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>In those days, we would usually read the manual when we needed to dig past a surface-level understanding of how things work. The manuals are dry and dense, but

>In those days, we would usually read the manual when we needed to dig past a surface-level understanding of how things work. The manuals are dry and dense, but they're much easier to read with modern niceties like "Ctrl+F". Then, after that didn't work, we had to go to find the weird bearded guy that didn't like to talk to people, but knew everything. He would usually tell you the answer, but in a condescending way that made you understand that you only came to him in "emergencies" and that you were kind of stupid for asking an "obvious" question. Actually, now that I think of it, that is stackoverflow now! Thank god message boards started taking off! ... but sadly, then the "real" Internet came and killed it. :-(

clarge1120 4y ago
Before the real internet came and killed the forums, the weird bearded guy would lurk on the forums. He's the guy who makes you answer general questions like, "Why would you want to do that?" "What's this for?" "Did you try searching before asking such a stupid question?"
- plastiquebeech 4y ago
  Those are the same questions that people ask on SO, although the respondents aren't exclusively men with beards. OP bemoaned how people on StackOverflow would tell you not to do what you're asking about. Reference material is not the cause of that "weird bearded guy" problem, but it is one possible solution. We're talking about software developers, not wizards. It's not like you have to offer a dram of blood and draw a pentagram with salt before you approach the ancient grimoires.
  - mhuffman 4y ago
    >We're talking about software developers, not wizards. It's not like you have to offer a dram of blood and draw a pentagram with salt before you approach the ancient grimoires. Back then, it seemed a lot like that!
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    > Those are the same questions that people ask on SO On the good threads that become helpful, yeah. On most of it, no, those are not the questions people ask there. They will focus on unrelated marginal issues, try to refuse to answer the question, just assume the reason the person is doing it (even when explicitly told on the question), and just throw wrong answers on the wall to see if they stick. (Granted, throwing things on the wall is a useful way to answer some questions, but not all.) It's good that Google rewards the first kind of thread, but the second one is what sends people away from the platform.
    - ryandrake 4y ago
      I've seen SO answerers who don't know the answer to a question try to force it into an "X-Y problem" and steer it until the question turned into something they could answer. Q: "I'm trying to configure Foo to produce Bar, but it's giving me this error!" A1: "What are you really trying to do?" [Unsaid: I don't know how to produce Bar either] A2: "You should not be trying to produce Bar. Instead you should produce Baz. I know how to do that--follow the following steps..." A3: "Producing Bar will not solve what I imagine your goal is. In the general case, you may need to produce many different results, which I would rather answer about..." Q: "Uhh, thanks everyone, but I'm just trying to configure Foo to produce Bar."
      - mhuffman 4y ago
        My favorite is when they do that, then take the incorrect made-up answer to a question that was not asked to close the question due to: Duplicate of..., Off-topic because..., Needs details or clarity, Needs more focus and Opinion-based ... Many such cases!
        theGnuMe 4y ago
        ha! I see this in the dev/qa dynamic all the time. It also happens between product to dev/qa as well.
      - spacemadness 4y ago
        There is so much imposter syndrome and insecurity behind those type of answers. I wish we all had better filters online when our fragile egos go into defensive mode.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Even if they aren’t literally weird old men with beards who want to make you feel bad for bothering them, you know deep inside there lurks one. (Jk - also, have been the cranky one, even if I didn’t have a beard at the time).
- mhuffman 4y ago
  lol, this was the pre-Internet problem. It usually went like this... >"Why would you want to do that?" because it seems like the right thing to do? Is there a better way. >"What's this for?" the boss wants it >"Did you try searching before asking such a stupid question?" I read the manual and thought about it a lot (remember this was pre-Internet) so, there was a lot of "rough" hand-holding to learn the ropes for edge cases.

clarge1120 4y ago

Before the real internet came and killed the forums, the weird bearded guy would lurk on the forums. He's the guy who makes you answer general questions like, "Why would you want to do that?" "What's this for?" "Did you try searching before asking such a stupid question?"

plastiquebeech 4y ago
Those are the same questions that people ask on SO, although the respondents aren't exclusively men with beards. OP bemoaned how people on StackOverflow would tell you not to do what you're asking about. Reference material is not the cause of that "weird bearded guy" problem, but it is one possible solution. We're talking about software developers, not wizards. It's not like you have to offer a dram of blood and draw a pentagram with salt before you approach the ancient grimoires.
- mhuffman 4y ago
  >We're talking about software developers, not wizards. It's not like you have to offer a dram of blood and draw a pentagram with salt before you approach the ancient grimoires. Back then, it seemed a lot like that!
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  > Those are the same questions that people ask on SO On the good threads that become helpful, yeah. On most of it, no, those are not the questions people ask there. They will focus on unrelated marginal issues, try to refuse to answer the question, just assume the reason the person is doing it (even when explicitly told on the question), and just throw wrong answers on the wall to see if they stick. (Granted, throwing things on the wall is a useful way to answer some questions, but not all.) It's good that Google rewards the first kind of thread, but the second one is what sends people away from the platform.
  - ryandrake 4y ago
    I've seen SO answerers who don't know the answer to a question try to force it into an "X-Y problem" and steer it until the question turned into something they could answer. Q: "I'm trying to configure Foo to produce Bar, but it's giving me this error!" A1: "What are you really trying to do?" [Unsaid: I don't know how to produce Bar either] A2: "You should not be trying to produce Bar. Instead you should produce Baz. I know how to do that--follow the following steps..." A3: "Producing Bar will not solve what I imagine your goal is. In the general case, you may need to produce many different results, which I would rather answer about..." Q: "Uhh, thanks everyone, but I'm just trying to configure Foo to produce Bar."
    - mhuffman 4y ago
      My favorite is when they do that, then take the incorrect made-up answer to a question that was not asked to close the question due to: Duplicate of..., Off-topic because..., Needs details or clarity, Needs more focus and Opinion-based ... Many such cases!
      - theGnuMe 4y ago
        ha! I see this in the dev/qa dynamic all the time. It also happens between product to dev/qa as well.
    - spacemadness 4y ago
      There is so much imposter syndrome and insecurity behind those type of answers. I wish we all had better filters online when our fragile egos go into defensive mode.
- lazide 4y ago
  Even if they aren’t literally weird old men with beards who want to make you feel bad for bothering them, you know deep inside there lurks one. (Jk - also, have been the cranky one, even if I didn’t have a beard at the time).
mhuffman 4y ago
lol, this was the pre-Internet problem. It usually went like this... >"Why would you want to do that?" because it seems like the right thing to do? Is there a better way. >"What's this for?" the boss wants it >"Did you try searching before asking such a stupid question?" I read the manual and thought about it a lot (remember this was pre-Internet) so, there was a lot of "rough" hand-holding to learn the ropes for edge cases.