8 ms·
110 years! I wonder how many she'll get out of that for being the first out of the woodwork.
by moab 4y ago
110 years! I wonder how many she'll get out of that for being the first out of the woodwork.
- tptacek 4y agoThe "maximum" sentence here isn't even a theoretical maximum; it's just what happens if you take the statutory limit on what could be sentenced in the worst possible combination of circumstances, and it assumes that charges don't group or get served concurrently. It's annoying that they cite this number at all, because it simply has no bearing as to how things get sentenced in reality.
- tiahura 4y agoIsn’t the size of the fraud one of the major factors in the guidelines? If so, it may not be 110 years, but it’s got to be a big number?
- mikeyouse 4y agoThe number does indeed get larger with bigger losses - but most of the charges also have statutory maximums (e.g. 20yrs for wire fraud) and they'll almost certainly be served concurrently. With this level of fraud a sentence approaching 10 years might be in play, but we'll have to see what the prosecutors say.
- agotterer 4y agoElizabeth Holmes was sentenced to 11 years and she didn’t steal any money for personal gain. Madoff was sentenced to 150 years. Based on what we know so far about Caroline’s misuse (abuse) of funds and possible mass market manipulation all of which has resulted in billions of dollars in investor losses. 10 years in this case seems light, no?
- random314 4y agoElizabeth did use the money for personal gain, to sponsor an extremely lavish lifestyle and billing luxury home rental expenses,chartered flights, security details and private investigators to the Theranos account. Sunny Balwani, otoh, didn't benefit, wasn't the CEO, didn't make most of the false statements and got a heavier sentence.
- jcampbell1 4y agoShe was found not guilty of defrauding patients. He was guilty on all accounts.
- random314 4y agoIt's difficult for me to see how Balwani was defrauding patients but Holmes wasn't.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y agoDifferent juries and lawyers?
- csomar 4y agoAh, justice in America.
- vkou 4y agoHis work was in operations, hers was in investor schmoozing.
- random314 4y agoShe was doing both, including selling to Walgreens where the patient fraud happened.
- ceejayoz 4y agoHolmes didn’t plead guilty and cooperate.
- pyuser583 4y agoNeither Madoff nor Holmes took deals.
- humanistbot 4y agoGuidelines are just that, guidelines. Judges have a lot of latitude.
- forrestthewoods 4y agoIncluding going above the guidelines.
- Rebelgecko 4y agoYou can look up the formula in the federal sentencing guidelines. IIRC the scale of sentencing points to dollars is sorta-logarithmic
- crystaln 4y agoIt's how they make an intimidating threat to push for cooperation and look maximally generous when the sentence is reduced. Makes perfect sense.
- rosnd 4y agoThat doesn't make any sense, everyone on the receiving end of these threats has a lawyer. Even the shittiest public defender will translate this for you. These numbers exist solely for the audiences at home.
- SturgeonsLaw 4y agoSame with the "street value" they cite in drug busts. Sure, that guy with 100kg of coke is going to be selling it in little 1g baggies.
- rosnd 4y agoWell, that's a lie which at times has real impact on trial outcomes. I wouldn't really put it in the same category.
- nradov 4y agoSentences for federal drug crimes are based on substance weight, not value.
- rosnd 4y agoYes, but federal drug crimes are not the only kind of drug crimes.
- dragonwriter 4y ago> Sentences for federal drug crimes are based on substance weight, not value. Depends on which federal drug crimes. The drug kingpin law is based on $, not weight.
- 4y ago
- dragonwriter 4y ago> The "maximum" sentence here isn't even a theoretical maximum; Yes, it is. > it's just what happens if you take the statutory limit on what could be sentenced in the worst possible combination of circumstances, and it assumes that charges don't group or get served concurrently. Which is, in fact, the theoretical maximum, because while the Sentencing Guidelines call for grouping and concurrent sentences in certain circumstances, the Supreme Court has ruled that the Guidelines are, as the name suggests, more what you'd call “guidelines” than actual rules, and judges are free to depart from them, in either direction, within the mininimum and maximum sentences, if any [0], prescribed for each crime in its own statute. It’s true that most sentences will conform to the Guidelines, but the Guidelines rules do not set outer boundaries on what is possible. [0] some crimes have statutory minimums, most have statutory maximums, but some federal crimes specify only imprisonment for “any term of years”.
- Moissanite 4y ago> more what you'd call “guidelines” than actual rules I look forward to a blog on "The Pirates Code as applied to criminal prosecution in the US." I mean, it is already clear that you can avoid punishment by producing enough pieces of eight, so I wonder what other similarities there are.
- jcampbell1 4y agoMy guess is she will get 10. 30 for the crimes, less 10 for being a first time offender and not the ring leader and less 10 for cooperation and contrition.
- bushbaba 4y agoAnd gets out after 5 years for “good behavior”.
- jcampbell1 4y agoThis is federal so it is statutory at 54 days per year max.
- nixgeek 4y agoFederal sentences come with a maximum of 54 days per year [1] of good time credit, and there is no parole when serving federal time. This all but guarantees that a 10 year sentence will result in 102 months of incarceration and release no earlier than that. [1] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/02/11/2022-02876/good-conduct-time-credit-under-the-first-step-act https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2022/02/11/2022-02...
- dragonwriter 4y ago> Federal sentences come with a maximum of 54 days per year [1] of good time credit, and there is no parole when serving federal time. Right, to the extent a federal convict has supervised release time, its not “I got out early from my prison sentence” but “I was sentenced to supervised release on top of my prison sentence.”
- A_D_E_P_T 4y agoLook up the recent case of Aaron Singerman. He was sentenced to five years, but was out in ten months. Didn't spend a single Christmas behind bars. Now, this was presumably for some form of cooperation, and the circumstances are unclear -- but it's just not true that the Feds won't let you out early if they feel like it.
- rippercushions 4y ago110 years, fine of up to 2x the "pecuniary gain" of the fraud, and last but certainly not least, a "$100 mandatory special assessment" for each of the seven counts. Gotta pay for those Federal investigators somehow! Also, I like how the they're very clear that restitution must be made as "a sum of money in United States currency", as opposed to, say, FTT tokens or Bored Ape NFTs. However, the section on forfeiting the proceeds of the crime does explicitly include "property including but not limited to" USD, meaning the Feds may end up with a pile of shitcoins and monkey JPGs after all!
- csomar 4y agoThe token will definitively be bid at. The fact that they are being sold on a US government auction will give them some value. Drama never ends in crypto land.
- stevenwoo 4y agoDavid Friehling was up for 100 years for the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme but because of cooperation did not serve any time in prison IIRC, just supervised release or home detention.