4 ms·

I get that this is a thing - isolating one specific app for very specific reasons. I am honestly surprised it's a thing though - shouldn't all unapproved apps b

I get that this is a thing - isolating one specific app for very specific reasons. I am honestly surprised it's a thing though - shouldn't all unapproved apps be disallowed from government devices? Whether Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, Pornhub or whatever - unless you have specific reasons such as e.g. PR position, shouldn't all these be relegated to your private device?

Despegar 4y ago
This is part of the new Cold War and you can expect this kind of Red Scare thinking shaping US policy in the decades to come.
verdenti 4y ago
[dead]
acdha 4y ago
Yes. I’ve been surprised that this is getting so much attention since every federal organization has a “no unapproved software” policy.
Sevii 4y ago
It is bizarre that this required a law when as a private sector employee I can't even use Apple Notes on my work computer.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kube-system 4y ago
  This doesn't require a law. Government agencies already can manage which applications are used on their devices.
IE6 4y ago
Yeah agreed - why does a government issued phone or device need anything more than what is necessary to perform their job? They are compensated enough to have a separate non-work phone.
- CameronNemo 4y ago
  Perhaps it is not known ahead of time what software is needed to complete a job. Who decides what is necessary anyway?
  - junon 4y ago
    I would imagine that a recon-related use case for having TikTok installed will be excluded from this bill.
- eastbound 4y ago
  What about webmarketers in government? And doesn’t the government have covert influence operations?
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    "And doesn’t the government have covert influence operations?" I would assume that shady illegal operations are not really affected by regular laws.
- irrational 4y ago
  My work provides my phone and pays for the data plan. But I am allowed to put anything I want on it.
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
I think about the time tiktok was instrumental of making a joke out of president Trump's rally. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/after-trump-rally-falls-flat-tiktok-teens-take-victory-lap-n1231675 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/after-trump-ra... Facebook emotion experiment on users. It was facebook but it can easily be tiktok. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28051930 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28051930 TikTok admitting to finding and firing employee that spied on reporters https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-by... And I can go on and on. The banning of tik tok as a social network is not unwarranted. It can be used to influence users and gather data. It makes sense to keep it under some control since we can never know how much influence foreign government agencies have over it. It should be and needs to be a thing.
- happymellon 4y ago
  Hang on, your second example of why TikTok should be banned is because Facebook did some bad things? And your third example is because TikTok fired people who abused their position? Whereas Facebook actually *did* psychological experiments on users according to your link, and Facebook has inappropriately used user data. When is Facebook going to be banned?
  - einherjae 4y ago
    That Facebook admitted it doesn’t mean TikTok isn’t doing it without admitting so.
    - happymellon 4y ago
      Of course not. The links just don't back up their position. I don't care about banning TikTok, it's more the unevenness because "China evil". As for admitting it, Facebook has required whistleblowers to expose the terrible things they have done. TikTok has not done anywhere near as much damage to the US as meth and guns individually, but you just don't see the same effort put into solving either of those two problems.
colechristensen 4y ago
You have to expand your imagination to how many millions of us government employees there are and hiw many separate IT departments and government devices there are (and expanded to what private employees actually count as using government devices) It’s crazy complicated and while you could expect, say, FBI employees or those with security clearances to have already strict controls on their devices… there are lots of others out there, hundreds or thousands of separate entities controlling the rules on devices. Making it a law puts the role have one source everywhere, not subject to the judgement of an enormous number of organizations.
jvanderbot 4y ago
Phones are managed by an employer. Government phones are managed by the agency that issues them. What the law does is ensure that all agencies do not have tiktok. Pornhub will also likely appear on banned app lists, but they didn't feel it necessary to make a law. One interesting side effect, is that tiktok might now be bereft of government content, which sounds dry, but includes a lot of NASA's work.
- serial_dev 4y ago
  I know it's not the point, but Pornhub doesn't really have apps that could be banned. All they have is an apk for Android, no iOS at all. It's probably due to porn apps having been banned on the app stores since forever.
  - bozhark 4y ago
    most apps are just UI's for websites anyways
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      Yes, but with the difference, that this website will be now always open and able to track and send data wherever, even when you don't use it.
- ownlife 4y ago
  To your second point -- I assumed that there would be an exception for government content, but my cursory reading of the bill (as a non-lawyer) suggests that... maybe there isn't. The only exceptions are for "law enforcement activities, national security interests and activities, and security researchers." I suspect that many government agencies with a presence on TikTok don't use TT directly but rather are using some PR/communications service or another to connect with it. In that case, I guess this wouldn't inhibit those agencies' ability to put content on the platform. (For the curious, page 2001 - https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/JRQ121922.PDF https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/JRQ12192...)
- 4y ago
andirk 4y ago
Where does one get this hub app? What about browsers? Most social media apps could very easily be used via mobile web browsers. If I had a company, I would not block Ticktok but would judge those who put that shit on a company device.
hackernewds 4y ago
This is in practice how it works, you're debating semantics.
rapjr9 4y ago
I thought the US Constitution prohibits laws that target only one person or corporation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/can-congress-punish-people-why-the-constitution-prohibits-bills-attainder https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/can-congres... If Congress bans TikTok they have to ban all apps like TikTok. Maybe they claim it is for national defense? But what business does not have some relation to national defense? Are they going to ban all engineering that originates in China? Passing a more general privacy law and providing funds for enforcement of it would have been a better way to address this.
- kube-system 4y ago
  I haven't been able to find the actual text of this law, but if it's written like the other 'TikTok ban' legislation I've seen -- they don't technically ban TikTok by name. The ones I have read are actually a ban on "social media services of that are based in or have a controlling parent company located in one of [x] countries" or something to that degree. Although headline writers have boiled that down to "TikTok ban".
  - Brybry 4y ago
    It was part of a (very big) amendment [1] ("NO TIKTOK ON GOVERNMENT DEVICES") to H.R. 2617 [2] I really enjoy the transparency our government has but it could still be a lot better. Finding the final text of bills, especially before a bill is passed and when our voices might still matter, can be more difficult than it should be. [1] https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/volume-168/issue-197/senate-section/article/S7313-2#:~:text=service%20TikTok https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/volume-168/iss... [2] https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2617 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2617
- fluidcruft 4y ago
  How is Congress choosing not to allow a free app on devices they purchase even remotely a punishment? What's the actual harm to TikTok beyond the fact that they cannot monetize government employees?

Despegar 4y ago

This is part of the new Cold War and you can expect this kind of Red Scare thinking shaping US policy in the decades to come.

verdenti 4y ago

[dead]

acdha 4y ago

Yes. I’ve been surprised that this is getting so much attention since every federal organization has a “no unapproved software” policy.

Sevii 4y ago

It is bizarre that this required a law when as a private sector employee I can't even use Apple Notes on my work computer.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kube-system 4y ago
This doesn't require a law. Government agencies already can manage which applications are used on their devices.

IE6 4y ago

Yeah agreed - why does a government issued phone or device need anything more than what is necessary to perform their job? They are compensated enough to have a separate non-work phone.

CameronNemo 4y ago
Perhaps it is not known ahead of time what software is needed to complete a job. Who decides what is necessary anyway?
- junon 4y ago
  I would imagine that a recon-related use case for having TikTok installed will be excluded from this bill.
eastbound 4y ago
What about webmarketers in government? And doesn’t the government have covert influence operations?
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  "And doesn’t the government have covert influence operations?" I would assume that shady illegal operations are not really affected by regular laws.
irrational 4y ago
My work provides my phone and pays for the data plan. But I am allowed to put anything I want on it.

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

I think about the time tiktok was instrumental of making a joke out of president Trump's rally. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/after-trump-rally-falls-flat-tiktok-teens-take-victory-lap-n1231675 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/after-trump-ra... Facebook emotion experiment on users. It was facebook but it can easily be tiktok. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28051930 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28051930 TikTok admitting to finding and firing employee that spied on reporters https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-bytedance-workers-fired-data-access-journalists https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tiktok-by... And I can go on and on. The banning of tik tok as a social network is not unwarranted. It can be used to influence users and gather data. It makes sense to keep it under some control since we can never know how much influence foreign government agencies have over it. It should be and needs to be a thing.

happymellon 4y ago
Hang on, your second example of why TikTok should be banned is because Facebook did some bad things? And your third example is because TikTok fired people who abused their position? Whereas Facebook actually *did* psychological experiments on users according to your link, and Facebook has inappropriately used user data. When is Facebook going to be banned?
- einherjae 4y ago
  That Facebook admitted it doesn’t mean TikTok isn’t doing it without admitting so.
  - happymellon 4y ago
    Of course not. The links just don't back up their position. I don't care about banning TikTok, it's more the unevenness because "China evil". As for admitting it, Facebook has required whistleblowers to expose the terrible things they have done. TikTok has not done anywhere near as much damage to the US as meth and guns individually, but you just don't see the same effort put into solving either of those two problems.

colechristensen 4y ago

You have to expand your imagination to how many millions of us government employees there are and hiw many separate IT departments and government devices there are (and expanded to what private employees actually count as using government devices) It’s crazy complicated and while you could expect, say, FBI employees or those with security clearances to have already strict controls on their devices… there are lots of others out there, hundreds or thousands of separate entities controlling the rules on devices. Making it a law puts the role have one source everywhere, not subject to the judgement of an enormous number of organizations.

jvanderbot 4y ago

Phones are managed by an employer. Government phones are managed by the agency that issues them. What the law does is ensure that all agencies do not have tiktok. Pornhub will also likely appear on banned app lists, but they didn't feel it necessary to make a law. One interesting side effect, is that tiktok might now be bereft of government content, which sounds dry, but includes a lot of NASA's work.

serial_dev 4y ago
I know it's not the point, but Pornhub doesn't really have apps that could be banned. All they have is an apk for Android, no iOS at all. It's probably due to porn apps having been banned on the app stores since forever.
- bozhark 4y ago
  most apps are just UI's for websites anyways
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    Yes, but with the difference, that this website will be now always open and able to track and send data wherever, even when you don't use it.
ownlife 4y ago
To your second point -- I assumed that there would be an exception for government content, but my cursory reading of the bill (as a non-lawyer) suggests that... maybe there isn't. The only exceptions are for "law enforcement activities, national security interests and activities, and security researchers." I suspect that many government agencies with a presence on TikTok don't use TT directly but rather are using some PR/communications service or another to connect with it. In that case, I guess this wouldn't inhibit those agencies' ability to put content on the platform. (For the curious, page 2001 - https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/JRQ121922.PDF https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/JRQ12192...)
4y ago

andirk 4y ago

Where does one get this hub app? What about browsers? Most social media apps could very easily be used via mobile web browsers. If I had a company, I would not block Ticktok but would judge those who put that shit on a company device.

hackernewds 4y ago

This is in practice how it works, you're debating semantics.

rapjr9 4y ago

I thought the US Constitution prohibits laws that target only one person or corporation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/can-congress-punish-people-why-the-constitution-prohibits-bills-attainder https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/report/can-congres... If Congress bans TikTok they have to ban all apps like TikTok. Maybe they claim it is for national defense? But what business does not have some relation to national defense? Are they going to ban all engineering that originates in China? Passing a more general privacy law and providing funds for enforcement of it would have been a better way to address this.

kube-system 4y ago
I haven't been able to find the actual text of this law, but if it's written like the other 'TikTok ban' legislation I've seen -- they don't technically ban TikTok by name. The ones I have read are actually a ban on "social media services of that are based in or have a controlling parent company located in one of [x] countries" or something to that degree. Although headline writers have boiled that down to "TikTok ban".
- Brybry 4y ago
  It was part of a (very big) amendment [1] ("NO TIKTOK ON GOVERNMENT DEVICES") to H.R. 2617 [2] I really enjoy the transparency our government has but it could still be a lot better. Finding the final text of bills, especially before a bill is passed and when our voices might still matter, can be more difficult than it should be. [1] https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/volume-168/issue-197/senate-section/article/S7313-2#:~:text=service%20TikTok https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/volume-168/iss... [2] https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2617 https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/2617
fluidcruft 4y ago
How is Congress choosing not to allow a free app on devices they purchase even remotely a punishment? What's the actual harm to TikTok beyond the fact that they cannot monetize government employees?