3 ms·

What's wrong about it? Unless you also "defund the police", that is. If law enforcement is well-funded and works well - which isn't all that expensive or hard o

What's wrong about it? Unless you also "defund the police", that is. If law enforcement is well-funded and works well - which isn't all that expensive or hard on a national scale - than what's the problem about extreme inequality?

wizofaus 4y ago
If we were a species that evolved where extreme inequality made sense, we'd probably be fine with it. But we aren't - not even close. We have strong notions of fairness and acting in the best interests of society as a whole, that enable us to cooperate effectively etc. Extreme inequality eats away at what has made us successful as a species.
mschuster91 4y ago
> If law enforcement is well-funded and works well - which isn't all that expensive or hard on a national scale - than what's the problem about extreme inequality? Law enforcement in the US is insanely well funded. The NYPD, for example, has 5 billion dollars of budget for 50k employees and serves about 8.8 million citizens. In contrast, in the German state of Bavaria, a budget of 3.8 billion euros [1] supports 45.000 employees and 13 million people. And yet, Bavaria has extremely low crime rates (the lowest in Germany with ~3700/100k people [2]), and the police stats could be even better if cops weren't forced to waste time on marijuana bullshit... while in New York, headlines referring to a lack of safety are more or less the norm [3]. The most interesting thing to me is: in absolute numbers, Bavaria had 508.000 crime reports filed in 2021 (cleaned up for cases of being in Germany unlawfully). New York reports 95.000 crimes in 2021... a sixth of the Bavarian absolute case count. What is the cause of this difference, and why is public perception of safety so immensely different? [1] https://www.stmfh.bayern.de/haushalt/staatshaushalt_2019/haushaltsplan/epl03.pdf https://www.stmfh.bayern.de/haushalt/staatshaushalt_2019/hau... (page 5, table E, line "Polizei") [2] https://www.tvmainfranken.de/auch-dank-wuerzburg-und-aschaffenburg-niedrigste-kriminalbelastung-in-bayern-seit-ueber-vier-jahrzehnten-282102/ https://www.tvmainfranken.de/auch-dank-wuerzburg-und-aschaff... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-is-nyc-safe-crime-stat-reality/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-is-nyc-safe-crime-st... [4] https://www.newsweek.com/new-york-city-most-dangerous-year-crime-1990-compared-2022-1750454 https://www.newsweek.com/new-york-city-most-dangerous-year-c...
- anovikov 4y ago
  Something is wrong here, 500M for 45K people means ~850 euros per month per employee which is less than German minimum wage (1584 eur per month). Plain mistake. $100K per year per employee in NYC sounds about right: around half are probably salaries plus payroll tax on them, resulting in just-over-poverty wage for low level employees and barely-middle-class for the higher ups; and the other half for supplies, building maintenance, etc.
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    > Something is wrong here, 500M for 45K people means ~850 euros per month per employee which is less than German minimum wage (1584 eur per month). Plain mistake. Indeed. I don't know what our precious Interior Minister has been talking about, chances are he simply once again blasted bullshit towards the press and no one called him out as well... I dug a bit in the government's budget plan and updated the figures. Still, we spend ~1.2 billion (assuming 1:1 exchange rate) less than the US, with five million more citizens that are served by the cops - so there is still a marked difference.
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  The difference is probably less poor and desperately poor people.

wizofaus 4y ago

If we were a species that evolved where extreme inequality made sense, we'd probably be fine with it. But we aren't - not even close. We have strong notions of fairness and acting in the best interests of society as a whole, that enable us to cooperate effectively etc. Extreme inequality eats away at what has made us successful as a species.

mschuster91 4y ago

> If law enforcement is well-funded and works well - which isn't all that expensive or hard on a national scale - than what's the problem about extreme inequality? Law enforcement in the US is insanely well funded. The NYPD, for example, has 5 billion dollars of budget for 50k employees and serves about 8.8 million citizens. In contrast, in the German state of Bavaria, a budget of 3.8 billion euros [1] supports 45.000 employees and 13 million people. And yet, Bavaria has extremely low crime rates (the lowest in Germany with ~3700/100k people [2]), and the police stats could be even better if cops weren't forced to waste time on marijuana bullshit... while in New York, headlines referring to a lack of safety are more or less the norm [3]. The most interesting thing to me is: in absolute numbers, Bavaria had 508.000 crime reports filed in 2021 (cleaned up for cases of being in Germany unlawfully). New York reports 95.000 crimes in 2021... a sixth of the Bavarian absolute case count. What is the cause of this difference, and why is public perception of safety so immensely different? [1] https://www.stmfh.bayern.de/haushalt/staatshaushalt_2019/haushaltsplan/epl03.pdf https://www.stmfh.bayern.de/haushalt/staatshaushalt_2019/hau... (page 5, table E, line "Polizei") [2] https://www.tvmainfranken.de/auch-dank-wuerzburg-und-aschaffenburg-niedrigste-kriminalbelastung-in-bayern-seit-ueber-vier-jahrzehnten-282102/ https://www.tvmainfranken.de/auch-dank-wuerzburg-und-aschaff... [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-is-nyc-safe-crime-stat-reality/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-is-nyc-safe-crime-st... [4] https://www.newsweek.com/new-york-city-most-dangerous-year-crime-1990-compared-2022-1750454 https://www.newsweek.com/new-york-city-most-dangerous-year-c...

anovikov 4y ago
Something is wrong here, 500M for 45K people means ~850 euros per month per employee which is less than German minimum wage (1584 eur per month). Plain mistake. $100K per year per employee in NYC sounds about right: around half are probably salaries plus payroll tax on them, resulting in just-over-poverty wage for low level employees and barely-middle-class for the higher ups; and the other half for supplies, building maintenance, etc.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  > Something is wrong here, 500M for 45K people means ~850 euros per month per employee which is less than German minimum wage (1584 eur per month). Plain mistake. Indeed. I don't know what our precious Interior Minister has been talking about, chances are he simply once again blasted bullshit towards the press and no one called him out as well... I dug a bit in the government's budget plan and updated the figures. Still, we spend ~1.2 billion (assuming 1:1 exchange rate) less than the US, with five million more citizens that are served by the cops - so there is still a marked difference.
SyzygistSix 4y ago
The difference is probably less poor and desperately poor people.