5 ms·

I have had trouble convincing people before, would you happen to have a link ?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lelandfe 4y ago
https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html#memsecret https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html#memsecret They refer to it as a “Memorized Secret“. The appendix, “Strength of Memorized Secrets” is informative rather than a guideline, but I would recommend quoting it too in such discussions: > composition rules, which require the user to choose passwords constructed using a mix of character types, such as at least one digit, uppercase letter, and symbol. However, analyses of breached password databases reveal that the benefit of such rules is not nearly as significant as initially thought… although the impact on usability and memorability is severe
- varenc 4y ago
  From this doc: https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html There’s also this great quote: Verifiers SHOULD NOT impose other composition rules (e.g., requiring mixtures of different character types or prohibiting consecutively repeated characters) for memorized secrets. Verifiers SHOULD NOT require memorized secrets to be changed arbitrarily (e.g., periodically). There’s other great stuff in there as well like that you should allow users to “paste” passwords and potential passwords should be checked against a list of known bad ones.
  - Bilal_io 4y ago
    Expiring passwords are the bane of my existence. My current job does that. It was originally a requirement by Microsoft and they've been recommending against it, but it catches up slowly.
    - Aeolun 4y ago
      It’s the absolute best way to make sure all your passwords are insecure garbage.
    - eastbound 4y ago
      My former company required not to use one of the last 10 passwords. So every 3 months, employees did the 11-password dance, setting the password back to the original one.
      - midasuni 4y ago
        My company (5b a year annual revenue so not small) stops you from changing your password within 2 days of changing it previously to stop that. Even the head of information security tried changing this and failed to get the change through.
        hyperman1 4y ago
        That's the point where people simply append the month number.
    - II2II 4y ago
      Expiring passwords are the bane of my existence when the period is short. I can live with changing a password once a year, but every three months is only encouraging me to pick weak passwords. Why can I accept it? I constantly see colleagues sharing passwords and constantly have to say "please don't" when they try to share their password with me. While forcing people to change their passwords doesn't eliminate the underlying problem, it does limit the scope of the damage.
      - AussieWog93 4y ago
        My old man's work used to make them change their passwords once a month. For the next 10 years, his password was a particular insulting phrase directed at the IT guys, followed by a number that would increment each time he had to change it. Got into the hundreds before he left the company.
- wkat4242 4y ago
  I know passphrases are better. But, the problem is there's much more to type every time you want to unlock your computer. And thus also many more chances to make a typo. Of course there's TouchID and Windows hello but they don't work if your laptop is closed in a dock. Or in my case a Mac mini at home. This is why I still stick to the truly random sorry password, I have no issues remembering arbitrary strings for some reason :)
  - ddejohn 4y ago
    Typing a passphrase is so much easier. You already have muscle memory for typing English (or whatever your first language) words. I can type probably type a 60 character passphrase consisting of real words at least as quickly as than I can type a 15 character password with special characters, if not faster.
    - wkat4242 4y ago
      For you maybe, not for me. I'm pretty good with arbitary strings. And I'd only use specials that don't require shift :) It's really much faster and I have RSI so I don't want to type too much. Luckily my work still allows 10-char with specials or passphrases of 16 and longer without. And don't forget passphrases only benefit in very specific situations such as hash brute forcing. Online attacks already block after a handful of attempts. Also, the incessant screen locking really annoys me, every time I step away for a coffee my PC is locked again, and this is also at home where my environment is completely secure and I'm the only one living there. I actually work in security but sometimes there is just no reason and it becomes just a barrier. In the past I used an app to jiggle the mouse every once in a while but that doesn't work anymore. I now made a digispark that does the same in hardware. :) I only use it at home though and it auto-locks my desktop when I leave the house (all my personal ones do too) If they'd just allow us to use our yubikey + pin it would be so much easier and more secure...
      - AstralStorm 4y ago
        Use a secure element with a password manager already. Specifically, certain password managers can handle yubikey as storage.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kyrra 4y ago
https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html > Verifiers SHOULD NOT impose other composition rules (e.g., requiring mixtures of different character types or prohibiting consecutively repeated characters) for memorized secrets. Verifiers SHOULD NOT require memorized secrets to be changed arbitrarily (e.g., periodically). However, verifiers SHALL force a change if there is evidence of compromise of the authenticator.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html#memsecret https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html#memsecret They refer to it as a “Memorized Secret“. The appendix, “Strength of Memorized Secrets” is informative rather than a guideline, but I would recommend quoting it too in such discussions: > composition rules, which require the user to choose passwords constructed using a mix of character types, such as at least one digit, uppercase letter, and symbol. However, analyses of breached password databases reveal that the benefit of such rules is not nearly as significant as initially thought… although the impact on usability and memorability is severe

varenc 4y ago
From this doc: https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html There’s also this great quote: Verifiers SHOULD NOT impose other composition rules (e.g., requiring mixtures of different character types or prohibiting consecutively repeated characters) for memorized secrets. Verifiers SHOULD NOT require memorized secrets to be changed arbitrarily (e.g., periodically). There’s other great stuff in there as well like that you should allow users to “paste” passwords and potential passwords should be checked against a list of known bad ones.
- Bilal_io 4y ago
  Expiring passwords are the bane of my existence. My current job does that. It was originally a requirement by Microsoft and they've been recommending against it, but it catches up slowly.
  - Aeolun 4y ago
    It’s the absolute best way to make sure all your passwords are insecure garbage.
  - eastbound 4y ago
    My former company required not to use one of the last 10 passwords. So every 3 months, employees did the 11-password dance, setting the password back to the original one.
    - midasuni 4y ago
      My company (5b a year annual revenue so not small) stops you from changing your password within 2 days of changing it previously to stop that. Even the head of information security tried changing this and failed to get the change through.
      - hyperman1 4y ago
        That's the point where people simply append the month number.
  - II2II 4y ago
    Expiring passwords are the bane of my existence when the period is short. I can live with changing a password once a year, but every three months is only encouraging me to pick weak passwords. Why can I accept it? I constantly see colleagues sharing passwords and constantly have to say "please don't" when they try to share their password with me. While forcing people to change their passwords doesn't eliminate the underlying problem, it does limit the scope of the damage.
    - AussieWog93 4y ago
      My old man's work used to make them change their passwords once a month. For the next 10 years, his password was a particular insulting phrase directed at the IT guys, followed by a number that would increment each time he had to change it. Got into the hundreds before he left the company.
wkat4242 4y ago
I know passphrases are better. But, the problem is there's much more to type every time you want to unlock your computer. And thus also many more chances to make a typo. Of course there's TouchID and Windows hello but they don't work if your laptop is closed in a dock. Or in my case a Mac mini at home. This is why I still stick to the truly random sorry password, I have no issues remembering arbitrary strings for some reason :)
- ddejohn 4y ago
  Typing a passphrase is so much easier. You already have muscle memory for typing English (or whatever your first language) words. I can type probably type a 60 character passphrase consisting of real words at least as quickly as than I can type a 15 character password with special characters, if not faster.
  - wkat4242 4y ago
    For you maybe, not for me. I'm pretty good with arbitary strings. And I'd only use specials that don't require shift :) It's really much faster and I have RSI so I don't want to type too much. Luckily my work still allows 10-char with specials or passphrases of 16 and longer without. And don't forget passphrases only benefit in very specific situations such as hash brute forcing. Online attacks already block after a handful of attempts. Also, the incessant screen locking really annoys me, every time I step away for a coffee my PC is locked again, and this is also at home where my environment is completely secure and I'm the only one living there. I actually work in security but sometimes there is just no reason and it becomes just a barrier. In the past I used an app to jiggle the mouse every once in a while but that doesn't work anymore. I now made a digispark that does the same in hardware. :) I only use it at home though and it auto-locks my desktop when I leave the house (all my personal ones do too) If they'd just allow us to use our yubikey + pin it would be so much easier and more secure...
    - AstralStorm 4y ago
      Use a secure element with a password manager already. Specifically, certain password managers can handle yubikey as storage.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kyrra 4y ago

https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html > Verifiers SHOULD NOT impose other composition rules (e.g., requiring mixtures of different character types or prohibiting consecutively repeated characters) for memorized secrets. Verifiers SHOULD NOT require memorized secrets to be changed arbitrarily (e.g., periodically). However, verifiers SHALL force a change if there is evidence of compromise of the authenticator.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]