17 ms·

Musk’s desire to own the Libs is alienating the buyers of Teslas

65 points by zdw 4y ago

Waterluvian 4y ago
> Adjusted for population, Teslas are ~5x more common in heavily Democratic counties than they are in heavily Republican counties. What about adjusted for income? Are republicans truly not buying as many electric cars? I know there’s a bunch of stereotype behind renewables and gas and such, but is that enough to explain a 5x difference?
- kneebonian 4y ago
  This is a good point. I'd buy a Tesla if it wasn't so expensive at this point spending 30k on a care just isn't something I could justify.
  - klipt 4y ago
    It's 2022, there now are decent EVs that are cheaper than Teslas.
- kriops 4y ago
  It’s broken down by county and not individuals for a reason I’m guessing. Urban areas tend to tilt dem, rural areas tend to tilt gop. The utility of EVs is undeniably higher in urban areas. To emphasize: I’m just speculating.
  - jimbob45 4y ago
    Not just that, but also that rural areas are less likely to have sufficient charging infrastructure.
    - gpm 4y ago
      Huh? In rural areas everyone has a driveway beside their house they can run an extension cord to. It's urban areas where charging can be difficult because most people don't have a parking spot that they own and can reasonably supply electricity to.
      - CydeWeys 4y ago
        Agreed. If you own your own detached house it's easy to charge your EV. Get a 240V 50A circuit put in and you can charge basically any EV back up to full in the time period between arriving home in the evening and first heading out the next day.
- calchris42 4y ago
  Yep. Not great data science, although the conclusion is likely true-ish. Also I suspect big urban vs suburban vs rural differences in current EV buyers given range and charging factors. That happens to also mostly correlate to politics.
- epistasis 4y ago
  If one wants to flaunt wealth and social consciousness, trucks are the flip side to the Tesla. It's pretty easy to get a truck up into the high five figures.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  Rural people buy Trucks and SUV's not cars. This is why Ford has exited the Car market except fo the Mustang. Tesla's "CyberTruck" while popular with the same "blue district" crowd that likes the Model S, was NOT popular with the buyers of F150's or Silverado's The model Y would be, but is largely out of the price range for people looking for a mid-size SUV, in that price range people want a Full Size SUV. the model 3 is purely a "City Dwellers" Auto
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Cities skew towards wealth, population density, and democrats. The republicans who buy teslas are just a lot more likely to live in democratic districts. (Voting preferences aren’t evenly distributed among demographics) Rural districts are much more likely to be Republican and owning a tesla in such places also makes a lot less sense. Fewer charging locations and a high likelihood of trips that will require more than a full charge.
  - erik_seaberg 4y ago
    EVs are a better fit for suburban or rural sprawl (attached private garages) than for high density street parking with no power outlets.
- eqvinox 4y ago
  Does it really matter? An important reason to buy an EV (particularly if they're more expensive than gasoline cars, which is sometimes but not always true) is to combat climate change. Belief and concern about climate change are strongly politically correlated in the US, and he's very specifically unaligning himself from the political group that cares. Does this explain the entire 5× difference? Probably not. But: > Are republicans truly not buying as many electric cars? Very, very probably yes.
- coffeefirst 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm not buying the literal premise of the article. There's a lot of wealthy conservatives in those areas who are in the market for fancy cars. But the reality might be worse: A few years ago Teslas were widely seen as really good machines, the hero that followed Car Guys vs Bean Counters, whether that was justified or not. I'm just not hearing that anymore, from anyone. The positive vibes are just... gone. I suspect the damage to the brand is massive, but not strictly political. It turns out, most people don't like shitposters.
- buzzkill90 4y ago
  I suppose if you torture the data enough, it confesses =D. I believe EV ownership is not associated to political orientation, all other things being equal. (source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966692318302928#t0015 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096669231...)
- zamalek 4y ago
  EVs are extremely expensive compared to the equivalent ICE. Democratic districts tend to be more affluent[1]. This makes sense, in a naive sense. A good deal of Republican votes come from the central states. While these states tend to have a COL that matches the AGI of the residents, a Tesla costs about the same no matter where you live in the country. [1]: https://www.standingforfreedom.com/2021/04/irs-data-shows-that-democrats-not-republicans-are-now-the-party-of-the-rich/ https://www.standingforfreedom.com/2021/04/irs-data-shows-th...
warning26 4y ago
The guy has completely lost his mind. It’s kind of sad, because I really liked the rockets and cars.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  He’s been behaving strangely for a long time, just the topic and publicity has changed a bit.
- buzzkill90 4y ago
  He knows what he's doing. He likes to take risk, move fast and break things. Money is probably something he doesn't care about....
MangoCoffee 4y ago
"own the Libs"? we eight years old?
- octonion 4y ago
  [dead]
- rewgs 4y ago
  He’s acting like he is.
  - MangoCoffee 4y ago
    we should all sink to his level or author's level. lets "own the Libs"
    - rewgs 4y ago
      The title is clearly a tongue-in-cheek re-use of a term that is said with a straight face by people such as him. Relax.
- moontear 4y ago
  No, but apparently Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1525549535786717184?s=46&t=bXfW4-ohX8LUvmETkWkEew https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1525549535786717184?s=46...
- cmcconomy 4y ago
  have you looked around lately
  - MangoCoffee 4y ago
    lets sink to that level.
Anon1096 4y ago
The article is sorely missing actual data showing that sales are going down instead of just guessing that they will based on some correlation between democratic-voting counties (not even directly mapping to people, lol) and tesla registrations.
- z3c0 4y ago
  I have kept this matter at an arms length, mostly due to the low-quality conjecture surrounding it. After reading this post, I am even more convinced that I should ignore it. Every "source" in the article was just a link to a Tweet, amounting to what is not more than a summary of a bunch of speculative tweets of screenshots. To think that I enabled JS for that...
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  So their stock is collapsing for no reason?
googlryas 4y ago
It's also possible that the TSLA share price is just coming back down to reality with the general market downturn earlier this year, and people be buying relatively fewer Teslas because there is some competition now, and gas prices are back down to a "normal" level.
- papito 4y ago
  TSLA is down WAY more than most other automakers. Also, the auto stocks have been pretty much sideways if you look at the last five years. There is no correlation.
dougb5 4y ago
Maybe he sees it as more profitable to play to his base and get higher market share there, than to try to unify and get a lower overall market share? Certainly a lot of politicians use this strategy.
jeffbee 4y ago
The weird nerd defense of Musk’s attack on Twitter is that by owning the libs he expands the Tesla buyer pool to MAGA truckers. Can’t say I’m buying that. The problem with the whole “owning the libs” approach is the presence of the libs is required. Otherwise the right wing trolls can’t enjoy themselves. If Musk runs off Twitter’s legacy user base, all he has left is a bad copy of Gab.
glonq 4y ago
As a Tesla owner (but not a Musk fan!) I've definitely noticed a lot more scorn and spite directed towards Teslas and Tesla owners recently. The average person is already poorly emotionaly/intellectually equipped to resolve "I can dislike Thing A1 but like Thing A2", but with cancel culture mentality so pervasive now, people are expected to hate all Things A_
- tosc 4y ago
  People developing negative associations with brands because of the behavior of their representatives long pre-dates “cancel culture”.
- duxup 4y ago
  People identify with and identify others with brands… and I suspect they have done that since brands existed.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  The average person does not care about twitter, and even if they do, there's still a half half split on whether they'd disagree or not with Elon. The entire thing is almost completely confined to a certain, extremely online slice of the internet.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    No just about everybody has an opinion about Elon now. The news loves Twitter so everybody gets to hear about it. My parents who have never touched Twitter are asking me what I think about him. Worlds (once) richest man buys social network and acts foolish is a compelling story.
- bestcoder69 4y ago
  Maybe the average person doesn’t want to be struck by a car running a half-baked FSD? I’ve seen a lot more about this lately - & from people like Dan Luu, so, far from hysterical. It’s also invalid to think, “since people cancelled A1 recently, it must be illogical to have built up a new-found dislike of A2.” Plenty of independent reasons to hate A2! Correlation and causation, y’know?
mrjaeger 4y ago
As is often the case, Matt Levine (writer of Money Stuff) had some fun hypothesising about how this might be actually part of his "plan". 'Tesla Inc. is the main source of Musk’s wealth, and his main goal in life is selling lots of Teslas. He has sold all the Teslas that he can sell to coastal elite liberals, and now he faces the daunting challenge of selling electric cars to social conservatives. Acquiring Twitter and turning it into a right-wing media company with himself as the main character might be bad for, like, Twitter ad sales, but that is small potatoes if it is good for selling Teslas to Republicans. “Our cars are electric, yes, but they are free from the woke mind virus” is perhaps a good pitch.' I don't think Matt (or myself) put much weight into this being his true reasoning, but it's a fun thought exercise :)
- atomicnumber3 4y ago
  Matt Levine is great. I spent half a decade in HFT and he was one of the few writers who was actually good to read.
- tosc 4y ago
  > He has sold all the Teslas that he can sell to coastal elite liberals If Musk really believes this, then it’s safe to call him a pathetic businessman, since he doesn’t understand the concept of repeat customers.
- ascagnel_ 4y ago
  > He has sold all the Teslas that he can sell to coastal elite liberals If you think this is true, I have a bridge to sell you. Tesla right now owns the lion's share of the EV market (a late-November report put it at 65% of the market), but that share has already started to slip (it's down from 71% the year prior). But they're still a small player in the overall auto market (~3.5%), especially compared to established operations like Ford (~13.5%), Toyota (~15%), and GM (~16.25%). And now that two of those three marques are making heavy EV bets, I'd expect the EV market to grow overall, something Tesla is increasingly poorly positioned to take advantage of. Put another way: Westchester County has the highest rate of Tesla ownership (6,926 total, 69.4/10k residents). Using the tool in the original post, there were 685,843 total vehicle registrations in Westchester County in 2022, so Tesla accounts for just 1.01% of vehicle registrations. What CEO would accept such a low level as the maximum addressable market?
duxup 4y ago
I feel like the data here is way too disconnected from “alienating” and “own the libs”. Personally I’d argue Musk’s perceived political leanings are likely more about him personally and less about politics / a well thought out point of view…
valine 4y ago
I’d speculate that even if he’s not doing it intentionally, owning the libs will help boost sales of his cyber truck when it launches next year. The ford f150 is the best selling vehicle of all types in the US, and pickup trucks more often then not are purchased by conservatives.
- duxup 4y ago
  That actually seems likely to you?
- jeffbee 4y ago
  And there is no evidence whatsoever that the cyber truck exists as a mass production vehicle.
  - ascagnel_ 4y ago
    Meanwhile, Ford announced in April that they were aiming to produce 150,000 F-150s by the end of 2022 (up from a 40k target). I'm bearish on Tesla overall, since the traditional automakers are trying to pivot to EVs. The EV market will grow at Tesla's expense.
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  And conservatives will buy the ford f150 or lightning. I get a chuckle even thinking about the people in my rural hometown bummin around in a cybertruck. They’re is no way those good ol boys would be clownin around in that thing.
  - rsynnott 4y ago
    I’m really confused who the target market is for that thing. It doesn’t seem practical for a work vehicle, and I assume people who drive pickup trucks for non-work purposes are looking for a certain, probably-not-that, aesthetic.
    - nickthegreek 4y ago
mynameishere 4y ago
Man, you'd think the big story would be the infiltration and associated censorship of Twitter via the three letter agencies of the government. That seems interesting, doesn't it? When the FBI is guiding Twitter's content policy at some point the defense that this "isn't a first Amendment issue because it's a private corporation blah blah" starts to fall apart. Instead the narrative is about how all of Musk's businesses will fail because of his changes at Twitter and how angry liberals are about it. Are liberals really that upset because the new CEO made the world's tiniest baby step toward free speech? I suspect that the FBI has its paws in all the major media organizations as well--and that this isn't really troubling to them, because they are all pretty much on the same page, in propaganda terms. But Twitter is one big comment section and it's a tougher nut.
- tosc 4y ago
  > world's tiniest baby step toward free speech? Do you honestly believe that we can’t speak freely in the US?
  - findalex 4y ago
    When the FBI (i.e. the federal government) is asking a public company to censor you... I'd say it's getting dicey. If we don't have a free speech problem, then we have an abuse of executive powers problem - but we already knew that. One might argue Twitter didn't have to take the censorship advice from the feds but IMO they shouldn't be doing this type of lobbying adversarial to US citizens.
    - tosc 4y ago
      The federal government is free to ask for whatever it likes. It’s pretty absurd to imagine otherwise. What it can’t do is punish people for what they say. Twitter as you point out, is a business that is free to do whatever it likes, and publish whatever it likes on its website. At no point did Twitter enter into an agreement with people posting tweets about who they will be shown to. That’s not part of its business. Elon doesn’t seem to be doing anything differently. He’s using Twitter to advocate for his political views, and ban people he doesn’t like. Associating Elon with freedom of speech is a red herring. There is no connection. That said, everything that people keep claiming to be ‘censored’ is somehow public knowledge, and nobody is afraid the government is going to punish them for talking about it. The idea that freedom of speech is under threat because of anything to do with Twitter just isn’t in contact with reality.
juanbyrge 4y ago
One data point: my wife and I were set in getting a Tesla as our next car. We are now in the market for a new EV, but we both decided against Tesla due to Elon's shenanigans. We will wait for the Kia EV9 or something coming out next year.
roamerz 4y ago
I think Musks idea of making Twitter a more economically viable, open, and transparent platform for free speech was just for that. I’m sure he did that knowing that Libs would be butt hurt and that would introduce challenges to the first goal of making Twitter economically viable but kudos to him for taking the morally high road!
olalonde 4y ago
This narrative is flawed for a few reasons (and I suspect it is an instance of wishful thinking). Firstly, the stock market crash affected all companies, not just TSLA. Second, there's no evidence to suggest that Musk wants to "own the Libs" or that Democrats have actually stopped buying Tesla cars. He is simply in favor of free speech. Third, even if Musk was actually trying to "own the Libs" and it was affecting Tesla sales, any decrease in TSLA purchases by Democrats could be balanced out by an increase in purchases by Republicans.
- findalex 4y ago
  I'd also like to know how to tell the difference between "owning the libs" and "saying things the libs don't happen to like". I guess one implies a purely troll motive.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- davewritescode 4y ago
  > This narrative is flawed for a few reasons. Firstly, the stock market crash affected all companies, not just TSLA. TSLA has been absolutely hammered above and beyond most other stocks. There's not many companies that are down 70% off their highs and at this point TSLA has lost more than bitcoin, an asset that's currently in the middle of the biggest financial scandal since Bernie Madoff. > Second, there's no evidence to suggest that Musk wants to "own the Libs" or that Democrats have actually stopped buying Tesla cars He's publicly thrown his weight behind Republican candidates and said Democrats were bad. He's let Donald Trump back on twitter and re-platformed lots of ultra right wing folks including people who stormed the capital. Most CEOs quietly donate to the party/candidates of their choice. Some do it very quietly with PACs that don't even require disclosure. Openly advocating for specific candidates is a recipe for disaster as a major corporate leader. > He is simply in favor of free speech. I agree, free speech is great. Now explain how this isn't a PR disaster for Tesla? > Third, even if Musk was actually trying to "own the Libs" and it was affecting Tesla sales, any decrease in TSLA purchases by Democrats could be balanced out by an increase in purchases by Republicans. Read the damn article. Tesla ownership is a lot more prevalent in rich, liberal communities. The exact communities he's alienating. This should surprise absolutely nobody. Instead of taking sides in political slap fights, Musk needs to put his ego aside, shut the fuck up and take money from anyone who wants to drive a Tesla. People buy cars for a lot of reasons but one of this big reasons people buy expensive cars is because they feel it makes some sort of statement to the world about who they are. The statement a Tesla made 2 years ago was "I'm a forward thinking environmentalist" whereas today it says "I support Elon Musk".
electric_mayhem 4y ago
I have a 3, and tesla Solar with powerwalls. I bought the car in 2019 and the solar in ‘20 before Musk went full buffoon. If I were buying today, I’d buy the solar and powerwalls because they’re unbeatable value. But I would not buy a 3 today due to Musk being an embarrassment. I did buy some Mazda 3 badges for my car, though, so that’ll be nice. More importantly, I have multiple homeowners among my friends and family who want solar but won’t consider Tesla anymore because of Elon’s behvaior. They’re literally willing to spend more money on competitors worse offerings just to not give Tesla -and Musk- any of their money. Worse, I have even more car enthusiast friends- all of whom used to covet the model 3 for its performance and value proposition… who are now buying other cars just to avoid Tesla. As a tesla product owner and stockholder (bag holder, now?), the best thing Wlon can probably do for me is to step down as Tesla ceo and/or retire from the public eye. He’s single-handedly absolutely alienated what would otherwise be his strongest demographics. Probably should be the subject of a shareholder lawsuit.
davewritescode 4y ago
I don't know why any of this is surprising. I don't know anything about the personal politics of any other major automotive CEO and my guess is that it isn't by accident. These companies know their asking their customers to spend a large amount of money on their products and negative feelings towards any particular brand aren't helpful. Everyone who's ever own a business knows that money from Republicans is just as good as money from Democrats. Michael Jordan declined to throw his name behind a Democrat running for office in 1990 because "Republicans buy sneakers too". Musk thinks it's his job to influence public discourse. That's not a good thing if you're a Tesla shareholder or someone invested in one of Musks other businesses. I've been saying this forever, even on HN. Tesla is a better company without Musk running it and the board should just rip the bandaid off and move on. Musk is dishonest, distracted and unable to meet basic expectations at this point. Products are late, engineering is distracted and people are starting to realize that Tesla will never meet the expectations set by the price of its stock. The great automotive brands, even the ones NAMED after their founders are larger than any particular leader. Musk has been a great for getting Tesla where it is today, but his style of leadership isn't what you need at a company the size of Tesla today.
- robomartin 4y ago
  > Musk thinks it's his job to influence public discourse. To be fair, that is not what he thinks. He is after truth/facts in public discourse without undue political influence from any political camp or government agency. The reason Democrats are rattled about this is the fact that the left has behaved badly in this regard. It is the reason for which this comment will be mercilessly downvoted and flagged. The truth, sometimes, hurts. And yet, it is the truth. My standard suggestion for anyone who can remain neutral and open-minded is to imagine the opposite scenario. In this case a Twitter and media dominated by right wing politics and influence, from every single employee all the way up to government and universities. That scenario would be just as horrific and undesirable as the current status quo. It is in everyone’s interest that the masses not be subjected to undue influence by any political party, not one. That’s what Musk wants. The fact that he is being vilified is a sad reflection of a simple reality: In politics those purporting to be one thing are often the opposite. People say they are for tolerance, equity, inclusion, fairness, open-mindedness, access, etc., and yet, in real life that’s a lie. The minute someone challenges their ability to own the means of communication and messaging none of those things matter. Remarkable.
greggarious 4y ago
As much as I love to dunk on Elon, why would "alienating libs" stop people from buying Teslas? People still buy, say, BMWs, Audis, and other cars which are quite famous for only being owned by assholes ;-) PS: Also I must include an obligatory "I'm not a liberal, I'm further left than that". (Please respect my free expression and stop dichotimizing the American electorate. Kthxbye!!)
- nickthegreek 4y ago
  I am a liberal. I test drove a Tesla at the beginning of Covid. Loved it. I will not be buying one. I love my bmw r9t, seeing it brings me joy. No way am I spending $50k to look at a car that reminds me a Musk. Who knows how much further he will slide into the abyss.
- lambic2 4y ago
  I don't remember any CEO of BMW, Audi, etc. ridiculing a group of people on a daily basis because of who they voted for... The idea of spending 50-70k on a product that will make the richest man (ok 2nd richest now) in the world richer, who is essentially ridiculing/trolling you on a daily basis for your voting decision is just a no-go for a lot of people.

65 points by zdw 4y ago

> Adjusted for population, Teslas are ~5x more common in heavily Democratic counties than they are in heavily Republican counties. What about adjusted for income? Are republicans truly not buying as many electric cars? I know there’s a bunch of stereotype behind renewables and gas and such, but is that enough to explain a 5x difference?

kneebonian 4y ago
This is a good point. I'd buy a Tesla if it wasn't so expensive at this point spending 30k on a care just isn't something I could justify.
- klipt 4y ago
  It's 2022, there now are decent EVs that are cheaper than Teslas.
kriops 4y ago
It’s broken down by county and not individuals for a reason I’m guessing. Urban areas tend to tilt dem, rural areas tend to tilt gop. The utility of EVs is undeniably higher in urban areas. To emphasize: I’m just speculating.
- jimbob45 4y ago
  Not just that, but also that rural areas are less likely to have sufficient charging infrastructure.
  - gpm 4y ago
    Huh? In rural areas everyone has a driveway beside their house they can run an extension cord to. It's urban areas where charging can be difficult because most people don't have a parking spot that they own and can reasonably supply electricity to.
    - CydeWeys 4y ago
      Agreed. If you own your own detached house it's easy to charge your EV. Get a 240V 50A circuit put in and you can charge basically any EV back up to full in the time period between arriving home in the evening and first heading out the next day.
calchris42 4y ago
Yep. Not great data science, although the conclusion is likely true-ish. Also I suspect big urban vs suburban vs rural differences in current EV buyers given range and charging factors. That happens to also mostly correlate to politics.
epistasis 4y ago
If one wants to flaunt wealth and social consciousness, trucks are the flip side to the Tesla. It's pretty easy to get a truck up into the high five figures.
phpisthebest 4y ago
Rural people buy Trucks and SUV's not cars. This is why Ford has exited the Car market except fo the Mustang. Tesla's "CyberTruck" while popular with the same "blue district" crowd that likes the Model S, was NOT popular with the buyers of F150's or Silverado's The model Y would be, but is largely out of the price range for people looking for a mid-size SUV, in that price range people want a Full Size SUV. the model 3 is purely a "City Dwellers" Auto
colechristensen 4y ago
Cities skew towards wealth, population density, and democrats. The republicans who buy teslas are just a lot more likely to live in democratic districts. (Voting preferences aren’t evenly distributed among demographics) Rural districts are much more likely to be Republican and owning a tesla in such places also makes a lot less sense. Fewer charging locations and a high likelihood of trips that will require more than a full charge.
- erik_seaberg 4y ago
  EVs are a better fit for suburban or rural sprawl (attached private garages) than for high density street parking with no power outlets.
eqvinox 4y ago
Does it really matter? An important reason to buy an EV (particularly if they're more expensive than gasoline cars, which is sometimes but not always true) is to combat climate change. Belief and concern about climate change are strongly politically correlated in the US, and he's very specifically unaligning himself from the political group that cares. Does this explain the entire 5× difference? Probably not. But: > Are republicans truly not buying as many electric cars? Very, very probably yes.
coffeefirst 4y ago
Yeah, I'm not buying the literal premise of the article. There's a lot of wealthy conservatives in those areas who are in the market for fancy cars. But the reality might be worse: A few years ago Teslas were widely seen as really good machines, the hero that followed Car Guys vs Bean Counters, whether that was justified or not. I'm just not hearing that anymore, from anyone. The positive vibes are just... gone. I suspect the damage to the brand is massive, but not strictly political. It turns out, most people don't like shitposters.
buzzkill90 4y ago
I suppose if you torture the data enough, it confesses =D. I believe EV ownership is not associated to political orientation, all other things being equal. (source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966692318302928#t0015 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096669231...)
zamalek 4y ago
EVs are extremely expensive compared to the equivalent ICE. Democratic districts tend to be more affluent[1]. This makes sense, in a naive sense. A good deal of Republican votes come from the central states. While these states tend to have a COL that matches the AGI of the residents, a Tesla costs about the same no matter where you live in the country. [1]: https://www.standingforfreedom.com/2021/04/irs-data-shows-that-democrats-not-republicans-are-now-the-party-of-the-rich/ https://www.standingforfreedom.com/2021/04/irs-data-shows-th...

warning26 4y ago

The guy has completely lost his mind. It’s kind of sad, because I really liked the rockets and cars.

colechristensen 4y ago
He’s been behaving strangely for a long time, just the topic and publicity has changed a bit.
buzzkill90 4y ago
He knows what he's doing. He likes to take risk, move fast and break things. Money is probably something he doesn't care about....

MangoCoffee 4y ago

"own the Libs"? we eight years old?

octonion 4y ago
[dead]
rewgs 4y ago
He’s acting like he is.
- MangoCoffee 4y ago
  we should all sink to his level or author's level. lets "own the Libs"
  - rewgs 4y ago
    The title is clearly a tongue-in-cheek re-use of a term that is said with a straight face by people such as him. Relax.
moontear 4y ago
No, but apparently Musk: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1525549535786717184?s=46&t=bXfW4-ohX8LUvmETkWkEew https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1525549535786717184?s=46...
cmcconomy 4y ago
have you looked around lately
- MangoCoffee 4y ago
  lets sink to that level.

Anon1096 4y ago

The article is sorely missing actual data showing that sales are going down instead of just guessing that they will based on some correlation between democratic-voting counties (not even directly mapping to people, lol) and tesla registrations.

z3c0 4y ago
I have kept this matter at an arms length, mostly due to the low-quality conjecture surrounding it. After reading this post, I am even more convinced that I should ignore it. Every "source" in the article was just a link to a Tweet, amounting to what is not more than a summary of a bunch of speculative tweets of screenshots. To think that I enabled JS for that...
encryptluks2 4y ago
So their stock is collapsing for no reason?

googlryas 4y ago

It's also possible that the TSLA share price is just coming back down to reality with the general market downturn earlier this year, and people be buying relatively fewer Teslas because there is some competition now, and gas prices are back down to a "normal" level.

papito 4y ago
TSLA is down WAY more than most other automakers. Also, the auto stocks have been pretty much sideways if you look at the last five years. There is no correlation.

dougb5 4y ago

Maybe he sees it as more profitable to play to his base and get higher market share there, than to try to unify and get a lower overall market share? Certainly a lot of politicians use this strategy.

jeffbee 4y ago

The weird nerd defense of Musk’s attack on Twitter is that by owning the libs he expands the Tesla buyer pool to MAGA truckers. Can’t say I’m buying that. The problem with the whole “owning the libs” approach is the presence of the libs is required. Otherwise the right wing trolls can’t enjoy themselves. If Musk runs off Twitter’s legacy user base, all he has left is a bad copy of Gab.

glonq 4y ago

As a Tesla owner (but not a Musk fan!) I've definitely noticed a lot more scorn and spite directed towards Teslas and Tesla owners recently. The average person is already poorly emotionaly/intellectually equipped to resolve "I can dislike Thing A1 but like Thing A2", but with cancel culture mentality so pervasive now, people are expected to hate all Things A_

tosc 4y ago
People developing negative associations with brands because of the behavior of their representatives long pre-dates “cancel culture”.
duxup 4y ago
People identify with and identify others with brands… and I suspect they have done that since brands existed.
mardifoufs 4y ago
The average person does not care about twitter, and even if they do, there's still a half half split on whether they'd disagree or not with Elon. The entire thing is almost completely confined to a certain, extremely online slice of the internet.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  No just about everybody has an opinion about Elon now. The news loves Twitter so everybody gets to hear about it. My parents who have never touched Twitter are asking me what I think about him. Worlds (once) richest man buys social network and acts foolish is a compelling story.
bestcoder69 4y ago
Maybe the average person doesn’t want to be struck by a car running a half-baked FSD? I’ve seen a lot more about this lately - & from people like Dan Luu, so, far from hysterical. It’s also invalid to think, “since people cancelled A1 recently, it must be illogical to have built up a new-found dislike of A2.” Plenty of independent reasons to hate A2! Correlation and causation, y’know?

mrjaeger 4y ago

As is often the case, Matt Levine (writer of Money Stuff) had some fun hypothesising about how this might be actually part of his "plan". 'Tesla Inc. is the main source of Musk’s wealth, and his main goal in life is selling lots of Teslas. He has sold all the Teslas that he can sell to coastal elite liberals, and now he faces the daunting challenge of selling electric cars to social conservatives. Acquiring Twitter and turning it into a right-wing media company with himself as the main character might be bad for, like, Twitter ad sales, but that is small potatoes if it is good for selling Teslas to Republicans. “Our cars are electric, yes, but they are free from the woke mind virus” is perhaps a good pitch.' I don't think Matt (or myself) put much weight into this being his true reasoning, but it's a fun thought exercise :)

atomicnumber3 4y ago
Matt Levine is great. I spent half a decade in HFT and he was one of the few writers who was actually good to read.
tosc 4y ago
> He has sold all the Teslas that he can sell to coastal elite liberals If Musk really believes this, then it’s safe to call him a pathetic businessman, since he doesn’t understand the concept of repeat customers.
ascagnel_ 4y ago
> He has sold all the Teslas that he can sell to coastal elite liberals If you think this is true, I have a bridge to sell you. Tesla right now owns the lion's share of the EV market (a late-November report put it at 65% of the market), but that share has already started to slip (it's down from 71% the year prior). But they're still a small player in the overall auto market (~3.5%), especially compared to established operations like Ford (~13.5%), Toyota (~15%), and GM (~16.25%). And now that two of those three marques are making heavy EV bets, I'd expect the EV market to grow overall, something Tesla is increasingly poorly positioned to take advantage of. Put another way: Westchester County has the highest rate of Tesla ownership (6,926 total, 69.4/10k residents). Using the tool in the original post, there were 685,843 total vehicle registrations in Westchester County in 2022, so Tesla accounts for just 1.01% of vehicle registrations. What CEO would accept such a low level as the maximum addressable market?

duxup 4y ago

I feel like the data here is way too disconnected from “alienating” and “own the libs”. Personally I’d argue Musk’s perceived political leanings are likely more about him personally and less about politics / a well thought out point of view…

valine 4y ago

I’d speculate that even if he’s not doing it intentionally, owning the libs will help boost sales of his cyber truck when it launches next year. The ford f150 is the best selling vehicle of all types in the US, and pickup trucks more often then not are purchased by conservatives.

duxup 4y ago
That actually seems likely to you?
jeffbee 4y ago
And there is no evidence whatsoever that the cyber truck exists as a mass production vehicle.
- ascagnel_ 4y ago
  Meanwhile, Ford announced in April that they were aiming to produce 150,000 F-150s by the end of 2022 (up from a 40k target). I'm bearish on Tesla overall, since the traditional automakers are trying to pivot to EVs. The EV market will grow at Tesla's expense.
nickthegreek 4y ago
And conservatives will buy the ford f150 or lightning. I get a chuckle even thinking about the people in my rural hometown bummin around in a cybertruck. They’re is no way those good ol boys would be clownin around in that thing.
- rsynnott 4y ago
  I’m really confused who the target market is for that thing. It doesn’t seem practical for a work vehicle, and I assume people who drive pickup trucks for non-work purposes are looking for a certain, probably-not-that, aesthetic.
  - nickthegreek 4y ago

mynameishere 4y ago

Man, you'd think the big story would be the infiltration and associated censorship of Twitter via the three letter agencies of the government. That seems interesting, doesn't it? When the FBI is guiding Twitter's content policy at some point the defense that this "isn't a first Amendment issue because it's a private corporation blah blah" starts to fall apart. Instead the narrative is about how all of Musk's businesses will fail because of his changes at Twitter and how angry liberals are about it. Are liberals really that upset because the new CEO made the world's tiniest baby step toward free speech? I suspect that the FBI has its paws in all the major media organizations as well--and that this isn't really troubling to them, because they are all pretty much on the same page, in propaganda terms. But Twitter is one big comment section and it's a tougher nut.

tosc 4y ago
> world's tiniest baby step toward free speech? Do you honestly believe that we can’t speak freely in the US?
- findalex 4y ago
  When the FBI (i.e. the federal government) is asking a public company to censor you... I'd say it's getting dicey. If we don't have a free speech problem, then we have an abuse of executive powers problem - but we already knew that. One might argue Twitter didn't have to take the censorship advice from the feds but IMO they shouldn't be doing this type of lobbying adversarial to US citizens.
  - tosc 4y ago
    The federal government is free to ask for whatever it likes. It’s pretty absurd to imagine otherwise. What it can’t do is punish people for what they say. Twitter as you point out, is a business that is free to do whatever it likes, and publish whatever it likes on its website. At no point did Twitter enter into an agreement with people posting tweets about who they will be shown to. That’s not part of its business. Elon doesn’t seem to be doing anything differently. He’s using Twitter to advocate for his political views, and ban people he doesn’t like. Associating Elon with freedom of speech is a red herring. There is no connection. That said, everything that people keep claiming to be ‘censored’ is somehow public knowledge, and nobody is afraid the government is going to punish them for talking about it. The idea that freedom of speech is under threat because of anything to do with Twitter just isn’t in contact with reality.

juanbyrge 4y ago

One data point: my wife and I were set in getting a Tesla as our next car. We are now in the market for a new EV, but we both decided against Tesla due to Elon's shenanigans. We will wait for the Kia EV9 or something coming out next year.

roamerz 4y ago

I think Musks idea of making Twitter a more economically viable, open, and transparent platform for free speech was just for that. I’m sure he did that knowing that Libs would be butt hurt and that would introduce challenges to the first goal of making Twitter economically viable but kudos to him for taking the morally high road!

olalonde 4y ago

This narrative is flawed for a few reasons (and I suspect it is an instance of wishful thinking). Firstly, the stock market crash affected all companies, not just TSLA. Second, there's no evidence to suggest that Musk wants to "own the Libs" or that Democrats have actually stopped buying Tesla cars. He is simply in favor of free speech. Third, even if Musk was actually trying to "own the Libs" and it was affecting Tesla sales, any decrease in TSLA purchases by Democrats could be balanced out by an increase in purchases by Republicans.

findalex 4y ago
I'd also like to know how to tell the difference between "owning the libs" and "saying things the libs don't happen to like". I guess one implies a purely troll motive.
deleted 4y ago
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davewritescode 4y ago
> This narrative is flawed for a few reasons. Firstly, the stock market crash affected all companies, not just TSLA. TSLA has been absolutely hammered above and beyond most other stocks. There's not many companies that are down 70% off their highs and at this point TSLA has lost more than bitcoin, an asset that's currently in the middle of the biggest financial scandal since Bernie Madoff. > Second, there's no evidence to suggest that Musk wants to "own the Libs" or that Democrats have actually stopped buying Tesla cars He's publicly thrown his weight behind Republican candidates and said Democrats were bad. He's let Donald Trump back on twitter and re-platformed lots of ultra right wing folks including people who stormed the capital. Most CEOs quietly donate to the party/candidates of their choice. Some do it very quietly with PACs that don't even require disclosure. Openly advocating for specific candidates is a recipe for disaster as a major corporate leader. > He is simply in favor of free speech. I agree, free speech is great. Now explain how this isn't a PR disaster for Tesla? > Third, even if Musk was actually trying to "own the Libs" and it was affecting Tesla sales, any decrease in TSLA purchases by Democrats could be balanced out by an increase in purchases by Republicans. Read the damn article. Tesla ownership is a lot more prevalent in rich, liberal communities. The exact communities he's alienating. This should surprise absolutely nobody. Instead of taking sides in political slap fights, Musk needs to put his ego aside, shut the fuck up and take money from anyone who wants to drive a Tesla. People buy cars for a lot of reasons but one of this big reasons people buy expensive cars is because they feel it makes some sort of statement to the world about who they are. The statement a Tesla made 2 years ago was "I'm a forward thinking environmentalist" whereas today it says "I support Elon Musk".

electric_mayhem 4y ago

I have a 3, and tesla Solar with powerwalls. I bought the car in 2019 and the solar in ‘20 before Musk went full buffoon. If I were buying today, I’d buy the solar and powerwalls because they’re unbeatable value. But I would not buy a 3 today due to Musk being an embarrassment. I did buy some Mazda 3 badges for my car, though, so that’ll be nice. More importantly, I have multiple homeowners among my friends and family who want solar but won’t consider Tesla anymore because of Elon’s behvaior. They’re literally willing to spend more money on competitors worse offerings just to not give Tesla -and Musk- any of their money. Worse, I have even more car enthusiast friends- all of whom used to covet the model 3 for its performance and value proposition… who are now buying other cars just to avoid Tesla. As a tesla product owner and stockholder (bag holder, now?), the best thing Wlon can probably do for me is to step down as Tesla ceo and/or retire from the public eye. He’s single-handedly absolutely alienated what would otherwise be his strongest demographics. Probably should be the subject of a shareholder lawsuit.

davewritescode 4y ago

I don't know why any of this is surprising. I don't know anything about the personal politics of any other major automotive CEO and my guess is that it isn't by accident. These companies know their asking their customers to spend a large amount of money on their products and negative feelings towards any particular brand aren't helpful. Everyone who's ever own a business knows that money from Republicans is just as good as money from Democrats. Michael Jordan declined to throw his name behind a Democrat running for office in 1990 because "Republicans buy sneakers too". Musk thinks it's his job to influence public discourse. That's not a good thing if you're a Tesla shareholder or someone invested in one of Musks other businesses. I've been saying this forever, even on HN. Tesla is a better company without Musk running it and the board should just rip the bandaid off and move on. Musk is dishonest, distracted and unable to meet basic expectations at this point. Products are late, engineering is distracted and people are starting to realize that Tesla will never meet the expectations set by the price of its stock. The great automotive brands, even the ones NAMED after their founders are larger than any particular leader. Musk has been a great for getting Tesla where it is today, but his style of leadership isn't what you need at a company the size of Tesla today.

robomartin 4y ago
> Musk thinks it's his job to influence public discourse. To be fair, that is not what he thinks. He is after truth/facts in public discourse without undue political influence from any political camp or government agency. The reason Democrats are rattled about this is the fact that the left has behaved badly in this regard. It is the reason for which this comment will be mercilessly downvoted and flagged. The truth, sometimes, hurts. And yet, it is the truth. My standard suggestion for anyone who can remain neutral and open-minded is to imagine the opposite scenario. In this case a Twitter and media dominated by right wing politics and influence, from every single employee all the way up to government and universities. That scenario would be just as horrific and undesirable as the current status quo. It is in everyone’s interest that the masses not be subjected to undue influence by any political party, not one. That’s what Musk wants. The fact that he is being vilified is a sad reflection of a simple reality: In politics those purporting to be one thing are often the opposite. People say they are for tolerance, equity, inclusion, fairness, open-mindedness, access, etc., and yet, in real life that’s a lie. The minute someone challenges their ability to own the means of communication and messaging none of those things matter. Remarkable.

greggarious 4y ago

As much as I love to dunk on Elon, why would "alienating libs" stop people from buying Teslas? People still buy, say, BMWs, Audis, and other cars which are quite famous for only being owned by assholes ;-) PS: Also I must include an obligatory "I'm not a liberal, I'm further left than that". (Please respect my free expression and stop dichotimizing the American electorate. Kthxbye!!)

nickthegreek 4y ago
I am a liberal. I test drove a Tesla at the beginning of Covid. Loved it. I will not be buying one. I love my bmw r9t, seeing it brings me joy. No way am I spending $50k to look at a car that reminds me a Musk. Who knows how much further he will slide into the abyss.
lambic2 4y ago
I don't remember any CEO of BMW, Audi, etc. ridiculing a group of people on a daily basis because of who they voted for... The idea of spending 50-70k on a product that will make the richest man (ok 2nd richest now) in the world richer, who is essentially ridiculing/trolling you on a daily basis for your voting decision is just a no-go for a lot of people.