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We should ban TikTok outright from American app stores, until the CCP allows American social media apps. It’s insane we don’t reciprocate.
by flappyeagle 4y ago
We should ban TikTok outright from American app stores, until the CCP allows American social media apps. It’s insane we don’t reciprocate.
- thepasswordis 4y agoNo, we shouldn’t.
- walls 4y agoWhy is freedom of speech suddenly not worth preserving when it comes from somewhere we don’t like?
- sundvor 4y agoI truly see it as a Chinese campaign to dumbify our society. We are swallowing it hook, line and sinker.
- walls 4y agoSo you’re saying freedom of speech is dangerous and should be curtailed? The same thing is happening locally.
- Karunamon 4y agoI keep hearing this and have been unable to find a shred of data to support it. Is this just a meme?
- dinkumthinkum 4y agoWell there are studies about the effects of TikTok. On sone level, it’s just common see sense. Whether it is a true campaign as such is questionable but it is clear the CCP tries to prevent its population being “dumbed down” from social media and other forms of entertainment and they are probably not unhappy to see the kind of content and its effects that TikTok has on the US population.
- Karunamon 4y agoOn the contrary, what I've seen of Douyin is no more substantive than what is on TikTok, it's just more compliant with CCP censorship. It is an entertainment medium first and has no pretensions about being anything else. This "common sense" you reference sounds like the same kind of "technology rots your brain" Luddite-ism that welled up for a while and then faded back into well deserved obscurity when radio and then television and then the Internet first proliferated. I want to see the studies or even any kind of actual data substantiating this "dumbing down" or even "harm" that doesn't reduce down to teenagers saying and doing stupid shit, as has been done for a good chunk of our species' time on this rock.
- dinkumthinkum 4y agoYou think recognizing the ill-effects of TikTok is just Luddite-ism? How nice for you. I mean, the evidence is on the Internet; here is one study[1]. I also think it is pretty clear that consuming TikTok regularly by children has a direct consequence on attention span, I don’t require the Cleveland Clinic to tell me that. I think there is a difference from mindlessly consuming TikTok than programming a C64 or playing an MMORPG with complex leveling/crafting/etc systems. Realizing that fact is not anti-technology. 1. https://movementdisorders.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mdc3.13316 https://movementdisorders.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/1...
- FactoryReboot 4y agoAgree. Content on Chinese tik Tok is very different.
- orhmeh09 4y agoIf you want this, pass laws to force that kind of content.
- mantas 4y agoOpium wars: revenge?
- keewee7 4y agoIt's unfair trade practice that Chinese developers have direct access to Western consumers while Western developers access to Chinese consumers is severely limited by the Chinese regime.
- ivanmontillam 4y agoIt's unfair to ourselves we let foreign companies prone to be used as government spionage tools to be in American app markets.
- edgyquant 4y agoIt’s unfair that we can’t have an honest conversation about tic Tok because people chalk it up to free speech. The Chinese Government and its subsidiaries do not have first amendment rights, but there’s a handful of passages in the constitution about dealing with foreign adversaries: which China is.
- kmeisthax 4y agoBecause the somewhere we don't like is one of the most censorious regimes on the planet. Free Speech needs to defend itself.
- walls 4y agoIsn’t the point of free speech that it can defend itself? Why do we need to police the content our citizens consume if that’s the case?
- wonnage 4y agoThe banning of speech will continue until free speech is defended, or something
- sidlls 4y agoFreedoms can't defend themselves, because they're abstract and subjective. Human beings decide what freedoms other human beings have, collectively and by various means with varying efficacy, such as use of force, tacit agreement, etc. People in China are certainly free to speak whatever they like. But if they say the wrong thing their genocidal dictatorship will stomp on them hard. Here in America we have means to defend free speech through the use of force, e.g., the courts, and a generally accepted social contract that some (many? I hope) are loath to break: and that freedom doesn't mean other individuals can't or won't react negatively (cf: Musk and Twitter).
- Quillbert182 4y agoFreedom of speech is not freedom of international trade.
- edgyquant 4y ago100%. The lengths people will go to defend social media companies is ridiculous. Let alone a Chinese botnet.
- nerdix 4y agoBecause TikTok the app is not speech. The content hosted on TikTok is speech. The speech could move somewhere else.
- pishpash 4y agoBut every platform is editorialized by algorithm. Speech moving elsewhere means editing speech.
- kelseyfrog 4y agoWe shouldn't parent our citizens. If it's important to them, they're free to choose another social media platform or make their own. When we decide we know how to run people's lives better than them, we run head first into authoritarianism. If the US goes down that path then the CCP has already won.
- jhanschoo 4y agoThe reply you are replying to isn't making an argument regarding government paternalism, but regarding economic protectionism. You aren't addressing that. An analogy: embargos against countries that do not adhere to international IP treaties.
- KennyBlanken 4y agoIt's not really a matter of "international IP treaties", Tiktok's app is spyware that collects extensive data about users and includes remote command and control capabilities that have no excuse or reason for existing in a social media app. https://penetrum.com/tiktok/Penetrum_TikTok_Security_Analysis_whitepaper.pdf https://penetrum.com/tiktok/Penetrum_TikTok_Security_Analysi...
- jhanschoo 4y agoYes, the reason the government gives isn't about economic protectionism either, but that's the argument the person was making.
- babypuncher 4y agoAmerican social media apps do the same yet for some reason we are OK with them doing it.
- dinkumthinkum 4y agoHonestly, I think the content on TikTok is doing more harm than anything else.
- roenxi 4y ago
- cute_boi 4y agoThis is wrong. It should be up to individual to decide what they should watch and what they shouldn't. There is difference between US government and CCP. With your logic, EU and all other government should ban facebook, twitter as there is high probability that US companies supplies data to 3 letter companies. What is need is good rules and regulations that applies to all companies equally. We live in globalized world.
- amluto 4y agoI’m not convinced that every American who wants to should be permitted to stream their location to a Chinese company. I can see arguments either way, but the national security consideration seems to be quite real.
- KennyBlanken 4y agoLocation? Oh sweet summer child. Tiktok's Android app has been disassembled enough to tell that the built-in browser likely contains a keylogger, but also contains the ability to receive plaintext commands and execute them in the Java VM. Now realize that tiktok likely has location, camera, photo, and microphone permissions. Oh yeah, and they've been spending lots of effort on anti-virtual-machine and obfuscation techniques. A data leak at Alibaba revealed they're collecting: GPS locations, full lists of mobile contacts, SMS logs, IMSI numbers, IMEI numbers, device models and versions, stored app data from previous installations, and memory data. https://penetrum.com/tiktok/Penetrum_TikTok_Security_Analysis_whitepaper.pdf https://penetrum.com/tiktok/Penetrum_TikTok_Security_Analysi...
- babypuncher 4y agoI can't speak for Android, but on iOS it is trivial to prevent apps from getting any of this data. Remote code execution like you describe would directly violate Apple's rules. You can't gather GPS, SMS logs, or most of the other data you mention without explicit permission from the user.
- 4y ago
- spullara 4y agoWe should treat the banning of our internet companies by foreign nations that same as banning imports of goods.
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoWe aren't China. If we became like China, it would be very sad.
- eunos 4y agoChina allowed US social media as long as they allowed China to supervise content including censorships
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoNo, that is assumed, but China never extended that offer. Censorship in China is itself censored, so they don't technically admit to banning any US social media, it simply doesn't work for reasons.
- eunos 4y agoTwitter, Quora, Facebook was not blocked for some times. Few apps like LinkedIn complied with Chinese govt.
- seanmcdirmid 4y agoThey weren't blocked and then they were, but there was no law to do it, there was no published official action to do it, it was just not working one day for reasons. There are no formal instructions to "comply", you have to rely solely on your guanxi to do it, and then the work needed to stay in good graces with government basically amounts to "don't make us mad" (like, no stories about Xi's family wealth, no embarrassing the government, everything else might get you a hand wringing but can be forgiven). They have to work like this because freedom of speech is guaranteed in the Chinese constitution. But since China isn’t really a rule of law country, the Chinese government works through it informally, which isn’t very compatible in how western companies can work.
- anon38474924 4y agoFacebook was blocked after the 2009 Xinjiang terrorist attacks. ETIM was using it to coordinate their attacks and Facebook didn't work with the government.
- seanmcdirmid 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- fexecve 4y agoTiktok will still work in a browser, and will work on PCs and laptops. So I'm okay with this. Go ahead, try to keep me off of tiktok, mom and dad.
- powerapple 4y agothe fact is that American social media apps are allowed when they comply with Chinese laws (censorships). And Chinese apps are allowed in the US because they comply with US laws.