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> No. The "developer" is often as much a clueless victim and tool of other forces who misuse her work. Eh. It's implausible to me that we're simultaneously bot
by wpietri 4y ago
> No. The "developer" is often as much a clueless victim and tool of other forces who misuse her work.
Eh. It's implausible to me that we're simultaneously both highly paid geniuses and clueless tools.
Fundamentally, I think we need to decide whether we are professionals or minions. Professionals being people who have not just a duty to the paycheck, but also to the profession and society at large. See, for example, the ACM/IEEE code of ethics for software: https://ethics.acm.org/code-of-ethics/software-engineering-code/ https://ethics.acm.org/code-of-ethics/software-engineering-c...
If somebody wants to say, "Yup, I'm a minion, just going to build the volcano lair and the atomic rockets, and I'm not going to worry about where they'll come down," I will at least commend them for their honesty. But otherwise, I think we need to act like professionals and take responsibility for being clueful about the impacts of our work. Between the need for software and the rise of remote work, our negotiating power with employers has never been stronger. Let's use it for something beyond foosball tables.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago> It's implausible to me that we're simultaneously both highly paid geniuses and clueless tools. It can happen to the best of us [1]. "" I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. "" - Gen. Smedley Butler [1] https://man.fas.org/smedley.htm https://man.fas.org/smedley.htm
- fanso99 4y agoHonestly, that's not a great example. Re-evaluating your ethical impact on the world is not the same as understanding the direct consequences of your daily work. Both are important, but really different. After all we are not discussing some more abstract issues of modern software propagating capitalistic values (we are all "the system", etc, etc).
- trinsic2 4y ago> Honestly, that's not a great example. Re-evaluating your ethical impact on the world is not the same as understanding the direct consequences of your daily work. Both are important, but really different. Why does the difference matter again?
- fanso99 4y agoBecause looking back at the decades of your work while being retired is just a sweet ethical exercise with very few direct personal and financial consequences. If you are an engineer employing dark UX patterns _today_ you must look at yourself and evaluate the ethics of your work _today_. This will likely have direct personal and financial consequences. So the stakes are completely different.
- nonrandomstring 4y agoI always took it that Butler underwent an epiphany after years of believing something else. Maybe it was a case of eyes wide open. Nonetheless your distinction stands and yes it's very significant. I wonder how many developers are being hoodwinked and how many are just not being very honest with themselves.
- fanso99 4y agoI might be wrong, but I always lean towards this being the result of prioritization. Most engineers know the difference but prioritize other aspects than ethical. I am not even judging that, just describing. After all, implementing a dark UX pattern that will inconvenience some unknown to you users is not as high priority as providing to your own family.
- cfraenkel 4y agoIt's a different mindset. When you're in uniform, under oath, you don't speak out, you salute and do what you're ordered to. When you retire, you take the uniform off and are your own man again.
- wpietri 4y agoI think Butler had a harder problem. His job was to produce violence and threats of violence. It's harder to know whether that's truly used for good ends than, say, a web form.
- trinsic2 4y agoYes. I think this is exactly the issue. We can't on one hand say we're cogs in a wheel, and on the other complain about the state that we are in. The choice begins with us. Don't work for companies that produce software that is unethical. Do what ever it takes.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago> act like professionals and take responsibility for being clueful about the impacts of our work. Well said. I think there's a lot of work to do before we can even figure out what those impacts are and how to work in such a way as to minimise the harms. Something along the lines of a Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm".
- cfraenkel 4y agoReplace 'harm' with 'evil' and I thing you've got something there....