5 ms·

I'm pretty ignorant beyond they're software devs who write stuff I like. I understand if you don't want to bring up their politics here and potentially ruin thi

I'm pretty ignorant beyond they're software devs who write stuff I like. I understand if you don't want to bring up their politics here and potentially ruin this thread too, but if it can be done tastefully I'd be curious about their politics.

jmclnx 4y ago
I would just do a search in google :) It was also mentioned by L. Poettering on his twitter account a few years ago. I would like to see this thread stay true to Suckless itself (for a change).
- dpkirchner 4y ago
  This all looks bad enough that I'm not sure it's reasonable to separate their "politics" from the people.
- Avshalom 4y ago
  Probably shouldn't have brought it up unprompted in the first comment on the thread then.
- howinteresting 4y ago
  I think if a project has Nazis involved in it, that should probably be front and center in any discussion about it.
  - torstenvl 4y ago
    The evidence seems to be: - One dude once blamed post-WWI treatment of Germany for the rise in nationalism that led to Hitler - They once hiked using torches instead of flashlights. Only they're German so this was near Nuremberg. - They named a mail server "Wolf's Lair." Only they're German so this was in German. Is there a public record anywhere of any of them defending the Holocaust or making anti-Semitic statements?
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      > They named a mail server "Wolf's Lair." Only they're German so this was in German. A single developer associated with suckles has a private machine with the "wolfsschanze" hostname. This is a big difference with "suckless has a mail server named wolfsschanze".
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - bbbbb5 4y ago
        > A single developer associated Laslo is the first chair of the board, not just "a single developer".
    - kuschku 4y ago
      Wolfsschanze is a word that never occurs accidentally in German language today. If you use it, it's always in a historic or Nazi context.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - howinteresting 4y ago
      Even the appearance of association with Nazis should set off giant warning flags. "Haha I used a German word that's generally associated with Nazis but isn't technically that, this is a joke I promise" almost always means that the person is a Nazi.
wpietri 4y ago
I searched a bit and this is what I got: https://www.reddit.com/r/systemd/comments/qg1g88/poettering_on_suckless/ https://www.reddit.com/r/systemd/comments/qg1g88/poettering_...
- userbinator 4y ago
  The Poettering/systemd crowd are basically mutual enemies of suckless at this point.
- ericbarrett 4y ago
  Here's the twitter thread that link ultimately leads to: https://twitter.com/pid_eins/status/1113738764797534208 https://twitter.com/pid_eins/status/1113738764797534208
kuschku 4y ago
Well, they're doing torchhikes through the area near Nuremberg on their meetups, they send emails through relays with hostnames like "Wolfsschanze" and devs with official suckless flair post on [website that's basically a clone of HN] complaining about "cultural marxism". Obviously, you still have to interpret that yourself, but these are the facts about the people behind suckless.
- plugin-baby 4y ago
  > [website that's basically a clone of HN] Which site is that?
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    https://lobste.rs/ https://lobste.rs/
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  > they're doing torchhikes through the area near Nuremberg on their meetups And? > they send emails through relays with hostnames like "Wolfsschanze" A single developer has a private machine named this. There is no plural "they" here. > devs with official suckless flair post on [website that's basically a clone of HN] complaining about "cultural marxism". I believe the flair is kind of "sticky" on Lobsters, so that's probably more of an accident than anything else. Regardless, it's a single developer voicing their personal opinion (the same as the one with the "Wolfsschanze" hostname) and there is no plural "they" here either.
  - bitwize 4y ago
    "Cultural marxism" is a Nazi dogwhistle tho
    - Beltalowda 4y ago
      The number "88" can be. Norse mythology can be. A shaven head can be. Military boots can be. Lots of things can be, but you need look at the context. The entire point of a "dogwhistle" is that it looks innocent and that it can be easily confused as such, and this automatically means there are also plenty of innocent uses of such things. A "X is a dog-whistle for Y" assertion is meaningless. Plus, "Vaguely right-wing" or even "extreme right-wing" is not identical to "Nazi".

jmclnx 4y ago

I would just do a search in google :) It was also mentioned by L. Poettering on his twitter account a few years ago. I would like to see this thread stay true to Suckless itself (for a change).

dpkirchner 4y ago
This all looks bad enough that I'm not sure it's reasonable to separate their "politics" from the people.
Avshalom 4y ago
Probably shouldn't have brought it up unprompted in the first comment on the thread then.
howinteresting 4y ago
I think if a project has Nazis involved in it, that should probably be front and center in any discussion about it.
- torstenvl 4y ago
  The evidence seems to be: - One dude once blamed post-WWI treatment of Germany for the rise in nationalism that led to Hitler - They once hiked using torches instead of flashlights. Only they're German so this was near Nuremberg. - They named a mail server "Wolf's Lair." Only they're German so this was in German. Is there a public record anywhere of any of them defending the Holocaust or making anti-Semitic statements?
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    > They named a mail server "Wolf's Lair." Only they're German so this was in German. A single developer associated with suckles has a private machine with the "wolfsschanze" hostname. This is a big difference with "suckless has a mail server named wolfsschanze".
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - bbbbb5 4y ago
      > A single developer associated Laslo is the first chair of the board, not just "a single developer".
  - kuschku 4y ago
    Wolfsschanze is a word that never occurs accidentally in German language today. If you use it, it's always in a historic or Nazi context.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    Even the appearance of association with Nazis should set off giant warning flags. "Haha I used a German word that's generally associated with Nazis but isn't technically that, this is a joke I promise" almost always means that the person is a Nazi.

wpietri 4y ago

I searched a bit and this is what I got: https://www.reddit.com/r/systemd/comments/qg1g88/poettering_on_suckless/ https://www.reddit.com/r/systemd/comments/qg1g88/poettering_...

userbinator 4y ago
The Poettering/systemd crowd are basically mutual enemies of suckless at this point.
ericbarrett 4y ago
Here's the twitter thread that link ultimately leads to: https://twitter.com/pid_eins/status/1113738764797534208 https://twitter.com/pid_eins/status/1113738764797534208

kuschku 4y ago

Well, they're doing torchhikes through the area near Nuremberg on their meetups, they send emails through relays with hostnames like "Wolfsschanze" and devs with official suckless flair post on [website that's basically a clone of HN] complaining about "cultural marxism". Obviously, you still have to interpret that yourself, but these are the facts about the people behind suckless.

plugin-baby 4y ago
> [website that's basically a clone of HN] Which site is that?
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  https://lobste.rs/ https://lobste.rs/
Beltalowda 4y ago
> they're doing torchhikes through the area near Nuremberg on their meetups And? > they send emails through relays with hostnames like "Wolfsschanze" A single developer has a private machine named this. There is no plural "they" here. > devs with official suckless flair post on [website that's basically a clone of HN] complaining about "cultural marxism". I believe the flair is kind of "sticky" on Lobsters, so that's probably more of an accident than anything else. Regardless, it's a single developer voicing their personal opinion (the same as the one with the "Wolfsschanze" hostname) and there is no plural "they" here either.
- bitwize 4y ago
  "Cultural marxism" is a Nazi dogwhistle tho
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    The number "88" can be. Norse mythology can be. A shaven head can be. Military boots can be. Lots of things can be, but you need look at the context. The entire point of a "dogwhistle" is that it looks innocent and that it can be easily confused as such, and this automatically means there are also plenty of innocent uses of such things. A "X is a dog-whistle for Y" assertion is meaningless. Plus, "Vaguely right-wing" or even "extreme right-wing" is not identical to "Nazi".