitchen is obviously more productive than doom-scrolling." Though subjective, I agree with you. However without social media how many 14 year olds were helping at soup kitchens instead of watching TV, playing video games, or outside playing. You implied that social media was impacting selfless benevolent acts. This could even get complicated where I show that young people use social media in a positive way to call out social issues or make people aware of volunteer events. "All of those examples are better uses of time than passively consuming "Social Media" Again, social media doesn't have to be passive, your comment that I'm replying to and this reply show that. I believe you are letting your cynicism impact your view of social media
armatav 4y ago
“I did not read the study”
- themitigating 4y ago
  I think he meant he read the conclusion or just the data. Still, when I see this line it's like a protection from from being wrong. "I'm not an expert but...." basically prevents judgement since they qualified their statement
- jimmySixDOF 4y ago
  Leaning into the metaness of having this conversation on social media in social media and on the subject of it's shallowness, then detaching the headline takeaways from the study's detail as done here by GP is a useful case in point. Can a reasonable argument be made even against straw men ? Do the details matter when the sound byte talking head line is the lone subject of interest ?
  - jimmySixDOF 4y ago
    Note to downvoters : no opinion is offered here, for or against. Like it or not the memeification of a study like this compressed in to a couple of headlines which float off into the field of engagement on their own - that phenomenanon is a thing and would not happen if the bullet points didn't tap into a confirmation bias of pre existing wider interest in the topic being advanced in some small way through surfacing the conversation and I question if this holds true whatever the originating details might be. I certainly don't have a clear answer.
rektide 4y ago
Social media is distinct in that it's not one thing, one experience. It's many different experiences, that users are cut between, exposed to. Where-as calling a friend every hour doesnt make sense & would get repetitive, one can just drop into the feed of experiences whenever they want. Your point remains, certainly. But I do think there's a kind of unbridled access to novelty & other-peoples-creativeness that is indeed remarkably blunting when compared to most personal lives & options we'd have.
mrbombastic 4y ago
This is no doubt true but smart phones basically give you the option to never be bored, and get instant gratification whenever you feel like it. I don’t think it is limited to social media but I imagine there are pretty profound consequences to that.
- Jensson 4y ago
  It is a self regulating problem, bored people create entertainment until there are no other bored people left. Modern tech makes that process more efficient so you have less bored people, I don't see why that is a problem.
  - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
    It's a problem if the things that people used to do while bored were useful and now that social media is handling the boredom problem those things are not happening anymore.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      Why is that a problem? What about video games or TV? What useful things are you talking about and is their evidence of their decline?
      - __MatrixMan__ 4y ago
        Well here I am on HN, so I'm in a bit of a relapse, but personally I've noticed that not being on social media correlates with: - talking with strangers at the grocery store - working on my novel - building things in my garage - antagonizing institutions that I think have crossed a line And those things are meaningful to me in ways that being on social media is not. As for whether such activities trickle up into some kind of high level aggregate good, I don't know, but it's not hard to guess at how they might.
      - tayo42 4y ago
        TV being a problem was talked to death for years. Now the attention is on streaming binges on Netflix. Not everyone likes or plays video games it doesn't have the same mass appeal
Barrin92 4y ago
however there's some pretty stark differences. Sport is inherently physically healthy, and working in a soup kitchen or doing some other charitable work has positive social effects. Much social media usage, despite the name, isn't very social at all. After a game of soccer with your friends you probably feel better both physically and mentally than after scrolling through twitter. The latter is more like reality tv combined with the worst news channel available.

meindnoch 4y ago

Do people still use social media that much?

mdorazio 4y ago
You're asking this question on a social media site...
- chownie 4y ago
  I kind of object to that use of the term, when social media was coined it clearly did not apply to pseudonymous forum sites.
  - delecti 4y ago
    From what I can tell from a brief googling, the term "social media" was coined (or at least an early documented use was) by an AOL executive in 1997. I think that refutes your assertion. AOL usernames tended to be pretty pseudonymous.
- baeaz 4y ago
  I disagree that this is a social media, I don't even look at the names of those who leave comments or those I reply to. It's like I'm reading and talking to the hivemind.
  - drstewart 4y ago
    I don't look at the names of commenters on Twitter or Instagram, so those aren't social media either?
  - mr_mitm 4y ago
    HN still serves as a source of distraction for time periods of arbitrary length. TikTok may also not be a social network, but it's distracting and addicting. The content on HN is just a bit more geared towards the intellectual (and The Algorithm is less powerful).
  - 4y ago

quaintdev 4y ago

The whole problem with social media is the feed. Remove that feed and replace it with something that is not the mechanism to keep users captive and most of the issues with social media are solved. One of the ways to achieve that is to make people at the center of app. The user chooses avatar from multiple avatars on main screen and view their updates. Once they have viewed someone's update they can go back do it for other, it becomes boring very fast and discourages app usage. No social media company is going to do this but something of this sort needs to happen.

ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
Correct. Infinite scroll and adaptive algorithms are the curse of social media.
suketk 4y ago
Exactly! It's the digital equivalent of placing the milk at the back of the grocery store. It's meant to distract you from why you're there in the first place. If anyone is interested, I wrote about why feeds are bad and how you can reduce your dependence on them. https://suketk.com/feeds-considered-harmful https://suketk.com/feeds-considered-harmful
Existenceblinks 4y ago
I think it would have similar effect of reddit or youtube. 99% of the time I use reddit or youtube, it's started with search to jump straight to a topic. And that is better because the demand side is an active, the knowledge side is the sort of passive. So mediocre knowledge wouldn't have the money backed ads power to outperform the better knowledge or solution.
trhr 4y ago
I don't come on the orange site to feel attacked. I come here to mindlessly scroll the news.
malikNF 4y ago
With twitter setting your feed to show the latest instead of the top shows you the latest stuff from just the people you follow. [1] I have noticed doing this has massively reduced the amount of time I spend there. [1] https://mashable.com/article/set-twitter-timeline-most-recent-chronological https://mashable.com/article/set-twitter-timeline-most-recen...

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago

I am reading Antifragile by Nassim Taleb, and one of his points is that much of invention happens either out of necessity or outside of structure vs traditional R&D / Academia. I was wondering how much social media filling in all spare time keeps people from tinkering and inventing and making progress. Though, I suspect the tinkers are still spending a lot of time tinkering - and only the people who have nothing better to do are spending most of their time on social media.

adg001 4y ago
There is a line of research according to which social media create addiction [0]. When we are addicted to social media, we have less and less time for tinkering and pushing the envelope, because a sizeable part of our time is claimed by such media. [0] Griffiths, M. D. (2012). Facebook addiction: Concerns, criticism, and recommendations: A response to Andreassen and colleagues. Psychological Reports, 110, 518–520. https://doi.org/10.2466/01.07.18.PR0.110.2.518-520 https://doi.org/10.2466/01.07.18.PR0.110.2.518-520

RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago

> Dr Hill said the research sampled 15 participants of varying age, occupational and education backgrounds in England and the Republic of Ireland, These seems like very few people to be drawing such broad-ranging conclusions from.

Tagbert 4y ago
if the effect is strong you can see evidence in even small sample sizes.

swayvil 4y ago

A powerful, constant, extremely low-effort distraction. It's blinding to all of your senses and thoughts because as long as your attention is consumed by this fascinating object everything else is invisible. Walls of blindness surround you. A kind of invisible prison.

dreen 4y ago

Quit Twitter about 6 years ago because of related issues. Checked out Mastodon, but apart from the distributed aspect it just seems like more of the same, as in an evolution upon the experience of watching TV, in the internet era. I've been quite happy without it since.

hecanjog 4y ago
We followed a similar path and my experience was mostly the same. I wanted the fediverse to be a positive social thing in my life, I gave it a few years but in practice it felt sadly similar. Reading Amusing Ourselves to Death over the holiday helped me understand my relationship to infotainment a little better. (And I'm conflicted about this site too honestly...)
- verzeichnis 4y ago
  This book should be required reading in school. I read it when I was around 18 and it vaccinated me profoundly for all things entertainment industry, be it video games, TV or social media. I partake, but there always comes a point where I get that Clockwork Orange gag reaction at some point and am driven away. And yes, this site is of quality content, but it is still the same opiate.
amelius 4y ago
Yet here you are on HN ;)
- agileAlligator 4y ago
  I'm fine with HN personally because there is no infinite scrolling, plus a significant number of the posts/comments here teach me something new every day.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Sarcastic remark but I agree with you. Everytime there's some article about Netflix, Facebook, or the like there's a bunch of people telling everyone they quit and how their life is better, etc. Many times the article isn't even about quitting social media, just some controversy. I wonder if some percentage of those people are right-wing and wait for a chance to jump in so they can harm companies they disagree with.

Isamu 4y ago

Actually being creative requires work, a lot of it, and the people who are very creative think the work is fun or have accepted it. Best to get into a regular groove of doing your creative work on a predictable schedule. The opposite of being bored is cultivating your interests, treating them like a garden that takes work but grows over time into a variety of wonderful things.

phkahler 4y ago
Sounds like something to overcome boredom. Think how much free time they'd have without all that creative work.
frereubu 4y ago
I agree that many people think "being creative" is just swanning around being inspired, but all the high-level creative people I know are very hard-working. There's a great book called The Creative Habit by the choreographer Twyla Tharp which is an absolutely fantastic insight into what it takes to operate at a high level in the arts.

kevingadd 4y ago

It's certainly a way to waste time, but social media is also where I've found a lot of creative partners to work on side projects with, and it's where I've found a lot of inspiration too when looking at people's art, microfiction, etc. So I feel like for me it's probably at least net neutral when I use it properly instead of just doomscrolling.

highspeedbus 4y ago

There's a brazillian song called Tédio (Boredom) that was popular in the 80's. It talks about not withstanding boredom inside home, while life goes on out there. It's curious how the depicted feeling is so unrelatable today. I think boredom is a real force that pushes ourselves to the edge, to hopefully make a change in life, like going out to see real people. Social media creates this cozy, safe place to keep your mind occupied, letting life pass without realizing it.

coffeebeqn 4y ago
It’s very difficult when you have to make a conscious decision to.. be bored. I do think most people still get stimuli like loneliness that hopefully drives them out sometimes.
411111111111111 4y ago
But why do people blame social media for that? Every entertainment is equally at fault, wherever it's fictions, movies, tv series, comics/webtoons, games etc
- hnuser123456 4y ago
  Because it's too easy now. You need a creative endeavor to seem like an easy way to replace boredom with novelty. For a lot of folks especially younger ones, there is already infinite novelty just waiting to be scrolled all the time in their pocket. No need to do anything except wave your thumb around.
- analog31 4y ago
  I don't think novelists have yet figured out how to completely occupy your cognitive apparatus or put you under pressure to stay engaged. When I'm sitting in my comfy chair reading a novel, I can close my eyes without worrying that I might miss something while I'm asleep.
  - 12345hn6789 4y ago
    How is this different than closing your phone, screen shotting a FB post, pausing your video? Really. Even live streams, for the most part, are able to be paused and watched at a later date albiet without chat interaction. I fail to see the difference.

nowherebeen 4y ago

I stopped using Reddit when I realized I was substituting my boredom with junk content. Even blocked it on my /etc/host for awhile.

bakugo 4y ago

> may I thought this was a well known observable fact. There are certain creative thought processes that only occur to me when I really have absolutely nothing else to think about, but that basically never happens anymore thanks to the internet. The only reason I'm even aware that I'm missing out on this is because it still happens when I take long showers, so basically the only time I don't have a phone or computer with me.

hkon 4y ago

I mean, through some hilarious coincidents a couple of years ago I found myself without internet at home for close to a month. I remember just sitting in my living room thinking, "man watching TV is boring, I would rather do <whatever productive thing>". The picture in the article could have been me. It had a magical just-do-it effect because I really had no better alternatives around.

faeriechangling 4y ago

Or maybe posting all our creative output on large searchable databases actually amplifies creativity due to tools like AI whereas aimless boredom tends to result in local efforts such as scribbling?

dahart 4y ago

> “Profound boredom may sound like an overwhelmingly negative concept but, in fact, it can be intensely positive if people are given the chance for undistracted thinking and development.” Is there historical evidence, from before social media or computers existed, that boredom made people productive or creative? I am worried about my kids never ever being bored, and the points in the article are tempting to believe, but when I think about history, I’m sure people were more lots more bored but not sure they were creatively doing any better than what we see today.

kstenerud 4y ago
Boredom is what led to pretty much every project I've ever done. I usually have a list in my head of things that could be made better, but they never come to anything until I have a lengthy period of nothing to do. Latest example: I had to take all my vacation time this year or else I'd lose it. I got so bored that I built this over the past weeks: https://github.com/kstenerud/kbnf https://github.com/kstenerud/kbnf
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  I don’t know anything about your job, so it’s pure assumptions, but aren’t you using your creative input to solve problems in your job as well ? Basically, your hobby projects are probably more freeing and unbounded, but are they more _creative_ than the work you’re be doing in your paid time ?
  - kstenerud 4y ago
    That's an interesting question... I'm not sure how one would quantify which is more creative, and I certainly wouldn't stay long at a job that has no creative outlet. It's also confounded by the fact that I got my current job because they're using one of my open source projects as part of their core business.
signaru 4y ago
I'm not sure whether it counts as boredom, but Python was said to have been created by GVR to keep himself occupied during a Christmas holiday.

powersnail 4y ago

Perhaps this is due to my insufficient understanding of English, but "an abundance of uninterrupted time spent in relative solitude" doesn't sound like boredom to me, especially if the time is spent on active thinking. If you are deeply engaged in musing, despite the solitary situation, you are not really bored, are you? At least I wouldn't call it being bored. You've got something to do, and you're well occupied by it. It's just thinking time to me. Such a situation I'd never characterize as boring (unless it lasts a ridiculous time, which reminds me of _Chess Story_). What I think of as "boredom" is more like being in a sporadic lecture, doing assignments that are lengthy and thoughtless, being locked in a traffic jam, etc. Something that takes time, repulses attention, but has sufficient consequence that compels your concentration. And I don't think those are helpful in the profoundness of anything. So, if the premise is "social media may prevent users from reaping creative rewards of time to profoundly think", I'd agree. But "profound boredom"? I just couldn't get behind this terminology.

pcurve 4y ago
I agree about the terminology not being the best so the article tries to differentiate it from normal boredom by calling it "profound boredom"
- powersnail 4y ago
  I find the differentiation to be rather circular in its logic. The authors chose to call it "profound boredom", grouped it with "normal boredom" (which is, in fact, just "boredom"), called the union of them "boredom", and thus boredom can be great for your creativity. All this mental gymnastic to produce the attention grabbing headline that something bad can be good for you, when that something bad is actually something good, but rehashed into the category of something bad. Of course, that thing which is good for you has not changed; we always knew that if you spend time thinking deeply, you might gain some insights or ideas. It's just a shuffling of terminologies, which conveniently helps market their findings. By the same thought process, a human being can have 8 limbs, because here are the "normal humans", and there we have Billy the Octopus, who we re-categorize as a "Octopusian human". So, it's safe to say that some human can have 8 limbs. It's like the gerrymandering of definitions.

Towaway69 4y ago

It is ironic that I came to HN in my boredom and read this thread. Discovered that there are two kinds of boredom! Thank you boredom and HN for making my boredom strangely productive.

kranke155 4y ago

I’m a writer and I always do my best work when I leave the phone at home. In fact when I can, I leave it at home for several days in a row.

LAC-Tech 4y ago
Your computer cant access social media? I don't mean to be glib, but I often see people discuss this as though it's a smartphone only thing. It's just as possible to doom scroll on the big screen. Maybe I'm jealous that some people can restrict time wasting to just the phone.
- kranke155 4y ago
  I’m without my laptop as well. I often just go to cafes.
- kranke155 4y ago
  I time waste with any computer, so I leave them all at home and make an effort to be out all day without any computer on me. I believe it was Jonathan Frazen who said "nothing of any worth was ever written in a room with an internet connection" and I agree. You lose the subtleties of human behaviour when you can just unplug from reality.

AlbertCory 4y ago

Funny to read this today. Last night I got sick of TV, sick of all the interwebs' distractions, and just sat there with eyes closed, letting my mind wander. Finally I remembered I wanted to read Fathers and Sons (Turgenev). Here's a great question: why am I here and not reading that? BRB.

nehal3m 4y ago
How was it?
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  Halfway through, but it's excellent. Like Anna Karenina, it's not difficult reading at all.

Towaway69 4y ago

What exactly is the difference between idling, daydreaming, meditating, musing or sitting on sofa with eyes shut and profound boredom? Aren't all these activities doing the same thing, giving the brain pause to calm down, to refocus. Perhaps our brains require idle times as our bodies need pause after exercise.

rrgok 4y ago

I could not even being to read the article. The title was enough. Now we are trying to be productive even in boredom. Let us suck the life out of everything. While we are at, just invent something that let us work when we are asleep. I know I'm being hard, but I can't help feeling nauseated by this mindset of "reaping" something out of everything and everywhere.

djaychela 4y ago
I think you may have missed the point of the article if that's your take on it. Its not about deliberately mining boredom, it's that being constantly "entertained" by social media means you will not enter the mind state where creativity can reach significant peaks.
disqard 4y ago
How dare you go against the grain of maximizing productivity? Are you a slacker, a freeloader, a (clutches "Fountainhead" close) second-hander? On a non-sarcastic note, I recommend Derek Thompson's "Workism" -- it might resonate with you: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-workism-making-americans-miserable/583441/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/religion-w...

thenerdhead 4y ago

Wrote a book covering this topic this year. You could live an entire life not being bored. There’s definitely different types of boredom and we are constantly distracted from the good kinds.

trhr 4y ago

Jokes on you, social media gives me more profound boredom than any amount of sitting around and thinking does.

barbariangrunge 4y ago

Sample size of 15 without mentioning any clear measures. Not very impressive

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago

Obligatory Pet Shop Boys quote: "We were never bored because we were never being boring".

tapanjk 4y ago

> Profound boredom stems from an abundance of uninterrupted time spent in relative solitude, which can lead to indifference, apathy, and people questioning their sense of self and their existence - but which Heidegger said could also pave the way to more creative thinking and activity. I wonder if there is a record of what could help one break out of 'indeifference, apathy, ...' phase and into the 'creative thinking and activity' phase. It is just a matter of time? Is it possible only for some and not for others? Have you, dear reader, succesfully transitioned to the latter phase and as a result, change the course of your life towards a desirable goal?

RHSman2 4y ago

I live in a different country, continent because of the boredom of buses in late 90’s. I would look around and just see how little was happening in my town. I hated it, it spurned me on to escape. If the monotony of bus journeys was eased by social media I am sure I may still be there.

simonmesmith 4y ago

This looked interesting and then I read the following in the press release: “Dr Hill said the research sampled 15 participants of varying age, occupational and education backgrounds in England and the Republic of Ireland, who had been put on furlough or asked to work from home.” So the hypothesis is based on 15 people, in one region of the world, in a very specific circumstance. The authors admit the research is limited, but if you don’t read deeply into the press release you might come away thinking this finding—if you can call it that—is much more solid than the actual survey methodology would support.

Jorengarenar 4y ago
Indeed, those findings are good prompt for the researchers to continue their research, but not something you publish as the results!
- Sakos 4y ago
  Why not? Just because it's published doesn't mean it implies that it's found an absolute truth that can't ever be changed or further analyzed.
  - johnfn 4y ago
    You don’t publish because basically anything can be proven at n=15. I could probably go perform another study right now at n=15 and if I chose my variables right I could determine that social media has no effect whatsoever. And as much as you or I know not to read too much into this one study, there are plenty more people who won’t read too closely or carefully.
    - Sakos 4y ago
      I'll put it bluntly. I don't care about people who read a single study and take it as gospel. Science would be nothing without all the studies that are published about every single topic. Even the most important findings are built on studies done before them. > basically anything can be proven at n=15 Nothing was proven. The paper is literally a philosophical discussion about Heidegger leaning on a survey. If you think that proves anything, I have a bridge to sell you. It's a data point, nothing more and nothing less. It's an interesting perspective worth thinking about and investigating further.