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> Although I developed the game mostly on my Mac, during development Apple invented this thing called “Notarization” where if you run any app on a new version o

> Although I developed the game mostly on my Mac, during development Apple invented this thing called “Notarization” where if you run any app on a new version of MacOS, it'll make a network request to Apple to ask if the app's developer pays Apple a yearly fee. If the developer does not pay Apple a yearly fee, MacOS will pop up a dialog strongly implying the app is a virus and refuse to start it. > For this reason, Windows will be the first and maybe only release platform for this game. this seems like the wrong answer to the (arguably legitimate) concern posed. the first and maybe only release platform for this game, based on the reasoning, should have been Linux. It's not like Microsoft can't decide to arbitrarily force exe's to phone home for "security" reasons, but good luck getting the Linux kernel, or any distro, to do that. I'm 100% convinced that Linux will be the way all software will be preserved in the future; Proton will take care of windows exe's and VM's will take care of Macs, and a deterministic OS like NixOS will let you define exactly what any piece of software needs to build and run, forever. The incentives just line up.

ezfe 4y ago
Also the fact that macOS doesn't actually block unnotarized software...Many programs are un-notarized and just need to give the user the 1 step instruction to bypass it
- pmarreck 4y ago
  Yes, and I also never felt the macOS warning about it "strongly suggested it was a virus." That was pretty much hyperbole. And I could also argue that Apple expecting devs to pay a nominal fee to get their app officially code-signed creates a barrier to entry for bad actors who are likely to not want (or be unable to afford) to pay such a fee, especially when that simultaneously gives control to Apple to block the malicious code en-masse once it is discovered.
- richrichardsson 4y ago
  Also the fact that you only need to pay the £99 fee once; after the executable is signed, notarised and stapled, that's it. I think there might be a network request if the executable hasn't been stapled, but it's only to check that it has been notarised in the past, it doesn't check for an active Developer Subscription. At least this is my understanding of the situation, I would be happy to be corrected if any of that is wrong.
  - mike_hearn 4y ago
    Also - you have to sign code on Windows too! If you don't then Edge will try as hard as possible to stop the user opening it, and AV scanners can get very curious about what you're doing. Maybe Steam doesn't care if your game is signed? I didn't quite follow the logic around notarization either. Steam imposes more requirements and takes a slice of revenue! Notarization is a lot cheaper and faster than that. But I guess the idea is that Steam gives you features, whereas notarization is just a tax.
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
If Proton is accepted as the solution to Linux gaming what is the reason for a developer to build for Linux over Windows? Funnily enough there are parallels with that to why Apple didn’t want Flash on iOS. If you could make it in Flash and ship to both why code an iOS app. Same thing, zero reason to make a native Linux build while that works fine.
- pmarreck 4y ago
  It's a good point. Turns out that the Windows API is more stable than whatever Linux offers; I have multiple games now that have native Linux versions on Steam but whose Windows versions running under Proton are simply less buggy (and also synchronize cloud saves with my pure-Windows machine).
- steeleduncan 4y ago
  A native Linux build is still better performance than Proton, so with the popularity of Steam Deck it is worth the effort recompiling for Linux for higher performance games.
- themagician 4y ago
  Initially, Apple actually looked at an iOS version of Flash. This was around 2009/2010 IIRC. There were special dev iPhones that ran Flash. Adobe didn’t want to optimize it because they thought the iPhone would fail. Apple thought the performance was garbage and the communication mostly ended. I got to play with one for a few days and the performance was terrible. Even simple games lagged and the touch points were a disaster.
  - whywhywhywhy 4y ago
    I was heavy working in Flash around this time, I remember Apple saying the performance of Flash was too bad to consider using on iPhone and I remember around 3 months later the Mac version of Flash magically ran 4 times better when for years and years it always ran a lot slower than Windows and Adobe pretended there was nothing they could do about it.

ezfe 4y ago

Also the fact that macOS doesn't actually block unnotarized software...Many programs are un-notarized and just need to give the user the 1 step instruction to bypass it

pmarreck 4y ago
Yes, and I also never felt the macOS warning about it "strongly suggested it was a virus." That was pretty much hyperbole. And I could also argue that Apple expecting devs to pay a nominal fee to get their app officially code-signed creates a barrier to entry for bad actors who are likely to not want (or be unable to afford) to pay such a fee, especially when that simultaneously gives control to Apple to block the malicious code en-masse once it is discovered.
richrichardsson 4y ago
Also the fact that you only need to pay the £99 fee once; after the executable is signed, notarised and stapled, that's it. I think there might be a network request if the executable hasn't been stapled, but it's only to check that it has been notarised in the past, it doesn't check for an active Developer Subscription. At least this is my understanding of the situation, I would be happy to be corrected if any of that is wrong.
- mike_hearn 4y ago
  Also - you have to sign code on Windows too! If you don't then Edge will try as hard as possible to stop the user opening it, and AV scanners can get very curious about what you're doing. Maybe Steam doesn't care if your game is signed? I didn't quite follow the logic around notarization either. Steam imposes more requirements and takes a slice of revenue! Notarization is a lot cheaper and faster than that. But I guess the idea is that Steam gives you features, whereas notarization is just a tax.

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

If Proton is accepted as the solution to Linux gaming what is the reason for a developer to build for Linux over Windows? Funnily enough there are parallels with that to why Apple didn’t want Flash on iOS. If you could make it in Flash and ship to both why code an iOS app. Same thing, zero reason to make a native Linux build while that works fine.

pmarreck 4y ago
It's a good point. Turns out that the Windows API is more stable than whatever Linux offers; I have multiple games now that have native Linux versions on Steam but whose Windows versions running under Proton are simply less buggy (and also synchronize cloud saves with my pure-Windows machine).
steeleduncan 4y ago
A native Linux build is still better performance than Proton, so with the popularity of Steam Deck it is worth the effort recompiling for Linux for higher performance games.
themagician 4y ago
Initially, Apple actually looked at an iOS version of Flash. This was around 2009/2010 IIRC. There were special dev iPhones that ran Flash. Adobe didn’t want to optimize it because they thought the iPhone would fail. Apple thought the performance was garbage and the communication mostly ended. I got to play with one for a few days and the performance was terrible. Even simple games lagged and the touch points were a disaster.
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  I was heavy working in Flash around this time, I remember Apple saying the performance of Flash was too bad to consider using on iPhone and I remember around 3 months later the Mac version of Flash magically ran 4 times better when for years and years it always ran a lot slower than Windows and Adobe pretended there was nothing they could do about it.