5 ms·

She's almost definitely working with the prosecution in exchange for a deal. That's been the rumour for weeks.

dredmorbius 4y ago
Which is specifically what the Coindesk article discusses. (Note that it's a description of the agreement, rather than the full text of it directly.)
- Animats 4y ago
  Here's the full text of the agreement.[1] Those are the tough conditions you see when a federal prosecutor has a really good case. [1] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-cooperator-ftx-alamedas-caroline-ellisons-plea-agreement-inner-city-press-on-the-case https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-coop...
  - dredmorbius 4y ago
    Thanks!
eternalban 4y ago
Sure, but what does that mean in terms of protecting as yet unnamed persons connected to this saga? This promise to sing for prosecution is presumably not good news for SFB, that is understood. But SEC official names were being dragged into this when it broke via guilt by association. And that connection was via Caroline and her family. Maybe a nothing burger, but maybe there is actually some beef involved. How does this plea agreement affect that potential and alleged connection, in legal theory?
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  Jeeze, it's not some crazy conspiracy that being the first to rat out your accomplices tends to leave you way better off, it's literally intentional, to encourage turncoats.
  - eternalban 4y ago
    You misunderstand. Benefit to Caroline Ellison is self evident. That SFB is the subject of her singing is also obvious. Qs are: - was this too generous? - who else besides Caroline Ellison would benefit here now that she has her deal? (Related to first q ..)
    - rootusrootus 4y ago
      > was this too generous? She's pleading to what, seven major felonies as I recall? And there is no agreement on a reduced sentence aside from "the prosecution will ask for lesser sentences" which doesn't mean the judge is going to agree. She didn't get some kind of a sweet deal, she got the "we have enough to put you in jail until you're elderly, but if you make it easy we'll ask the judge to reduce it so middle age" agreement. They clearly have the upper hand.
      - eternalban 4y ago
        ianal. There are conflicting interpretations of the agreement. This is from coindesk: "The agreement states that if Ellison fully cooperates with the SDNY's investigation, as well as any other law enforcement agency designated by the office, she won't be further prosecuted criminally except for possible criminal tax violations with regard to the wire and commodity fraud charges that resulted from commingling funds between FTX and Alameda accounts. The deal does not guarantee that other agencies will not pursue prosecution at a later date." https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/12/22/caroline-ellison-plea-agreement-250000-bail-surrender-of-travel-documents-forfeiture-of-assets/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/12/22/caroline-elliso... Different potential charges relating to taxes are on the table but that guilty plea to seven counts of felony carry no prison time. So it is "110 to 0 years" modulo potential tax related charges, if any.
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annexrichmond 4y ago
I imagined that the prosecutors would have enough evidence without her, so that she still would have a heavy sentence. I guess time will tell.
- fathyb 4y ago
  I'm not sure. There was almost no paper trail, no accounting. Testimonies will be used to fill in the blanks and strengthen the case. She'll get a good deal.

Which is specifically what the Coindesk article discusses. (Note that it's a description of the agreement, rather than the full text of it directly.)

Animats 4y ago
Here's the full text of the agreement.[1] Those are the tough conditions you see when a federal prosecutor has a really good case. [1] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-cooperator-ftx-alamedas-caroline-ellisons-plea-agreement-inner-city-press-on-the-case https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23495436-crypto-coop...
- dredmorbius 4y ago
  Thanks!

eternalban 4y ago

Sure, but what does that mean in terms of protecting as yet unnamed persons connected to this saga? This promise to sing for prosecution is presumably not good news for SFB, that is understood. But SEC official names were being dragged into this when it broke via guilt by association. And that connection was via Caroline and her family. Maybe a nothing burger, but maybe there is actually some beef involved. How does this plea agreement affect that potential and alleged connection, in legal theory?

mrguyorama 4y ago
Jeeze, it's not some crazy conspiracy that being the first to rat out your accomplices tends to leave you way better off, it's literally intentional, to encourage turncoats.
- eternalban 4y ago
  You misunderstand. Benefit to Caroline Ellison is self evident. That SFB is the subject of her singing is also obvious. Qs are: - was this too generous? - who else besides Caroline Ellison would benefit here now that she has her deal? (Related to first q ..)
  - rootusrootus 4y ago
    > was this too generous? She's pleading to what, seven major felonies as I recall? And there is no agreement on a reduced sentence aside from "the prosecution will ask for lesser sentences" which doesn't mean the judge is going to agree. She didn't get some kind of a sweet deal, she got the "we have enough to put you in jail until you're elderly, but if you make it easy we'll ask the judge to reduce it so middle age" agreement. They clearly have the upper hand.
    - eternalban 4y ago
      ianal. There are conflicting interpretations of the agreement. This is from coindesk: "The agreement states that if Ellison fully cooperates with the SDNY's investigation, as well as any other law enforcement agency designated by the office, she won't be further prosecuted criminally except for possible criminal tax violations with regard to the wire and commodity fraud charges that resulted from commingling funds between FTX and Alameda accounts. The deal does not guarantee that other agencies will not pursue prosecution at a later date." https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/12/22/caroline-ellison-plea-agreement-250000-bail-surrender-of-travel-documents-forfeiture-of-assets/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/12/22/caroline-elliso... Different potential charges relating to taxes are on the table but that guilty plea to seven counts of felony carry no prison time. So it is "110 to 0 years" modulo potential tax related charges, if any.

deleted 4y ago

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annexrichmond 4y ago

I imagined that the prosecutors would have enough evidence without her, so that she still would have a heavy sentence. I guess time will tell.

fathyb 4y ago
I'm not sure. There was almost no paper trail, no accounting. Testimonies will be used to fill in the blanks and strengthen the case. She'll get a good deal.