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> But the software has stagnated [..] I've only owned ICE vehicles (lifetime total: 3, 2 of which are parked outside right now), and have only ever rented ICE

> But the software has stagnated [..] I've only owned ICE vehicles (lifetime total: 3, 2 of which are parked outside right now), and have only ever rented ICE vehicles (lifetime total: several hundred, the latest of which is in the long-stay at London Heathrow right now...) I'm unable to get my head around talk of a vehicle's software "stagnating"? AFAIK none of the vehicles I've ever driven had OTA updates, and from the driver's PoV they weren't the worse for it. If you're hoping to convince current ICE drivers to upgrade to EV, then talking about shipping rapid software updates probably isn't going to work...

wpietri 4y ago
I think the implication is that the current software is just not very good. It's obviously fine for techie early adopters, who like the new shiny and are willing to put up with a lot. But it sounds like from the perspective of a normal person's sustained daily use, the gee-whiz feelings wear off and leave you with annoying issues. But it could also partly be a case of differing expectations. The web has trained us all that software generally gets better over time. I never expect a car's too-low doorframes to make room for my head. But on an ICE car when I'm confronted with, say, the same clunky dashboard nav system, it seems more frustrating that, year after year, it's still just as bad. In fact, I ended up paying good money to replace the car stereo with something that was compatible with Android Auto mainly so I could have an ever-improving Google Maps in the same spot on my dashboard.
- logifail 4y ago
  > on an ICE car when I'm confronted with, say, the same clunky dashboard nav system, it seems more frustrating that, year after year, it's still just as bad I drove my first ICE vehicle for almost 10 years. The driver experience was exactly the same in year 9 as it was in year 1. The replacement is currently in year 7. It's the same as it was in its year 1. Q: Why would that be frustrating?
  - notahacker 4y ago
    It's just not as much fun when you're not renting your UX so next year could bring you better collision avoidance or require you to pay for an upgrade to continue to be able to recline your seats
    - logifail 4y ago
      > better collision avoidance Mark I eyeballs still in use here, touch wood they're apparently still working ok. Was driving round greater Innsbruck in the snow 10 days ago, someone was coming downhill on a snowy sidestreet too fast and out of the corner of my eye I clocked they weren't going to be able to stop, yanked my wheel left, I slid(!) out of my lane into the oncoming lane (happily empty) and the unlucky driver slid out over the white line right into the space my vehicle would have been in. Talk about adrenaline rush :(
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Did you have a touch screen? Or a screen that controls any part of the car? The frustration is that those tend to have awful interfaces, with extra frustration that they could be fixed but don't get fixed. If you had normal buttons then there wasn't anything to get annoyed with in this way in the first place, so it didn't need updates.
    - bumby 4y ago
      Given that this is a fairly common sentiment, it’s a bit wild to me that SpaceX uses touch screens to control almost everything in their Dragon capsule.
      - frosted-flakes 4y ago
        It's a different environment. Astronauts are passengers, not drivers, and they rarely need to make sudden actions while multi-tasking the way car drivers do. If they made all-glass cockpits for fighter jets I would agree with you, but they don't.
- logifail 4y ago
  > It's obviously fine for techie early adopters, who like the new shiny and are willing to put up with a lot "Buttons beat touchscreens in cars, and now there’s data to prove it": https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/yes-touchscreens-really-are-worse-than-buttons-in-cars-study-finds/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/yes-touchscreens-really... I did actually chortle when I read that :)
burnished 4y ago
That isn’t ICE vs EV that’s new vs old
tverbeure 4y ago
A few months ago, Tesla rolled out a new feature where it will give a gentle ping if you’re standing in front of a stop light and the light turns green. I love it.
- dreamcompiler 4y ago
  That used to be part of the expensive FSD package, and it was the only part I liked. Glad it's standard now.

wpietri 4y ago

I think the implication is that the current software is just not very good. It's obviously fine for techie early adopters, who like the new shiny and are willing to put up with a lot. But it sounds like from the perspective of a normal person's sustained daily use, the gee-whiz feelings wear off and leave you with annoying issues. But it could also partly be a case of differing expectations. The web has trained us all that software generally gets better over time. I never expect a car's too-low doorframes to make room for my head. But on an ICE car when I'm confronted with, say, the same clunky dashboard nav system, it seems more frustrating that, year after year, it's still just as bad. In fact, I ended up paying good money to replace the car stereo with something that was compatible with Android Auto mainly so I could have an ever-improving Google Maps in the same spot on my dashboard.

logifail 4y ago
> on an ICE car when I'm confronted with, say, the same clunky dashboard nav system, it seems more frustrating that, year after year, it's still just as bad I drove my first ICE vehicle for almost 10 years. The driver experience was exactly the same in year 9 as it was in year 1. The replacement is currently in year 7. It's the same as it was in its year 1. Q: Why would that be frustrating?
- notahacker 4y ago
  It's just not as much fun when you're not renting your UX so next year could bring you better collision avoidance or require you to pay for an upgrade to continue to be able to recline your seats
  - logifail 4y ago
    > better collision avoidance Mark I eyeballs still in use here, touch wood they're apparently still working ok. Was driving round greater Innsbruck in the snow 10 days ago, someone was coming downhill on a snowy sidestreet too fast and out of the corner of my eye I clocked they weren't going to be able to stop, yanked my wheel left, I slid(!) out of my lane into the oncoming lane (happily empty) and the unlucky driver slid out over the white line right into the space my vehicle would have been in. Talk about adrenaline rush :(
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  Did you have a touch screen? Or a screen that controls any part of the car? The frustration is that those tend to have awful interfaces, with extra frustration that they could be fixed but don't get fixed. If you had normal buttons then there wasn't anything to get annoyed with in this way in the first place, so it didn't need updates.
  - bumby 4y ago
    Given that this is a fairly common sentiment, it’s a bit wild to me that SpaceX uses touch screens to control almost everything in their Dragon capsule.
    - frosted-flakes 4y ago
      It's a different environment. Astronauts are passengers, not drivers, and they rarely need to make sudden actions while multi-tasking the way car drivers do. If they made all-glass cockpits for fighter jets I would agree with you, but they don't.
logifail 4y ago
> It's obviously fine for techie early adopters, who like the new shiny and are willing to put up with a lot "Buttons beat touchscreens in cars, and now there’s data to prove it": https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/yes-touchscreens-really-are-worse-than-buttons-in-cars-study-finds/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/08/yes-touchscreens-really... I did actually chortle when I read that :)

burnished 4y ago

That isn’t ICE vs EV that’s new vs old

tverbeure 4y ago

A few months ago, Tesla rolled out a new feature where it will give a gentle ping if you’re standing in front of a stop light and the light turns green. I love it.

dreamcompiler 4y ago
That used to be part of the expensive FSD package, and it was the only part I liked. Glad it's standard now.